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Mr Maui...I am stunned 10/10 that put him in his place

The iphone is great! It lacks some features but who cares. Its great. I have only received 4 multi media messages this year! I did not even need them! In todays world e-mail is better than MMS because its free. The Iphone may not have multi media messages functions but it has e-mail. It may not be able to receive bluetooth files but who uses that everyday anyway? I am in my teens and I uses multiple sms at once but its not that important. I would not kill me to go sent,forward send.

So Apple. 10/10. We love you :p
 
The iphone is great! It lacks some features but who cares. Its great. I have only received 4 multi media messages this year! I did not even need them! In todays world e-mail is better than MMS because its free. The Iphone may not have multi media messages functions but it has e-mail. It may not be able to receive bluetooth files but who uses that everyday anyway? I am in my teens and I uses multiple sms at once but its not that important. I would not kill me to go sent,forward send.

So Apple. 10/10. We love you :p

Thanks. I just get tired of hearing all of the idiots who rant about the shortcomings of the iPhone. They seem to forget (or just ignore) the fact that Apple has been in the "phone" business for a year and is now the #3 phone seller (in total revenue). It was designed to compete in the cell phone market with Apple design and incredible portable web-browsing capabilities. In that area, it blows all smartphones and PDAs away. Plus it works as an iPod with all of its features. It was NOT designed to replace computers. If people want a full-featured computer that fits in the palm of their hand, with the design of an iPhone ... GOOD LUCK to them in finding one. Again, JMO.
 
Apple did not design the iPhone for high-quality picture-taking. That is what digital cameras are for.
Exactly my point. I wasn't the one claiming that because it can take pictures and thus "create" a "photo file" it would thus mean it was a tool.
You really ought to learn how to read what people write.

Apple did not design the iPhone to be used as a USB mass storage device. Buy that if you want one.
Hello, Mr. obvious – of course they designed it without the ability to do mass storage. That's my whole point. It's designed as a toy, not a tool.



DUH! Guess it has one feature that all cell phones have. Making calls. Go figure. You are so bright.
It's striking how one idjit after another cannot fathom the simplest things, yet they feel like they're in a position to use sarcasm.
Again, I wasn't the one claiming that because the iPhone are able to make calls it must thus be a tool. On the contrary, I contended that that was NOT enough. I'd feel stupid if I was you – trying to hit a target by turning your back to it, all the while trying to show off. What a joke.


Then buy the competitor brands. Reminder ... iPhone outsold RIMM's entire Blackberry lineup last quarter. And most (if not all) other smartphones and PDAs to boot! A lot of people (10m+) must love "toys".
Well, they do. Do I really need to mention that an appeal to popularity is a glaring logical fallacy?




What are you trying to update it from with bluetooth. IPhone syncs perfectly with Mac's Calendar and Contacts. And I believe it now accepts push mail contacts etc.
I am not talking about updating the stuff through bluetooth. Are you so ill-informed that you think that that is the only use for bluetooth? Go look at the competition, and may, just maybe, you will become aware of what one can do with bluetooth. "Tethering" usually means that you can use the phone as a modem for your computer to get web access.



You may not, but people who are heavily vested in trading regularly, may very well consider it a tool. It may be a widget, but it is faster than any other device for checking stock quotes. Click the icon. Done. Period.
Again, it's rather contrived example. But I guess that if we use your logical fallacy that so many people bought iPhones and therefore it must be a tool, not a toy, I guess most of the iPhone buyers use the stock widget. :rolleyes:

Do you own an iPhone? I guess you never use any of the features. You should have bought an iPod. If you don't own one, then you should remain silent.
It's amazing how daft people can be when they try to defend their favourite corporation. You really cannot be serious, if you suggest I should go out and buy a product that isn't even close to fulfilling my needs and wants, just to get a "right" to say that it DOESN'T meet said needs and wants. That's like saying I should go drink and driving, because otherwise I cannot say it sucks.


Are you serious? Who adds an external keyboard to a phone? Use a laptop!
People who needs to write a bit more than a simple SMS and a quick, short, one-liner reply in the mail (which you can't copy/paste). I have enough equipment to carry around as it is, so I try to do with as little as possible every day. Only a true apologist would suggest carrying a laptop when a 200 gramme keyboard would suffice. I guess that's the trademark of fanboys, though.



