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U.S. Senators Ask Apple Why VPN Apps Were Removed From China App Store

cube said:
Apple has a monopoly on the DISTRIBUTION of iOS apps.

Google has an EFFECTIVE monopoly on WEB searches.
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So what? It’s not remotely illegal for Apple to decide how it’s own product works. The only possible point at which anti-trust law might apply to the App Store would be if Apple was at or near 100% of the smartphone market. Since it’s not even close it doesn’t matter whether iOS allows side loading because you, as the consumer, are 100% free to buy a competitors product. If you don’t like Apples approach to App Store management you can buy an Android phone, meaning it’s NOT A MONOPOLY.

No matter how many times you repeat your incorrect claim it will still be incorrect (and illogical).
 
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currocj said:
So you and Apple support the free speech crushing laws in China and that's fine? China has an abysmal human rights record.
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Oh here we go, the SJW crowd are finally coming in.
Go check human rights violations in the US first before judging China.
And if these US senators really cared about the free speech of Chinese people, why aren’t they talking to China? Are you suggesting a publicly traded business like Apple to break a country’s regulation?

Tim Cook is gay, yet Apple sells iPhones in Saudi Arabia. No noise on that?
 
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Sasparilla said:
Sen Cruz on the other hand voted to let our ISP's monitor (and sell) our internet data shortly after the current administration got into office (1st big thing they did). JMHO...
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ISPs have been allowed to sell your data since the days of SLIP/PPP. You young people really have no idea how the internet really works.
 
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Krizoitz said:
So what? It’s not remotely illegal for Apple to decide how it’s own product works. The only possible point at which anti-trust law might apply to the App Store would be if Apple was at or near 100% of the smartphone market. Since it’s not even close it doesn’t matter whether iOS allows side loading because you, as the consumer, are 100% free to buy a competitors product. If you don’t like Apples approach to App Store management you can buy an Android phone, meaning it’s NOT A MONOPOLY.

No matter how many times you repeat your incorrect claim it will still be incorrect (and illogical).
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It is a monopoly, similar in style to when coffee machine makers sue companies making compatible capsules because they are protected by a patent.
 
currocj said:
People? You mean both democrats and republicans? 90+% of the vote? I bet you're a democrat and now you are ripping on democrats? Rethink your argument.
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Yes, people. Who else votes? Animals?
Rethink your point.
 
currocj said:
This isn't about appeasing shareholders, it's about doing what is right. Since when is upholding the law of a corrupt and oppressive government Apple's duty?
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I'd rather have Xi as president than Trump. And I'd rather live in China than in US. But that's just me.
I have been to China numerous times and it's extremely different than what western media says, especially American media.
 
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Number-Six said:
I see a lot of people making statements like this and it always strikes me as quite odd so I have a question: who do you think your "government" is made up of? Isn't it your brothers/sisters/parents/children/neighbours, basically?
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Not now, and maybe not ever. If you want to know who sets government policy follow the money. A few oddballs are in office who actually care about individual as opposed to corporate rights but they are far too few to do more than make ineffectual noise.
 
Piggie said:
So if the rules of THAT land said images of child abuse was fine, then you would expect Apple to support this and not remove any such images as they are ok in THAT country where they are selling their phones?
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Your argument is flawed.
You're comparing doing something illegal in a country with preventing someone else doing something legal in a country.

In your example, it would be legal for Apple to remove such images and as such I would expect them to.
In this example, it would be illegal for Apple to distribute VPN and as such I would not expect them to.


So fixing your argument:
If a country *required* Apple to contribute to child abuse then I would expect them to stop doing business in that country. I would still not expect them to break local laws. (Because that would just lead to them being forced to do business there, anyway, plus put Apple employees at risk of prosecution.)

However, stopping to sell iPhones in China would do zero to improve access to the free internet in China. Local manufacturers would just fill the gap and certainly only offer less privacy.
 
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currocj said:
So you and Apple support the free speech crushing laws in China and that's fine? China has an abysmal human rights record.
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What on earth provokes you to think that? I simply stated an indisputable fact. Furthermore I've 15 years experience in China so please don't assume you understand my feelings, or those of Apple executives for that matter. When you are in the country you obey the law.
 
