If the US Government doesn't like what Apple and others do to legally ] avoid paying taxes, they need to do something about those laws, don't they? How can you fault a company for doing what you allow them too?
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U.S. Senators Claim Apple Has Avoided Paying Billions in U.S. Income Taxes Ahead of Tim Cook Testimony
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OK, let's get this "legally" nonsense out of the way. Apple is exploiting a loophole.
It reminds me of my friend's mom who is "legally" blind. She does not have a drivers license, but she does have a handicap placard and uses it quite often just for the sole purpose of getting a more favorable parking spot. Is what she is doing legal? Yes. Is it fair to others who are handicap and now have to park further because of one less handicap spot? No!
Government is to blame, it happens world wide. Politicians are lobbied to pass laws that allow loop holes, they then get outraged by companies who weren't supposed to use the holes for their advantage!
I mean come on, it's so hypocritical for anyone in politics to slander Apple, especially when they provide so many jobs. It's companies like google who structure their employees (what little they have) to avoid even reasonable taxes. They get away with less than 1% corporation tax in the UK! I mean they just don't give anything back.
Close the loop holes, stop taking back handers and you might get some sympathy. These huge companies need to be taxed like everyone else. I personally think there should be tax breaks for those who employ the most people and pay a fair wage to them also. Close the loops please.
I mean come on, it's so hypocritical for anyone in politics to slander Apple, especially when they provide so many jobs. It's companies like google who structure their employees (what little they have) to avoid even reasonable taxes. They get away with less than 1% corporation tax in the UK! I mean they just don't give anything back.
Close the loop holes, stop taking back handers and you might get some sympathy. These huge companies need to be taxed like everyone else. I personally think there should be tax breaks for those who employ the most people and pay a fair wage to them also. Close the loops please.
Tax avoidance is legal and is pure polemic chosen by my mercifully retiring senator. I don't know about you, but I sure don't try to maximize tax revenue. If there's a deduction I'm eligible for - I sure as heck take it, and I won't hear lecturing about the evils tax avoidance unless you refuse to take so much as the standard deduction or even one exemption.
Perhaps proper scrutiny would have been laid out earlier had they been called Patriot Computers.
Perhaps proper scrutiny would have been laid out earlier had they been called Patriot Computers.
As Appeals Court Justice Learned Hand wrote in 1935:
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands."
In other words, people who think other folks or corporations ought to "pay their fair share" are simply incorrect. Anyone - and any US corporation - has the legal right to minimize the amount the federal government takes from them by using whatever legal means they have at their disposal.
Period.
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands."
In other words, people who think other folks or corporations ought to "pay their fair share" are simply incorrect. Anyone - and any US corporation - has the legal right to minimize the amount the federal government takes from them by using whatever legal means they have at their disposal.
Period.
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Just curious which politicians Apple the Corporation gives money too.
If you read my quoted text from the other poster, you would see I was responding to his statement regarding Fortune 500 companies.
Perhaps we should focus on the enormous amount of money Apple generates for state and local governments via payroll taxes, property taxes, sales tax, utility taxes, and the billions that the employees pay (because they are...EMPLOYED) in income and sales taxes, etc.
For whatever reason, the current generations believe that employers are somehow nefarious, evil, and corrupt. To those people I say "try living life without employers." A small and vocal segment of the population already does so.
As for me...well, I employed some 76 people in my company in the past, and I can tell you that the employees were by far the largest expense I had. Not just payroll and benefits, mind you - I paid a fair wage and had many thankful employees. But even small companies have an enormous burden in taxes and compliance, so much so that they have to employ tax attorneys, compliance companies, and accountants simply to know that they are in fact following the ridiculous laws governing doing business.
It is expensive - and getting more so - to employ people. If I could have done it for less, I absolutely would have - and then I would not have had to lay off some 51 employees (some of whom are still out of work).
For whatever reason, the current generations believe that employers are somehow nefarious, evil, and corrupt. To those people I say "try living life without employers." A small and vocal segment of the population already does so.