Such a task. Much more effort than copying to another smartphone that can "handle all of these 'features' " Sad argument.
There is nothing sad in that argument. Especially given the crap formats supported on the iPhone and the fact that you can't edit any of it. If I have to depend on having webaccess at any time and all the time, I would loose to my competition.




Why would you want to if you are out of your teen years.
Why would I need to SMS several people at once? Ever heard of having coworkers? I guess, though, that the mere notion of that is a foreing concept for apologists like you.



Critical misstep by Apple apparently. I've had competitor's phones and have never received a single MMS. They are not that high in demand.
So, because you personally have never received one, there is no use for it? I guess, though, that if you're american, you're excused. Me, I live in Europe, and even though MMS is far from being as popular as SMS, it's still pretty popular.



How many apps can you download to your "other" smartphones. Last I heard there were 200,000+ for the iPhone. Many of these apps are designed as something "other than" toys. Sit down and write to the programmers working hard to write them that their stuff is simply useless "toy" applications.
Ah, yes, endless rows of calculator apps and stupid games. Let's just mention one app that I have a hard time finding on the iPhone: A text editor.

Again I ask, do you own an iPhone? If you do, then you must like toys (by your own label). If you don't, you're a fool for rambling on so much about what you have no clue on.
I always research before I buy. I don't buy into hype, and I certainly don't buy items that falls flat on the face of what I want it to achieve.
Secondly, I'm not rambling on anything, I'm countering idiotic fanboys being as apologetic as they can be, because I think you're funny when you try to pretend Apple products exist in a vacuum, while not even knowing the first thing about the competition.



Maybe you should cite some examples of the "real" smartphones you are referencing and their features before making generic comments such as this one.
You're kidding me!? If you knew the first thing about the competition you would know I merely scratched the surface. But again, it's that vacuum that seems to make your head pop.

And please, forget copy and paste. That will arrive in a software update very soon.
Says who?
Even if it does come in a year or two, though, then that doesn't change that the iPhone is a toy NOW, does it? Some future promise doesn't make the feature useful TODAY.

Apple did not originally design the iPhone as a PDA.
Ah, Captain obvious is back. Of course they didn't. I'm not trying to make the argument that they did. My argument is that it is NOT ("designed to be") a tool, nor a smartphone. 3G and crippled features (of the few it has) is far from being a "smart phone".
It was designed as a cell phone and portable web browsing device. It has evolved tremendously. Apple has come a long with with only two versions of the phone.
Again, it's obvious you have no idea of the competition.
All of your competitors smartphones and PDAs have been around for much longer times. Their early attempts couldn't come close to the iPhone's first two generations.
LOL, do your research. There is nothing on the front edge of technology in either of the "smartphones" from Apple. So, unless you want to compare it to ten year old phones or older, it's ridiculous to suggest that because Apple came late to the table, they should trail behind to the extend they do.

Besides, if the iPhone is so "toyish", why are the competitors scrambling to copy it? LOL
"LOL"? The only funny thing in that comment, is that you STILL utterly fail to recognise the logical fallacy it is to make an appeal to popularity in this context. The only reason teh competitors scramble to copy it, is because it sells well. And that fact has NAUGHT to do with whether it's a toy or a tool.

I accept your right to your own opinion, but if you like the competitors versions, buy them and go hang out at their blogs or forums with your useless rants.
I not only bought them, I use most of my stuff to the limit (not constantly, of course), but you truly are ignorant if you feel that only the blind apologistic fanboys should hang out on Macrumours.



And your arguments are rather like listening to a "how-to" talk show being broadcast in an ancient Greek dialect. About as useful as using water to put out a grease fire. JMO
I'm not surprised you feel that proper argumentation is sounding like greek to you – I'm still waiting for real arguments from you.
 
Mr Maui...I am stunned 10/10 that put him in his place
LOL, really? Certainly spoken like someone who thinks like a true blinded fanboy.

The iphone is great! It lacks some features but who cares. Its great. I have only received 4 multi media messages this year! I did not even need them! In todays world e-mail is better than MMS because its free. The Iphone may not have multi media messages functions but it has e-mail. It may not be able to receive bluetooth files but who uses that everyday anyway? I am in my teens and I uses multiple sms at once but its not that important. I would not kill me to go sent,forward send.

So Apple. 10/10. We love you :p

Well, colour me pink, I am surprised. Not only was I right, the blind-fest continues.
Email is not better per se. It certainly depends what you're going to use it for. I realise, though, that true fanboys such as yourself don't mind workarounds, as long as you can pretend that the workaround itself is the best solution since sliced bread.
 