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nnoble said:
Simple answer: It's the law in China. These senators must know that.
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So acquiescing to authoritarian law in the pursuit of market share and money makes it OK? I don't think so, especially when it means shutting down free speech, something that as we all know, Apple champions everywhere else. There's also real national security consequences to our undercover personnel by not having VPN access through apps. I guess they won't be using iPhones anymore, if they were.

Other businesses took a stand on principle, Google being one of them. And Google lost a lot of money from search when they pulled out of mainland China (they do operate in Hong Kong and Taiwan). So they've effectively been blocked. Facebook has also been blocked.

Just because China rules their internet with an iron fist doesn't mean Apple has to play along.
 
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...and say they are "concerned that Apple may be enabling the Chinese government's censorship and surveillance of the internet".
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Dear US Congressmen, please focus on issues IN THE UNITED STATES, not in China.

Signed,
US Citizen
 
The 2 senators would would be much more believable if they were to support an arms embargo against all countries with human rights record like China or worse.

Just for starters.
 
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I don't think people realize just how easy it is to get a VPN in China despite all the crackdowns. China is a one party system, but it is far from all controlling at the micro level. Sure, they control things from a macro level, but it is relatively easy for teenagers to get a VPN.
 
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Companies and politicians need more courage. It is really sad how our world and society developed into an Orwellian 1984, and today most western governments are longing to copy China's surveillance, instead of promoting values and free speech.
 
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x0vash0x said:
I don't think people realize just how easy it is to get a VPN in China despite all the crackdowns. China is a one party system, but it is far from all controlling at the micro level. Sure, they control things from a macro level, but it is relatively easy for teenagers to get a VPN.
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For iOS without using the Apple Appstore?
 
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x0vash0x said:
I don't think people realize just how easy it is to get a VPN in China despite all the crackdowns. China is a one party system, but it is far from all controlling at the micro level. Sure, they control things from a macro level, but it is relatively easy for teenagers to get a VPN.
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AFAIK they blog new services on a weekly basis. Certainly fare from easy to maintain a stable connection, not to mention the money spend on foreign services.
Also Russia outlawed VPNs or so - however, AFAICS they do not block connections to abroad, but only prevent local VPNs to be run. So people can still SSH and VPN out of Russia back home. So basically they harm local IT service business (VPN) and thus mostly local people.
 
Are these the same legislators who want to insist Apple include backdoor encryption in iOS so "authorized government agencies" can access everything on a person's device? Ted Cruz tried to force Apple to develop software to crack users encryption after the San Bernardino shooting. Not really seeing the difference. If they had their way, Apple would be forced into the same choice in the U.S. Either offer a crippled product that the government has unfettered access to or pull the product.

Yes, I do realize China is much more harsh in its treatment of its citizens than the United States, but the point is that can change either way. Apple either provides products that protect the privacy of its users from government intrusion or it doesn't. These hypocritical legislators can't hide behind the argument that "we would never abuse that power so we should be trusted with the keys" when we all know rogue individuals exist in every administration who would love to tap into a treasure trove of personal information.

Apple did the best it can do in the situation. They can't provide software that is illegal within the sovereign country its users reside in, but better to pull it altogether than comply with an order to provide a backdoor so China (or any government) can listen in on private conversations or access private documents.
 
These guys know exactly the reason why Apple did it (it is a business decision to secure billions in revenue - plain and simple) and to say that they are hypocritical in questioning Apple's decision is an understatement to say the least. This is just a way for them to get some press. What these guys should be working on is legislation that will actually help the country that they represent and were elected to serve. This Apple issue doesn't serve anyone's interest other than their own for self-promotion.
 
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rusty2192 said:
So can people in China still set up a VPN manually in settings? I’m assuming the apps just made it easier to set up?
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Individuals can still use VPNs, but it's kind of a grey area. Reportedly, China is looking to ban all individual VPN access in early 2018, so their demand from Apple makes those reports appear to have validity. It's widely known and blogged that individuals who have used VPNs in the last year or two, say on their phone, will all of a sudden find their phone service deactivated.

Note that businesses can and do use VPNs in China, since they need to in order to conduct business. But companies must still receive approval from China in order to use them.
 
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