Uber Facing Criminal Probe Over Software Used to Identify Driving Regulation Officials

[RadioGaGa1984]

Some of the most laughable people respond to these kinds of threads.

 

[0388631]

How would they even do this? Grab the GPS data and connect it with government offices?

 

[HEK]

While your point is taken, and is valid ... after all, I generally enjoy that companies can't sell rat poison as breakfast cereal ... I also believe that you're using the exception to invalidate the rule.

I mean, the Hell's Angels have toy runs for underprivileged kids, and the Mob was pretty generous to the community with regards to helping the less fortunate, throwing block parties, etc.

"But they did/do X good things and therefore your criticism of them is incorrect", is an oft-repeated refrain, but is ultimately capitulation to manipulation.

As I'm sure you're aware, or should be, there have been cases where people have been given tainted water, harmful medicine, harmful food, etc, due to various levels of corruption, and we still have regulations which overwhelmingly favor large corporations. Just read what passes for banking "regulation" if you want to make yourself sick. Little of those are designed for your or my benefit.

That we have *some* benefits overall is likely a side-effect of the fact that the wealthy and their families also need these things.

For instance, clean water benefits everyone in theory, but almost nobody in Flint, Michigan gets clean water due to their deteriorating infrastructure. The water gets contaminated as it makes it's way to the end user. Regulations are only as good as their enforcement, and the poor will have to endure a lot more hardship before regs are enforced in their favor.

Taken as a whole, regulations passed "for the good of the common citizen" most likely still pale in number to those passed for the benefit of the wealth and special interests.

In short, you're both at least somewhat right.

As with most things humans do, it's shades of grey rather than black and white.

 

[gnasher729]

Let's take a step back for a second.

Since when is it a separate criminal offense for someone engaged in a criminal activity to specifically take steps to avoid doing business with an undercover law enforcement agent? I mean, that's what greyballing is - it's figuring out who your customers are and not doing business with the ones who can bust you. I can't imagine a pimp anywhere in the world who doesn't do at least something equivalent.

There are regulations. If you are in breach of the regulations, you get a fine and you are asked to stop breaking the regulations. Any such breach is assumed to be a mistake on your side; you can get fined for that kind of mistake but then life goes on.

If you are in breach of the regulation, _AND_ you are caught having taking measures to avoid being found out, then clearly that breach was intentional and not a mistake, you knew what you were doing was wrong, and you still did it. That's an entirely different calibre of breach, and you would expect much higher penalties.

 

[Analog Kid]

Worst possible case for Uber: Google decides to ban their app from the Google store, based on the likely fact that Uber stole trade secrets about self driving cars from Google, and Apple asks its reviewers to take a very close look at the Uber app, and removes it from the app store as well. Good bye, Uber.

That's a good point-- their access to customers is gated by two competitors. A criminal conviction might be enough to get both of those companies to close the door.

Uber could probably re-route through a web interface, but it wouldn't be as easy.

I can't wait until this company implodes.

 

[sudo1996]

Worst possible case for Uber: Google decides to ban their app from the Google store, based on the likely fact that Uber stole trade secrets about self driving cars from Google, and Apple asks its reviewers to take a very close look at the Uber app, and removes it from the app store as well. Good bye, Uber.

2018: Uber releases a phone powered by Android Cannoli
jk
[doublepost=1494139697][/doublepost]I remember when Uber was new and unregulated. It was sketchy but cool. Now they're more restricted in where they can pick people up in some areas like airports. But I know it's for the better.

 

[Solomani]

Worst possible case for Uber: Google decides to ban their app from the Google store, based on the likely fact that Uber stole trade secrets about self driving cars from Google, and Apple asks its reviewers to take a very close look at the Uber app, and removes it from the app store as well. Good bye, Uber.

And then one week later, the drunk driving related deaths among Millennials will skyrocket 400%.

 

[gnasher729]

And then one week later, the drunk driving related deaths among Millennials will skyrocket 400%.

If that happens, we should make seat belts and airbags for them illegal.

 

[developer13245]

Goldman Sachs and Barclays, among others, come to mind when they caused the housing market to burst with their illegal securities and thrust our entire country into a recession while I was in college. This meant I could no longer secure a college loan on my own and when I was able to convince my parents to cosign (we don't have a good relationship because my parents have mental health issues), my rates went from 5-7% to 12-14%, and many times I couldn't find work because of all the people older than me who were now working typical college student jobs. This meant that my credit card debt went up as I was basically living off student loans and credit cards to eat and have an apartment, but eventually I was able to start doing some freelance as I got better at design. Tuition also went up year after year until it was frozen for years after the end of my time in school. Then, when I graduated, it was still pretty difficult to find work. Took years to get that all sorted, refinanced/consolidated and get my credit scores back up.