As for me...well, I employed some 76 people in my company in the past, and I can tell you that the employees were by far the largest expense I had. Not just payroll and benefits, mind you - I paid a fair wage and had many thankful employees. But even small companies have an enormous burden in taxes and compliance, so much so that they have to employ tax attorneys, compliance companies, and accountants simply to know that they are in fact following the ridiculous laws governing doing business.
It is expensive - and getting more so - to employ people. If I could have done it for less, I absolutely would have - and then I would not have had to lay off some 51 employees (some of whom are still out of work).
Although it sucks companies like apple CAN legally do this, the tax code is the way it is for those above the rest of us. How about the government release the rest of those names of tax evaders from the swiss banks and such. The clintons, Bushes, Obamas, members of congress and the senate and the rest of the crooked elite are most surely on the list that will never be released. I hope apple shoves that back in there face when questioned.
No, they haven't. That is the point.
Read the New York Times article. The have a subsidary that is incorportated in Ireland, and meets as a board in the US, and as a result doesn't pay taxes in either country. Legal? Maybe. Ethical? Questionable. Do these countries need to change their laws? Yes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/b...-congressional-panel-says.html?pagewanted=all
Nothing more than a witch hunt
So let's look at a few facts here. The Tim Cook testimony didn't get scheduled yesterday. Things like these require a lot of advanced planning. So everybody KNEW what the schedule was for weeks.
But suddenly out of nowhere comes this document accusing Apple of being a tax dodger THE DAY BEFORE THE TESTIMONY! That sort of Perry Mason crap only works on TV. It would get thrown out of court in a heartbeat because it wasn't brought up during the discovery phase. What that tells us (or should tell everyone who has their commie fingers in their ears) is that the Senate knows damn well that they're full of it and they have absolutely nothing on Apple from a legal standpoint. This is nothing more than political grandstanding. They are planning to grill Cook with this when they know he won't have time to prepare a defense.
But all current events aside, I'm absolutely stunned at all of you people who think Apple isn't paying "their fair share", whatever the eff that means. You are totally ignoring the the question of why the government can't live within its means. How irresponsibly they spend the money WE THE PEOPLE GIVE THEM is irrelevant to these people. You spout off that we should go back to Clinton-era tax rates but you refuse to go back to Clinton-era spending levels. If I have to live within my means, so does the government. If you don't have enough, that's tough noogies. Get over it. You're not getting any more.
So let's look at a few facts here. The Tim Cook testimony didn't get scheduled yesterday. Things like these require a lot of advanced planning. So everybody KNEW what the schedule was for weeks.
But suddenly out of nowhere comes this document accusing Apple of being a tax dodger THE DAY BEFORE THE TESTIMONY! That sort of Perry Mason crap only works on TV. It would get thrown out of court in a heartbeat because it wasn't brought up during the discovery phase. What that tells us (or should tell everyone who has their commie fingers in their ears) is that the Senate knows damn well that they're full of it and they have absolutely nothing on Apple from a legal standpoint. This is nothing more than political grandstanding. They are planning to grill Cook with this when they know he won't have time to prepare a defense.
But all current events aside, I'm absolutely stunned at all of you people who think Apple isn't paying "their fair share", whatever the eff that means. You are totally ignoring the the question of why the government can't live within its means. How irresponsibly they spend the money WE THE PEOPLE GIVE THEM is irrelevant to these people. You spout off that we should go back to Clinton-era tax rates but you refuse to go back to Clinton-era spending levels. If I have to live within my means, so does the government. If you don't have enough, that's tough noogies. Get over it. You're not getting any more.
The problem is that each Apple company is it's own independent company all paying fair taxes where they live. The problem is that none of them are paying "Pappa Apple" his money.... Pappa Apple gets to say how rich he is, but all that money is really sitting in IOUS from his kids, uncles, cousins, etc.It's Pappa Apple's money, but Pappa Apple won't cash the check because it costs 35%. He'd rather trust the kids with the money until he really needs it.