I'm not surprised you feel that proper argumentation is sounding like greek to you – I'm still waiting for real arguments from you.

I'm not going to rehash your stupidity. I know the competition. I know what they offer. Many offer things the iPhone does not. I gladly and openly acknowledge that. But just because others offer features the iPhone does not, it does not make the iPhone a toy.

You have EVERY RIGHT to have YOUR OWN OPINION on the iPhone. You have every right to think of it as a toy IN YOUR OPINION. But remember, your opinion is not everyone's opinion. Your opinion would just have a little more merit, and earn a little more respect, if you actually owned one, used one, and could make your comments based on experience, and not opinion. More than 10 million people seem to think the iPhone is much more than a "toy". And that number is growing MUCH FASTER than the competition.

You prefer the competition. Excellent, they're glad to hear it. You enjoy the competition. I respect that. Go buy the competition. It's your right. Just don't spend your time slamming others with your opinion as if it should be a fact for their life.

Just remember, Apple is grabbing an awful lot of marketshare from the competition's "tools" with their "toy". AND FAST!! And the "tools" are working very hard to copy the "toy".

Am I a fanboy? I guess ANYONE who likes Apple products must be a fanboy to a person who doesn't. If liking Apple products makes me a fanboy, then I gladly, and proudly, wear your label.

MY OPINION is that the iPhone is the BEST hand-held web browser on the market at this time. It also doubles as a phone, triples as the BEST hand-held music and movie/video player (ala iPod ... for those who want that option), quadruples as an enjoyable gaming or entertainment device (for those who want that option), is more user-friendly than most, if not all, other hand-held, portable devices out there, can run more applications than ALL other hand-held phones and devices out there (regardless of your opinion that many of the the apps may be useless), and finally is probably the most flexible of ALL hand-held portable phones, web devices, and music players on the market. It's features may not compete with every other feature of every other competitor in every other category out there, and it may not beat each individual competitor in having the best feature in EVERY category, but it was not designed to. That doesn't make it a toy. It just makes it a toy to YOU. It was simply designed to be useful, flexible and easy to use. It accomplished that with flying colors, and it only took two tries.

Finally, anyone who feels the need to label another because their opinion differs, is obviously shallow and ignorant. I feel sad for you. And that is MY OPINION.
 
I'm not going to rehash your stupidity. I know the competition. I know what they offer. Many offer things the iPhone does not. I gladly acknowledge that. But just because they offer features the iPhone does not, it does not make the iPhone a toy. You have EVERY RIGHT to have YOUR OWN OPINION on the iPhone. You have every right to think of it as a toy IN YOUR OPINION. But remember, your opinion is not everyone's opinion.
Of course it's my opinion. But unlike you I back it with argumentation. Everything we utter can be said to be opinion when one has to put a value (concrete or metaphorically) on something. That goes without saying. But if you haven't noticed, some opinions are more valid than others. Not all opinions can simply be dismissed and replaced by any other opinion.

Further, your ignorance when it comes to what bluetooth is used for, what "tethering" usually is referring to, and your demand that I gave examples of smartphones more capable than the iPhone shows how much of the competition you actually know just a tad about – unlike what you're now claiming.

Your opinion would just have a little more merit, and earn a little more respect, if you actually owned one, and could make your comments based on experience, and not opinion.
No it wouldn't. Only in the minds of a fanboy. If one was to take your "advice" to heart, I would have to buy and own any consumer recording device in the world before I can make an informed decision as to whether I want XLR, 192khz, 24bit recording, editing on-the-go and so on. Just like someone would have to buy any type of vehicle before they could decide that a motorcycle is propably no good for towing a trailer. You ought to have realised by now, that your argument utterly ignorant.


10 million people seem to think the iPhone is much more than a toy.
Ah, yes, there is that logical fallacy again.
With that train of thought, you can claim anything (thus making the claim utterly invalid as an argument):
10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore it must be a direct competitor to a notebook.
10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think that the iPhone has the best coverage.
10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think that the iPhone delivers the best connectivity.
10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think that downloading music is better than buying physcial copies of music.
10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think [insert irrational logical leap of own choice here].


Enjoy the competition. I respect that. Buy the competition. Its your right. Just don't spend your time slamming others with your opinion as if it was a fact of their life.
LOL, it shows you were personally offended by someone calling the joke of a "smartphone" a "toy". I know. It would be much easier for you to contain your ignorance if only other people living in that vacuum of yours were to interact with you, wouldn't it?

