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UK Pursues Centralized Coronavirus Contact Tracing App, Rejects Apple-Google Solution
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"Australia recently released a COVIDSafe app... It also results in more battery drain than normal, and in some situations, such as on public transport, users are instructed to leave the app open and running."
Rubbish! It does not!
Rubbish! It does not!
Surely it would have to wake up for every type of phone running the software? Not just iPhones. Presumably this is why Apple and Google had to partner on their API.
it’s not easy to see how the contact tracing helps, but isn’t this what made such a difference in Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea? But if you are deemed at risk, does that mean software tells you to quarantine for 14 days? Seems like that might happen a lot if social distancing is relaxed.
Unfortunately I feel this is a mistake. Anyone with any understanding of app location privacy and battery usage will avoid this like the virus itself, which defeats the whole purpose.
I'd consider this type of app practically a virus itself. It's going to generate a lot of additional "chatter" of my whereabouts to servers, and all I'd get back is some vague information that I was recently around somebody else who both owned another iPhone and who reported they tested positive for COVID-19?
That's going to create more stress and panic for users than doing anything constructive. And imagine the scenarios where someone really did stay isolated except for interacting with one or two individuals. Then they get this warning and they can narrow it down, knowing one of those two people didn't have a phone with them. Now you just violated HIPAA rules and essentially told another person that this individual was infected.
I actually read an article which quoted a doctor at St Thomas as suggesting Johnson was never actually close to death and may not even have needed to be in ICU, though they didn’t think it was cut and dry.
I find it interesting that you criticise Veinticinco for suggesting Johnson might not have been on the brink of death when it was Johnson and his cabinet who repeatedly lied to the public claiming he was fine.
Governments and silicon valley falling over themselves to develop tracking apps. Whoever wins, we lose!
Here in Australia, they have already developed one, this government in the last three terms has the worst track record of any government thus far, by pushing dystopian laws, or outright technological incompetence. I have heard it all before:
"The Centerlink bot won't lead to any false charges." - But it did.
"The Assistance and Access bill 2018 won't compromise your security." - And it has.
"No, we don't have 10-year jail terms for people whistleblowers" - But we do thanks to the above bill.
"Your Medicare data is safe" - But it wasn't.
"Your unions are not being bugged" - and they were.
"Yes, the Census website can deal with all the traffic on census night." - but it went down.
"Yes, the Centerlink website can deal with all the traffic during the outbreak." - but it went down.
"No, the Covid19 app doesn't track you" - hmmm
How does the saying go? "Fool me once shame on you, fool me eight more times and it's clear I don’t read the news".
Here in Australia, they have already developed one, this government in the last three terms has the worst track record of any government thus far, by pushing dystopian laws, or outright technological incompetence. I have heard it all before:
"The Centerlink bot won't lead to any false charges." - But it did.
"The Assistance and Access bill 2018 won't compromise your security." - And it has.
"No, we don't have 10-year jail terms for people whistleblowers" - But we do thanks to the above bill.
"Your Medicare data is safe" - But it wasn't.
"Your unions are not being bugged" - and they were.
"Yes, the Census website can deal with all the traffic on census night." - but it went down.
"Yes, the Centerlink website can deal with all the traffic during the outbreak." - but it went down.
"No, the Covid19 app doesn't track you" - hmmm
How does the saying go? "Fool me once shame on you, fool me eight more times and it's clear I don’t read the news".
lol look at the actual stats of this virus ... do we seriously need a tracking app? What a joke. There's an obvious theme amongst countries ... the plan for more and more government control just keeps marching forward. I wonder how many people can see the truth of this.
No thank you, not in a million years would I ever install a tracking app like this. I know already that carrying a phone exposes your location, but taking that a step further and letting 'big brother' watch over your distancing is just asking for more authoritarian government control. Just recently, a long-term boyfriend and girlfriend in Canada were charged and told to go home, because they couldn't produce ID that proved they lived together.
Go ahead, install these apps ...
No thank you, not in a million years would I ever install a tracking app like this. I know already that carrying a phone exposes your location, but taking that a step further and letting 'big brother' watch over your distancing is just asking for more authoritarian government control. Just recently, a long-term boyfriend and girlfriend in Canada were charged and told to go home, because they couldn't produce ID that proved they lived together.
Go ahead, install these apps ...
So many negative comments in this article it’s silly. Apple/Google API is not the only way to do it, they are trying to avoid a ‘middle man’ in this scenario. They looked into an API version and deemed it non-required. People stating ‘oh I’ll go back to landline’ and ‘this is how it starts’ just accept that something like this is critical and especially if it gets worse. If you don’t like it, do not leave your house at all. This technology is here to help us, we don’t need conspiracies about how it could be used. Let’s stop with the ‘big bad government agencies’ for once.
Ingsoc is here. War is Peace / Freedom is Slavery / Ignorance is Strength. Long live the never ending medical “emergency” (since no one believes in never ending wars anymore)
I believe Apple and Google have good intentions for this technology but the following quote from the Social Security Administration's website is a true, cautionary tale about how things created for one purpose have a tendency to be used for many, many more things than originally intended. Is contact tracing going to turn into "tracking" by this July? Probably not. But will it evolve and eventually be used for purposes beyond contact tracing? I would bet on it.
"The Social Security number (SSN) was created in 1936 for the sole purpose of tracking the earnings histories of U.S. workers, for use in determining Social Security benefit entitlement and computing benefit levels. Since then, use of the SSN has expanded substantially. Today the SSN may be the most commonly used numbering system in the United States... The SSN's very universality has led to its adoption throughout government and the private sector as a chief means of identifying and gathering information about an individual."
