uh.. what happened to Apple? [underwhelmed by MBP]

[Swampus]

Some people are still using their 10 year old ThinkPads. Wouldn't you consider a 10 year old laptop to be reliable if it lasted that long?

----------

So your sample size of 1 is supposed to convince us that Mac laptops are more reliable than every other laptop at the same price or less?

If a sample size of "some" meets with your criteria for statistical significance, you can click on the PowerPC section of MR and find that "some" are still using 12+ year old PowerBooks.

Does this prove that Macs are better? Of course not. Early failure rates are heavily guarded. Long term survival rates don't matter enough for anyone to bother collecting data. Third party information from sources like SquareTrade is far from perfect. Consumer surveys are too subjective. Not much to go on when you really look at it. Like it or not, we all make decisions based on anecdotal evidence, but let's not pretend that there is a meaningful difference between the word "some" and the word "one" in that context.

 

[Zeov]

Yes, look beyond the specs. For instance, there are intangibles like a yellow screen, image retention, a creaky case, wifi issues.

Open your eyes dude!

Interesting. on every macbook?

 

[simonsi]

I love that line from the film Contagion:

"To contract the disease, you have to come in contact with a carrier. To get scared you just have to read the internet."

Apt eh??

 

[iChrist]

Interesting. on every macbook?

No, but roll the dice. See which you get.

 

[Zeov]

No, but roll the dice. See which you get.

oh, i remember, that only happens on MacBooks.. interesting how those PC guys made a product that simply cannot be faulty, what magic is this?

 

[Septembersrain]

Live and let live. No one product can please everyone. That's the freedom of choice. I'm glad we've got that freedom..=)

 

[brdeveloper]

Live and let live. No one product can please everyone. That's the freedom of choice. I'm glad we've got that freedom..=)

What freedom? I expected that buying a rMBP my screen would be better in any aspect than a TN-display. Non-uniform yellowing is a new issue which didn't affect TN displays.

 

[TheEnthusiast]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If you want to have an objective discussion about any perceived faults about Apple and any of their products, then you'd be best served going elsewhere. People here take negative criticisms of Apple too personally.

 

[disasterdrone]

I guess I'm confused. I thought you were trying to convey that I meant 512GB was enough for everyone.

If so, that's decidedly not what I said. Apple doesn't make products and/or give configuration options that'll satisfy everyone. That wouldn't be profitable enough. What they do is try to satisfy most of their target demographic while maximizing profitability. Any consumer product manufacturer/seller that makes money year over year does the same.

If not, then you'll have to explain more clearly because I don't follow.

Sorry - I was being sarcastic - referencing the famous comment that 640k is enough for everyone. I was meaning that I have been told time and again here that 500gb is more than enough for anyone, and only freaks would want to upgrade a hard drive.
It's true that Apple markets to the most profitable groups, but in the past it was possible for people with more taxing needs to upgrade machines to fit those needs. Now it's not. That makes me sad, but as you point out, Apple shareholders happy.

 

[Septembersrain]

What freedom? I expected that buying a rMBP my screen would be better in any aspect than a TN-display. Non-uniform yellowing is a new issue which didn't affect TN displays.

So choose a different product. =)

I'm not an Apple enthusiast or any other type of blind follower. I believe that there are so many options out there, just explore until you find what works for you. I've got a wide array of electronics myself. Windows, Linux, Android, iOS, BB10, WP8, etc.

I always say that if you aren't happy, keep looking until you are.

 

[brdeveloper]

So choose a different product. =)

I'm not an Apple enthusiast or any other type of blind follower. I believe that there are so many options out there, just explore until you find what works for you. I've got a wide array of electronics myself. Windows, Linux, Android, iOS, BB10, WP8, etc.

I always say that if you aren't happy, keep looking until you are.

if it was easy the way you argue... i can't get my money back anymore without testing my patience through the screen lottery... probably they'll offer me a new refurb machine with the same or other issues...