Just remember, Apple is grabbing an awful lot of marketshare from the "tools" with their "toy". AND FAST!! And the "tools" are working hard to copy the "toy".
Seriously, you really need to get a grip. High sales numbers doesn't mean "quality" or anything else. It just means that they are able to sell a lot. This is usually achieved by catering to the lowest common denominator. Take a look at McDonald's. Just because they sell a lot, doesn't mean that their food is nutritious or even healthy.
I'm always amazed when the iPhone crowd barks like mad. It's surprising because most of them would never try to make the argument that Windows is much better than OS X - and certainly not based on sales figures or even installed base figures. But when it comes to the iPhone, the fanboys like to quote sales figures to "back up" any and all claims they care to utter.



Am I a fanboy? I guess ANYONE who like Apple products must be a fanboy to a person who doesn't.
Nope. But blindly defending a corporation with invalid argumentation, ignoring facts and make incoherent claims all in an effort to defend said corporation makes you fall into that category.


If liking Apple products make me a fanboy, then I gladly, and proudly, wear your label. MY OPINION is that the iPhone is the BEST hand-held web browser on the market at this time.
Hmm, I notice you have stopped calling it a tool, but merely refer it to it as a "web browser". …

It also doubles as a phone, triples as the BEST hand-held music and movie/video player (for those who want that option), quadruples as an enjoyable gaming or entertainment device (for those who want that option), and is more user-friendly than most, if not all, other portable devices out there. It's features may not compete with every other feature of every competitor out there, but it was not designed to.
Again with this "it was not designed to". You realise it doesn't matter whether it was "designed to" do it? Of course it wasn't. No product coming to market was "designed to be" anything other than what it is. You cannot on one hand claim it is a tool or even close to the competition, and when countered then defend that claim by stating it "wasn't designed for that". Hello?

That doesn't make it a toy. It just makes it a toy to YOU.
Well, as I have said from the get-go, I'm comparing to other things that happen to be somewhat similar. "Smartphones" is even the monicker Apple themselves use and therefore it would be prudent to compare it to such things. You, on the other hand, would prefer to not comparing it to anything, and simply claim without backing it up, that it IS a tool.


Finally, anyone who feels the need to label another because their opinion differs, is obviously shallow and ignorant. I feel sad for you.

I don't "feel" a need to label anything because their opinion differ. I call you guys fanboys, just like I call a shovel a shovel, an idjit an idjit, and so on, because your entire argumentation is that of a fanboy. In other things, I'm pretty sure you're not a fanboy. But here, in this thread, your entire act is one of a fanboy.
 
Of course it's my opinion. But unlike you I back it with argumentation. Everything we utter can be said to be opinion when one has to put a value (concrete or metaphorically) on something. That goes without saying. But if you haven't noticed, some opinions are more valid than others. Not all opinions can simply be dismissed and replaced by any other opinion.

I simply said acknowledge it is YOUR OPINION ... something you did not do until now. You simply slammed the previous poster as if he was an idiot for calling the iPhone a tool. IT IS a "tool" TO HIM and in HIS OPINION.

Further, your ignorance when it comes to what bluetooth is used for, what "tethering" usually is referring to, and your demand that I gave examples of smartphones more capable than the iPhone shows how much of the competition you actually know just a tad about – unlike what you're now claiming.

I know that bluetooth can be used in many ways including things like hands-free devices. I would love to see it have bluetooth, but not having it does not make it a "toy" or eliminate it as a "smartphone". As fopr tethering. Apple DID NOT design the iPhone to be a wireless cellular modem for your computer. And they are offering it with unlimited data access for a fixed cost. AT&T did not set it up for that purpose. This is why the tethering app placed on the App store was removed as quickly as it was. The iPhone was designed to a a phone with lots of extras. It accomplished that. Do you disagree?

No it wouldn't. Only in the minds of a fanboy. If one was to take your "advice" to heart, I would have to buy and own any consumer recording device in the world before I can make an informed decision as to whether I want XLR, 192khz, 24bit recording, editing on-the-go and so on. Just like someone would have to buy any type of vehicle before they could decide that a motorcycle is propably no good for towing a trailer. You ought to have realised by now, that your argument utterly ignorant.