Unfortunately, the USA is the only country that taxes profits re-patriated from subsidiary companies. of course we do that because an influx to one company of $100 BILLION would only make our rich-to-poor ratios skyrocket even more. Taxes are how we sandbag the flow of riches so companies don't get richer than the people or even the government in Apple's current case.
The goal of CAPITALISM is to accumulate CAPITAL. Doesn't matter much where that capital is, as long as it's YOURS. CAPITAL equals unfair power to ask for things "government" isn't allowed to. So Stockholders would rather have $100 Billion in POWER outside the USA than in their own personal bank accounts.
So the REAL QUESTION is how do we get Apple and other companies to cash that money out to Stockholders who will BUY STUFF from the REST OF US so everybody gets to share.
Perhaps a tax holiday is in order, but ONLY if the companies divert all the money directly to Stockholder payouts, they can't KEEP any of it as retained earnings. Stockholders will be economically forced to use that money and share it with the rest of us (buy cars, college education, start new companies, etc) Even if they left it in the banks, it would be in OUR banks, and not being used against us by OVERSEAS banks trying to make profits.
Lets just cut the B.S.
It's true that Apple isn't breaking the law by taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid paying its share. And it's also true that it's up to the legislative branch to close those loopholes... but the problem starts with Apple itself and all those corporations that lobby for those loopholes to be put there in the first place.
It's not that Apple simply stumbled on some loopholes and innocently used them. They are part of the corporate mafia that put them there. And they don't have any intention to pay anything back for all the advantages they receive for doing business in the US.
And they know this.
It's true that Apple isn't breaking the law by taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid paying its share. And it's also true that it's up to the legislative branch to close those loopholes... but the problem starts with Apple itself and all those corporations that lobby for those loopholes to be put there in the first place.
It's not that Apple simply stumbled on some loopholes and innocently used them. They are part of the corporate mafia that put them there. And they don't have any intention to pay anything back for all the advantages they receive for doing business in the US.
And they know this.
Their fault, always their fault
Its always someone else's fault. The government vastly spends more then it takes in, and somehow, greedy corporations who make a profit, employ people, and run their business efficiently are at fault. Balance your own house first, stop spending what u don't have, stop blaming everyone else. Sorry, Apple has a responsibility to its shareholders... anyone can voluntarily pay more taxes if they choose.. get your checkbook out and start writing checks to Federal, State and Local governments... I am sure the money will be well spent on important things... just ask a politician, they will tell you.
Evil Corporations? Corporations are made up of people... no different then the government... Our tax code is meant to make everyone a criminal. Having had my business just audited I can tell you the tax code is a mess. It resulted in a "no change audit" meaning I had paid my taxes as i was supposed to, but the amount of time and resources it cost is inefficient and waste of time. A centralized planned economy just makes for increased opportunity for fraud and mischief. The government picking winners and losers? I wont even start on the social injustice, prejudice, and empowerment. One nation, Under God, INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all... Us vs them... rich vs poor, just divides and weakens our country... We should celebrate the successes in our country, not blame them for our individual inadequacies. http://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A
Its always someone else's fault. The government vastly spends more then it takes in, and somehow, greedy corporations who make a profit, employ people, and run their business efficiently are at fault. Balance your own house first, stop spending what u don't have, stop blaming everyone else. Sorry, Apple has a responsibility to its shareholders... anyone can voluntarily pay more taxes if they choose.. get your checkbook out and start writing checks to Federal, State and Local governments... I am sure the money will be well spent on important things... just ask a politician, they will tell you.
Evil Corporations? Corporations are made up of people... no different then the government... Our tax code is meant to make everyone a criminal. Having had my business just audited I can tell you the tax code is a mess. It resulted in a "no change audit" meaning I had paid my taxes as i was supposed to, but the amount of time and resources it cost is inefficient and waste of time. A centralized planned economy just makes for increased opportunity for fraud and mischief. The government picking winners and losers? I wont even start on the social injustice, prejudice, and empowerment. One nation, Under God, INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all... Us vs them... rich vs poor, just divides and weakens our country... We should celebrate the successes in our country, not blame them for our individual inadequacies. http://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A
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