 

[QuarterSwede]

It's true that Apple markets to the most profitable groups, but in the past it was possible for people with more taxing needs to upgrade machines to fit those needs. Now it's not.

It's not because their aren't any high capacity PCIe SSD's yet. As soon as they trickle out they'll add the options during the next refresh or major revision; assuming pricing isn't bonkers. Apple simply chose to go with the fastest available bus speed for SSDs instead of staying on SATA III because Thunderbolt 2 is plenty fast for extra space. This is consistent with their history (dropping floppy drives, optical, etc.) so I don't know why it's a surprise to some.

What Apple's options were for the MacBook Pro:
- Stay on SATA III SSD, more storage options, speed will be pointed out as stagnant, Thunderbolt 2 will be faster than internal drive (odd to say the least).
- Move to much faster PCIe SSD, fewer storage options, storage size will be pointed out as a deficiency, Thunderbolt 2 will accommodate 90% of users needs for extra space. 9.9% just don't like the idea of carrying an external drive, Last 0.1% legitimately need more internal space.
* Numbers are only being used to illustrate a point. Not actual statistics.

 

[marivaux]

if it was easy the way you argue... i can't get my money back anymore without testing my patience through the screen lottery... probably they'll offer me a new refurb machine with the same or other issues...

Sorry you're having trouble with your local Apple people--I'm not sure why you don't think you'll eventually get a working computer, though.

Unfortunately, you can get lemons with any computer company, including Apple. For better or for worse, though, I can tell you that it's not just the recent machines--my wife had a white Macbook that we finally convinced Apple to replace after months of repairs (it turned out that they had somehow left out the heat sink!), but it took a couple of hours of making a fuss on the phone. Obnoxiously, no one wants to actually replace your defective computer--they always insist they can do a repair. Of course, that's sometimes true, but it would be nicer if they saved you the hassle and replaced it. I had an IBook that had to be replaced immediately after purchase, as well.

But--when we got non-lemon replacements after all our trouble, they were long-lasting, trouble-free computers--we still use them.

 

[disasterdrone]

It's not because their aren't any high capacity PCIe SSD's yet. As soon as they trickle out they'll add the options during the next refresh or major revision; assuming pricing isn't bonkers. Apple simply chose to go with the fastest available bus speed for SSDs instead of staying on SATA III because Thunderbolt 2 is plenty fast for extra space. This is consistent with their history (dropping floppy drives, optical, etc.) so I don't know why it's a surprise to some.

What Apple's options were for the MacBook Pro:
- Stay on SATA III SSD, more storage options, speed will be pointed out as stagnant, Thunderbolt 2 will be faster than internal drive (odd to say the least).
- Move to much faster PCIe SSD, fewer storage options, storage size will be pointed out as a deficiency, Thunderbolt 2 will accommodate 90% of users needs for extra space. 9.9% just don't like the idea of carrying an external drive, Last 0.1% legitimately need more internal space.
* Numbers are only being used to illustrate a point. Not actual statistics.

Yes, people keep pointing out that it just sucks to be in a demographic that needs storage in a laptop. Of course, the other option would have been to leave a SATA port in, with a hard drive bay and a dual drive setup like the iMacs. Of course, that would have added literally fractions of a millimeter to the case size, and form always triumphs over function.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Yes, people keep pointing out that it just sucks to be in a demographic that needs storage in a laptop. Of course, the other option would have been to leave a SATA port in, with a hard drive bay and a dual drive setup like the iMacs. Of course, that would have added literally fractions of a millimeter to the case size, and form always triumphs over function.

I don't think you realize how much internal space the current batteries take up (~75%). Add a SATA bay and your battery life tanks.

 

[disasterdrone]

I don't think you realize how much internal space the current batteries take up (~75%). Add a SATA bay and your battery life tanks.

Or add a fraction of a mm to the case depth. Form vs function. Unfortunately Apple values the fraction of a mm more than function, and I value function more than the fraction of a mm.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Or add a fraction of a mm to the case depth. Form vs function. Unfortunately Apple values the fraction of a mm more than function, and I value function more than the fraction of a mm.