You really need to read my post more clearly. I simply stated that you are talking about the iPhone as if you KNOW it cannot be used as a "tool". It is a "tool" to anyone who decides it fills the need of a "tool" to them. It may not fill that need to you, but don't judge others who call it that.

Ah, yes, there is that logical fallacy again.
With that train of thought, you can claim anything (thus making the claim utterly invalid as an argument):
10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore it must be a direct competitor to a notebook.

My actual response ... the iPhone was not designed to be a computer, nor to do the things a computer does.

10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think that the iPhone has the best coverage.

I never said a word about coverage.

10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think that the iPhone delivers the best connectivity.

I never said a word about connectivity, or carrier, or anything of the sort.

10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think that downloading music is better than buying physcial copies of music.

My actual statement ... The iPhone is the BEST hand-held, portable music and movie/video player on the market ... ala the iPhone ... and few can argue that the iPhone is not the best portable music player on the market. Some may, but marketshare does not lie here. MY OPINION.

10 million people bought the iPhone, therefore they think [insert irrational logical leap of own choice here].

I'll fill in the blank for you ... that it is the best device in whichever category the buyer was buying it for (phone, music player, gaming device, portable web browser) for THEIR NEEDS.

LOL, it shows you were personally offended by someone calling the joke of a "smartphone" a "toy". I know. It would be much easier for you to contain your ignorance if only other people living in that vacuum of yours were to interact with you, wouldn't it?

I wasn't offended. I don't get offended. Your comments (insulting or derogatory) only show a true level of disrespect and ignorance.

Seriously, you really need to get a grip. High sales numbers doesn't mean "quality" or anything else. It just means that they are able to sell a lot. This is usually achieved by catering to the lowest common denominator. Take a look at McDonald's. Just because they sell a lot, doesn't mean that their food is nutritious or even healthy.

I never said anything about quality, except that IN MY OPINION, it was the best device in several categories ... hand-held web browsing and hand-held music / video playback. Re-read my posts if you must.

I'm always amazed when the iPhone crowd barks like mad. It's surprising because most of them would never try to make the argument that Windows is much better than OS X ...

It's not. And ALL of them would make that argument, not MOST. Some people like Windows, some people like OSX, but which is gaining marketshare? 'Nuf said.

... and certainly not based on sales figures or even installed base figures. ...

Windows installed base comes from many years of forcing themselves on computer manufacturers for discounted prices and the Mac OS being proprietary. Users are now beginning to realize that Apple designed a better OS with OSX. Marketshare is proving that ... even at Apple's premium pricing. Users are not switching just because they have extra cash lying around.

But when it comes to the iPhone, the fanboys like to quote sales figures to "back up" any and all claims they care to utter.

I simply quoted them to show that the "toy" is taking space from the "tools" so many people feel it can be the "tool" of their needs.

But blindly defending a corporation with invalid argumentation, ignoring facts and make incoherent claims all in an effort to defend said corporation makes you fall into that category.

I'm not blindly defending anything. I'm simply giving my opinion ... and making CLEAR upfront that it is just that ... MY OPINION. I'm not judging your position ... in fact I've stated that you have the right to it. Just don't try to force it on others or judge them for not agreeing with it.

Hmm, I notice you have stopped calling it a tool, but merely refer it to it as a "web browser". …

I never referred to it as a "tool" in the first place. I used the word you chose. I simply said that it can be deemed a "tool" (your word) by anyone that feels it fills the need of a "tool" for them. Please have enough character to raise yourself above nit picky snippings to try to prove yourself worthy of your arguments.

Again with this "it was not designed to". You realise it doesn't matter whether it was "designed to" do it? Of course it wasn't. No product coming to market was "designed to be" anything other than what it is. You cannot on one hand claim it is a tool or even close to the competition, and when countered then defend that claim by stating it "wasn't designed for that". Hello?

It is the best at what it does. A portable, hand held, everything device ... phone ... music player ... browser ... app device. It was designed to compete overall in all of those categories better than any other device out there. And sales figures DO PROVE that it has accomplished that.

Well, as I have said from the get-go, I'm comparing to other things that happen to be somewhat similar. "Smartphones" is even the monicker Apple themselves use and therefore it would be prudent to compare it to such things. You, on the other hand, would prefer to not comparing it to anything, and simply claim without backing it up, that it IS a tool.

It is a smartphone. A phone (or cell phone) makes calls ... maybe sends text messages ... maybe has features like time and calculator. A smartphone does MUCH more. It does more than some, less than others. The iPhone clearly does MUCH MORE than a phone/text device. Do you disagree?