"The Social Security number (SSN) was created in 1936 for the sole purpose of tracking the earnings histories of U.S. workers, for use in determining Social Security benefit entitlement and computing benefit levels. Since then, use of the SSN has expanded substantially. Today the SSN may be the most commonly used numbering system in the United States... The SSN's very universality has led to its adoption throughout government and the private sector as a chief means of identifying and gathering information about an individual."
The Story of the Social Security Number
Social Security Administration Research, Statistics, and Policy Analysis
www.ssa.gov
Most people here hate the idea of the app, but you must download the app unless you want to remain in lockdown until 2021.
Imagine worrying about an app tracking you when iOS and Android already tracks you.
Imagine worrying about an app tracking you when iOS and Android already tracks you.
Let’s see how well that worksI can see Apple rejecting it for using too much battery
Yes, these expensive ‘experts’ advising the government would appear not to have considered that Apple can reject apps on this basis.
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So was he fine or did they lie about him being fine? Both cannot be true.
So was he fine or did they lie about him being fine? Both cannot be true.
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Easy — you either have official application installed and running and ready to show its screen on demand or self-isolate at home. If you stay at home you don't need to install this application. The choice is yours.
They use pagers because Hospitals design blocks phone signals in a lot of key areas that pagers are not affected by, they also stay charged in use for much longer periods of time, weeks not days. This isnt just UK hospitals either.
From a medical website
Pagers continue to live in hospitals in part because they work where cellphones won’t. Hospitals have cellular and Wi-Fi dead zones, particularly in spots where walls have been built to stop X-ray exposure. Pagers get the same kind of range as an FM radio station, and signals go to multiple satellites instead of just one, as cellphones do.
“This redundancy increases the reliability of the message getting through, because if one tower is down, the others are usually working,” Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider, internist at Sutter Health’s California Pacific Medical Center, tells MSN. She also adds that pagers have a long battery life, which means they need to be charged only every week or two, compared with smartphones, which must be charged at least daily.
The difference here seems to be that the Apple/Google approach helps the individual only, while the NHS approach helps the country as a whole. Being able to understand infection rates and areas of outbreak at a national level are vital for a national health system, and potentially a game-changer when it comes to setting and lifting restrictions. Every country is currently doing this based on predictions from limited testing, rather than accurate data. Countries are now beginning to lift restrictions and “see what happens” - surely we can do better than this???
This kind of centralised approach could revolutionise annual vaccinations for flu. Not sure how the rest of the world handle flu, but in the U.K. elderly people are vaccinated for various strains of flu every year - all based on prediction. Having accurate data on the specific strains and where they are spreading could, again, be a game-changer.
Just need to get the battery use and privacy right. I’m amazed how many people have suddenly started trusting Google 😳😂
This kind of centralised approach could revolutionise annual vaccinations for flu. Not sure how the rest of the world handle flu, but in the U.K. elderly people are vaccinated for various strains of flu every year - all based on prediction. Having accurate data on the specific strains and where they are spreading could, again, be a game-changer.
Just need to get the battery use and privacy right. I’m amazed how many people have suddenly started trusting Google 😳😂
Access to that data isn't easy for the govt. to attain or use though. A centralised govt. tracker has always been intelligence agencies endgame. They'll be having a Bolli party at GCHQ over the opportunity Covid has provided.
I'd install an Apple one and keep an eye on updates about how that data is being used. Absolutely zero chance I'll install any centralised govt. tracker.
Observation:
- Track where and how fast I drive: no problem
- Track what I buy and where I buy it: go ahead
- Track who I interactive with online: hey, why not?
- Track my “significant locations”: yeah I’ll keep that switched on
- Track what I watch and listen to via multiple apps and corporations: on
- Log into a search engine so literally everything I do online it’s tracked: yep
- Anonymously track a virus infection that is currently crippling the planet and killing millions of people: NO WAY, IM NOT DOING THAT, THERES NO F***ING WAY IM HAVING THAT ON MY PHONE!
- Track where and how fast I drive: no problem
- Track what I buy and where I buy it: go ahead
- Track who I interactive with online: hey, why not?
- Track my “significant locations”: yeah I’ll keep that switched on
- Track what I watch and listen to via multiple apps and corporations: on
- Log into a search engine so literally everything I do online it’s tracked: yep
- Anonymously track a virus infection that is currently crippling the planet and killing millions of people: NO WAY, IM NOT DOING THAT, THERES NO F***ING WAY IM HAVING THAT ON MY PHONE!
You do realize the U.K. is a different country, with different laws?
HIPAA is an U.S. law which applies to American institutions, it has no relevance to anything the N.H.S. or British government does. Not even to American citizens resident in the U.K.
The applicable law would be the European G.D.P.R. regulations, which still apply in the U.K. until a least the end of the year as part of the Brexit transition. This protects citizens of the E.U., no matter where they are in the world.
So despite G.D.P.R. being more broad than just healthcare, they work in fundamentally different ways. Notably, because it is centred on the individual rather than institutions, anyone can choose to allow their data will be used. Or later can revoke their permission and require the data be deleted.
Given most users are already used to agreeing to terms and conditions when they use an app for the first time, there would be no legal concerns.
And whilst the scenario you present is definitely a possibility, I do not think most people who would be willing to use the app would see it as a problem. I can see it would be one under the U.S. healthcare model where revealing pre-existing conditions can have detrimental impacts on access to care. But that is not a concern here where it is universally available to British citizens. And surely going into isolation would give away a person's status anyway?