Oh come on. Even a millimeter wouldn't create enough space. Now you're just trying to convince yourself it could have happened.

 

[whitedragon101]

I think what we need are some real comparisons. Please post links to laptops and prices of said laptops that are comparable or better than the current rMBP.

This means they need to :

- be the same thin and light form factor
- have retina screens
- have amazing build quality like solid aluminium or carbon fibre body etc
- have the same or better specs for CPU, GPU,RAM etc
- have an SSD the same or faster
- have same size + endurance (ie rated charge cycles) battery
- same or better IO ports eg usb3 etc

 

[wrinkster22]

I think the mac notebooks are incredible. Light, fast, good batter, powerful, and spectacular looking.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

If you want a reliable machine get a Panasonic ToughBook. The US military prefers them over those cheap Apple laptops.

the military prefers them because of its durability, not the same as reliability.

 

[simonsi]

the military prefers them because of its durability, not the same as reliability.

/\ This - I was struggling to find the word but you have it exactly

 

[panzer06]

Or add a fraction of a mm to the case depth. Form vs function. Unfortunately Apple values the fraction of a mm more than function, and I value function more than the fraction of a mm.

Oh come on. Even a millimeter wouldn't create enough space. Now you're just trying to convince yourself it could have happened.

Whatever, the additional space required I think he was expressing that it could have been done but it would have sacrificed the esthetics of the machine to do so.

They could have left a 17" option with more internal space but didn't. Even the old designs made no effort to accommodate multiple drive bays.

Flexibility of configuration and upgradability are not important to Apple. As it stands they sell to a high end portion of the market that is willing to pay extra for something that is unique and has a market cachet greater than competing products.

This is not likely to change (they are making a ton of money with the current approach) and those of us who want different solutions running OS X will most likely be forced to look at Windows-based options.

Cheers,

 

[kelon111]

the military prefers them because of its durability, not the same as reliability.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/why-toughbook-failure-rates.asp

Panasonic Toughbook® mobile computers rarely fail. In fact, Toughbook mobile computers are nearly ten times more reliable than standard business laptops. PC Magazine, in its May 2011 issue, reported an industry average failure rate of 15%. Panasonic's service records (as of June 2011, for units in and out of warranty) show an average annual failure rate of only 2.4% for Toughbook mobile computers.*

The proven reliability and low failure rate of Toughbook computers begin in the factory. Panasonic is the only major computer manufacturer that engineers, builds and tests its own products. By producing most of the components in-house, Panasonic is able to assure quality, consistency and parts availability throughout the manufacturing process and during the warranty period that follows.

 

[Dekard]

Yes, people keep pointing out that it just sucks to be in a demographic that needs storage in a laptop. Of course, the other option would have been to leave a SATA port in, with a hard drive bay and a dual drive setup like the iMacs. Of course, that would have added literally fractions of a millimeter to the case size, and form always triumphs over function.

Or you can also use Thunderbolt drive.. http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10549

 

[leman]

http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/why-toughbook-failure-rates.asp

I believe its a bit more complicated. AFR is basically an estimate of the chance that you will receive a dud from the factory. It doesn't mean that a component with a low AFR will on average have a much longer life expectation then a component with high AFR - rather, it simply means that its less likely to fail within one or two years from manufacturing.

Besides, comparing a Toughbook and a MBP is like comparing a tank and a general purpose commuter. Most of the original criticisms (high price for the components, limited storage options) apply to the Toughbook even more then to the rMBP. The Toughbook is tough, but its also insanely expensive (twice the price of the rMBP), extremely heavy (more then two times compared to the rMBP) and SLOW. It performs on the level of the MBA, while being 4 times as heavy, having half the battery life and over two times more expensive for the comparable configuration. I don't think that the slightly increased reliability is worth almost $2000 extra for the majority of users