I don't "feel" a need to label anything because their opinion differ[i/]. I call you guys fanboys, just like I call a shovel a shovel, an idjit an idjit, and so on, because your entire argumentation is that of a fanboy. In other things, I'm pretty sure you're not a fanboy. But here, in this thread, your entire act is one of a fanboy.


Thank you for acknowledging that there may be places in which I am not a "fanboy" (your label) ... and I've already acknowledged that I will gladly accept your fanboy label if it simply means that I like and support Apple products, because I do.

On a closing note, I will do the respectful thing and say ... "lets's just agree to disagree on this matter." It's obvious we have different perspective on it. I respect your right to your opinion and position. Perhaps you can find it within yourself to simply respect mine ... and agree to disagree. Peace.
 
Wahey! A bun fight! Glad I didn't miss it! :p

My tuppence:

I have a 16Gb iPhone which I bought several weeks ago. Before I had an Xda Orbit, which is a rebranded HTC P3300 running Windows Mobile Pro 6.

In the year I had my Xda the number of MMS messages I received I can count on one hand and the number I sent I can count on one finger.

I *hated* Pocket IE and was eternally thankful for Opera Mini, which was one of 4 3rd party applications I installed on it, the other 3 being Tom Tom Navigator, Google Maps and USBswitch, which was required to reset the USB connection coz it would balls up and The Missing Sync wouldn't be able to connect properly.

As for Pocket Office, Pocket Word was used once to view a job spec (for a dream job I subsequently got :D ) and Pocket Excel also once for viewing a spreadsheet related to the same job vacancy. Neither of which I needed to have viewed on my phone, I could have happily opened them on my desktop that evening.

In a month of owning an iPhone I have downloaded nearly 30 programs from the App Store; some games, other handy apps, like GPS based traffic information, the TV guide, Train times, Fring which lets me make Skype calls...

Yes there are some shortcomings on the iPhone, but when you weigh up the supposed benefits of the alternatives, they become pretty much moot.

Pocket Office is barely usable anyway, and copy and paste is nice but I can live without it until such time as an update comes along adding it.

I love my iPhone. :)
 
Apple DID NOT design the iPhone to be a wireless cellular modem for your computer. It was designed to a a phone with lots of extras. It accomplished that. Do you disagree?
Do you acknowledge that anything lacking on any product in comparison to the competition can be said to be "designed" to not be there?
If so, you will recognise that it's idiocy using that type of argument.
Name me one lack any product has when put of for sale, that wasn't "designed".

"Oh, my recorder is only capable of recording in 8 bit 32kHz. But that's okay and all fine and dandy, because it was DESIGNED to do that."
"Oh, my phone can't SMS, but that's okay, because it was designed to not do that."
"My computer lacks firewire, but that's okay, because it was designed without it"
"My pillow is way too uncomfortable because it was made from concrete, but that's okay, because that is how it was designed".
:rolleyes:




You really need to read my post more clearly. I simply stated that you are talking about the iPhone as if you KNOW it cannot be used as a "tool". It is a "tool" to anyone who decides it fills the need of a "tool" to them. It may not fill that need to you, but don't judge others who call it that.
In a pinch I can use an MP3-player/recorder to do a little bit of recording. But working in broadcast it will never be a tool. The same goes for the iPhone. You have to look at the competition. Yes, in a pinch, I'm pretty sure I could use the iPhone for a day or two and work around the issues, but for work, it will never be a tool.





My actual response ... the iPhone was not designed to be a computer, nor to do the things a computer does.
Sure, that's not ignorant at all – I never compared the iPhone to a computer. I can't help if you think that features any other smartphone and most PDAs has are only found on full-fledged computers.




I never said a word about coverage.
What is that? You have never heard of examples? In this context I used other idiotic claims to show you the parallels to what other similarly ignorant claims would be just as irrational to deduct from sales figures.




I never said a word about connectivity, or carrier, or anything of the sort.
For the love of …! See above.




My actual statement ... The iPhone is the BEST hand-held, portable music and movie/video player on the market ... IN MY OPINION.
So? It doesn't change anything that actually write it's your opinion or not.



I'll fill in the blank for you ... that it is the best device in whichever category they are buying it for (phone, music player, gaming device, portable we browser) for THEIR NEEDS.
Once again, you cannot deduct that from sales figures alone.