I hate Uber as much as the next guy and think they're a terrible company filled with misogynistic asses, but let's not kid ourselves about how horrible some of these other U.S. financial companies are. It's especially important to be cognizant of this now as many financial industry regulations are going to be rolled back under the new administration. We could end up back in the same place in the not so distant future. Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to give some context—especially for some of those on the forums who are younger and don't remember the crap that went down nearly 10 years ago. You know the saying—those who don't know their history are bound to repeat it, etc. As someone towards the older end of the millennial generation, I'm just disappointed that many of these new startups created by people around my age are heading in the same direction as those companies that screwed us over. Just goes to show that people will tend to be greedy and selfish in any generation. Just because I'm a new generation doesn't mean I'm any better. It's up to us to decide to make a change—otherwise the cycle will repeat ad infinitum and we will carry forward the sins of our fathers.

Ummm wrong.
When Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (government sponsored enterprises (GSEs)) were forced by the government (thanks to the Clinton administration implementing Larry Summers' crackpot ideas) to make bad loans the sub prime market was created - this led to over 200Billion in GSE losses (yet the GSE CEOs made millions in bonuses - look it up). So the GSEs undercut the interest rates in the prime market to force private lenders to participate in the sub prime market. This led to a series of bad deregulation (thanks again to Clinton) so private securities companies could stay in business (they had to burry the bad debt somewhere).

GW Bush tried to correct the problems, but congress obstructed. Democrats won majorities in 2006 and it became a straight partisan issue. Democrats knew it was going to blow up, and could use a compliant media to blame Bush and evil corps. You believed the drivel you were taught in school.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/12/dont_blame_bush_for_subprime_m.html

 

[nsayer]

Breaking the law is illegal. When you do things to evade the law, that's often also illegal.

That statement is entirely content-free.

The original question stands. If you're engaging in illegal commerce, why would taking steps to avoid engaging in that commerce with an undercover law enforcement agent be an additional illegal act?

 

[nsayer]

There are regulations. If you are in breach of the regulations, you get a fine and you are asked to stop breaking the regulations. Any such breach is assumed to be a mistake on your side; you can get fined for that kind of mistake but then life goes on.

If you are in breach of the regulation, _AND_ you are caught having taking measures to avoid being found out, then clearly that breach was intentional and not a mistake, you knew what you were doing was wrong, and you still did it. That's an entirely different calibre of breach, and you would expect much higher penalties.

That's fair, but it's still not a separate violation.

If Fred Hypothetical is convicted of murder and given ten years, and then it's found out later that he was paid for doing it, they can't go back and re-try him just because they found out he was deserving of harsher punishment. That would be double jeopardy. It would be different if these acts were ongoing, but that's not the case with Uber's Greyballing.
[doublepost=1494368759][/doublepost]

How would they even do this? Grab the GPS data and connect it with government offices?

That, and it's been alleged that they trolled Facebook and other social media looking for occupations, employers, etc.

 

[0388631]

That, and it's been alleged that they trolled Facebook and other social media looking for occupations, employers, etc.

Think you meant trawled, but, yes, that makes sense. I presume they also cross checked Linkedin.

 

[dysamoria]

Molten Salt Reactors. They fail safe 100% of the time. No coolant required. No core to melt down. And best of all they can use all the waste stockpiled and even plutonium and uranium from decomistioned bombs injected into molten salt to produce electricity.

Indians, Chinese, Russians, all working on the technology. US was working on one when Nixon stopped funding to pursue breeders to make more plutonium for more bombs.

Don't lump all reactor technology into one lump. Thorium molten salt reactors in addition to solar and wind could make coal and gas fired power plants completely obsolete. And solve the waste accumulated from the water cooled pressure reactors that are not fail safe in and of themselves.

Generally speaking, these technologies are so expensive compared to renewables that even government subsidies won't be enough to bring them to market in the U.S. You may be right about India, China, and Russia, but we have very little influence over those governments.

Regarding the "they fail safe 100%" statement: it's a broad and confident statement when there have been few such reactors (experimental at that). How many have been built? How many years did they run? What external challenges did they face while they ran (e.g. flooding, tornado, power outage, earthquake, etc.) and how did they fare? What waste did they produce and where is it now?

It's rather odd that an article about these reactors at https://whatisnuclear.com/reactors/msr.html considers the unknowns of waste product to be "minor issues".

Quote:

• Unknown waste form — It’s not clear what nuclear waste from MSRs will look like. The salt itself is not contained enough to be put in a repository so someone will have to come up with a stable waste form.

[doublepost=1494427520][/doublepost]

That statement is entirely content-free.

The original question stands. If you're engaging in illegal commerce, why would taking steps to avoid engaging in that commerce with an undercover law enforcement agent be an additional illegal act?

Conspiracy? Evidence tampering? Do either or both of these apply?

 

[nsayer]

Conspiracy? Evidence tampering? Do either or both of these apply?

Any time two or more people rob a liquor store do they additionally charge them with conspiring to do so? Even if that's the case, Uber's greyballing doesn't alter the conspiratorial nature of their ostensibly illegal ride sharing scheme.

And Uber didn't tamper with any evidence. They took steps to prevent any from being made - that is, they took steps to avoid engaging in criminal behavior with someone who might be trying to use that behavior as evidence. That's not the same thing.