I wasn't offended. I don't get offended. Your insults only show your true level of disrespect and ignorance.
Haha, "ignorance"? Please, you really should do some research and use some common sense before you call other people ignorant.
With regards to respect, people who have earned my respect will get it.


I never said anything about quality, except that IN MY OPINION, it was the best device in several categories ... hand-held web browsing and hand-held music / vedoe playback. Re-read my posts if you must.
Wow! Uncapable of thinking just a tad longer and bit more abstract than that?



It's not. And ALL of them would make that argument, not MOST. Some people like Windows, some people like OSX, but which is gaining marketshare? 'Nuf said.
Wait, so you're claiming ALL iPhone fanboys will make the argument that Windows is better than OS X because they have higher sales figures?
Again, it doesn't matter if Windows is more popular, or that OS X is gaining ground in popularity as an appeal to popularity to prove anything qualitative is a logical fallacy.




Windows installed base comes from many years of forcing themselves on computer manufacturers for discounted prices and the Mac OS being proprietary. Users are now beginning to realize that Apple designed a better OS with OSX. Marketshare is proving that ... even at Apple's premium pricing. Users are not switching just because they have extra cash lying around.
Swoosh! You utterly missed the point once again. But you certainly proved my point.



I simply quoted them to show that the "toy" is taking space from the "tools" so many people feel it can be the "tool" of their needs.
See above.




I'm not blindly defending anything.
Really? Unwillingness to listen to facts, closing of eyes to your continual use of logical fallacies and strawman argumentation and so on, all in effort to defend a product with a huge amount of "designed" shortcomings compared to the competition: That must be close to the definition of "blindly defending".

I'm simply giving my opinion ... and making CLEAR upfront that it is just that ... MY OPINION. I'm not judging your position ... in fact I've stated that you have the right to it. Just don't try to force it on others or judge them for not agreeing with it.



I never referred to it as a "tool" in the first place. I simply said that it can be deemed a "tool" by anyone that feels it fills the need of a "tool" for them." Please have enough character to raise yourself above nit picky snippings to try to prove yourself worthy of your arguments.
You have vehemently tried to counter the mere notion that someone could consider the iPhone a toy, used pseudoargumentation in an attempt to prove it is a tool, if only some odd ball thinks of it as a tool, used sales figures in attempt to prove that any and all buyers of said product think of it as a tool. If that's not calling it a tool, although with actually uttering the word, I don't know what is.




It is the best at what it does. A portable, hand held, everything device ... phone ... music player ... browser ... app device.
Yes, I get your point, that at what it does it's "the best", and what it doesn't, it was simply "not designed to do". I get that. That's the reason I consider you a fanboy.

It was designed to compete overall in all of those categories better than any other device out there. And sales figures DO PROVE that it has accomplished that.
It only proves they hit a common nerve amongst many consumers.



It is a smartphone. A phone (or cell phone) makes calls ... maybe sends text messages ... maybe has features like time and calculator. A smartphone does MUCH more ... and the iPhone clearly does MUCH MORE. Do you disagree?
Yes, I disagree. When using the monicker "smartphone", I can think of a lot of features that make up such a thing. Most of which the iPhone lacks.




Thank you for acknowledging that there may be places in which I am not a "fanboy" (your label) ...
No problem, I view these discussions as "solitude" discussions, and I don't carry it over to another thread (or later in this, for that matter).

and I've already acknowledged that I will gladly accept your fanboy label if it simply means that I like and support Apple products, because I do.
I'm typing this on a 15" 2.33GHz MBP, so that's not what I meant. ;)

On a closing note, I will do the respectful thing and say ... "lets's just agree to disagree on this matter." It's obvious we have different perspective on it. I respect your right to your opinion and position. Perhaps you can find it within yourself to simply respect mine ... and agree to disagree. Peace.[/QUOTE]
 
So much for agreeing to disagree. :rolleyes:

Well, you can roll your eyes as much as like, but until now (this very moment) I missed you writing that last part.
However, this is a discussion forum, and trying to pull a carte blanche to claim anything while not being countered is rather ridiculous given the context of this forum.
 
Well, you can roll your eyes as much as like, but until now (this very moment) I missed you writing that last part.
However, this is a discussion forum, and trying to pull a carte blanche to claim anything while not being countered is rather ridiculous given the context of this forum.

Can you let things go? We have a difference of opinion. Leave it at that.
 
Can you let things go? We have a difference of opinion. Leave it at that.

Why? Does it annoy you that I actually respond to your efforts at making a not too embarrassing exit? :p

You know, rolling your eyes is a comment too. Apparently you are determined to being able to comment without being countered.
 
Why? Does it annoy you that I actually respond to your efforts at making a not too embarrassing exit? :p

You know, rolling your eyes is a comment too. Apparently you are determined to being able to comment without being countered.

I guess you've just proven that you can't let things go. So I'll be the adult here. Feel free to drop in the last word if you must. Have a pleasant evening. Peace.
 
I guess you've just proven that you can't let things go. So I'll be the adult here. Feel free to drop in the last word if you must. Have a pleasant evening. Peace.

Haha, and again you couldn't help yourself, but felt it necessary to make idiotic theories up in order to make an exit that wouldn't smell too much of the fact that you haven't been able to even argue part of your case. This is funny. Or as Apple would put it: You're much funner than most.
 
tool for some, toy for others, my dad uses visual voicemail a lot, saves him soooo much time, he does not have a lot of time, visual voice mail helps manage that, rewind to hear numbers he missed in a voicemail, plus all his contacts. Great tool for him, saving time, one of the most important things in your career and in business. FOR HIM, ITS A GREAT TIME SAVING TOOL. Im not even a fanboy, at all really, I just know that an iphone is more than a toy. period.

I feel like I am in a bad philosophy class. lol. word of the day. Fallacy! being waaay over used, feel like I am around someone that just learned a new word.
 
tool for some, toy for others, my dad uses visual voicemail a lot, saves him soooo much time, he does not have a lot of time, visual voice mail helps manage that, rewind to hear numbers he missed in a voicemail, plus all his contacts. Great tool for him, saving time, one of the most important things in your career and in business. FOR HIM, ITS A GREAT TIME SAVING TOOL. Im not even a fanboy, at all really, I just know that an iphone is more than a toy. period.

I feel like I am in a bad philosophy class. lol. word of the day. Fallacy! being waaay over used, feel like I am around someone that just learned a new word.

Perhaps you feel that way because you just did learn a new word. The reason it's used a lot in this discussion is because it describes precisely what sort of argumentation is used. Even with explanations as to why the arguments were logical fallacies, you guys continued to use them. Hence the repitition. I can't help if some people are very slow learners.

Your argument about your father being: Well, in that very special context I can see how visual voicemail becomes a feature that is a true tool for him. But really, those are very special circumstances.
You can also buy a Doro-phone (yes, it's a brand I never heard of before) with huge numbers (and it's cheap). It's made for people who have trouble seeing. It's simple, and for people who can't see very well, that's a good phone too. It doesn't mean that can be considered a smartphone or even a tool compared to other smartphones – except, of course, for the people who really have no other choice.
 
Perhaps you feel that way because you just did learn a new word. The reason it's used a lot in this discussion is because it describes precisely what sort of argumentation is used. Even with explanations as to why the arguments were logical fallacies, you guys continued to use them. Hence the repitition. I can't help if some people are very slow learners.

Your argument about your father being: Well, in that very special context I can see how visual voicemail becomes a feature that is a true tool for him. But really, those are very special circumstances.
You can also buy a Doro-phone (yes, it's a brand I never heard of before) with huge numbers (and it's cheap). It's made for people who have trouble seeing. It's simple, and for people who can't see very well, that's a good phone too. It doesn't mean that can be considered a smartphone or even a tool compared to other smartphones – except, of course, for the people who really have no other choice.


yes those are special circumstances just like the need for tethering bluetooth, a lot of todays business men are from the baby boomer generation, while they know some technology very well, most of them are just getting a firm grasp on internet, email usefulness, smart phones, so while my father example might be special circumstances, not to many people from the baby boomer generation are going to be worried about tethering bluetooth. the basic tools though, email, contact lists, visual voicemail, are important. keyboard expandability, not so much. So yes I gave examples using special circumstances, as did you.

Now with someone born as part of generation x or y, I can see when the lack of features your referring to become more of a problem, but as it is now x and y generations onlu make up about 40% of the market, compared to the baby boomer who make up about 60% of the consumer market.


On a side note, may I ask what phone you have? I mean I love my iphone but I honestly want something better, I always love technology expanding, so if there are better options out there, by all means educate me. I have had this phone for almost a year and a half, and there really has been no technological advances that I can see, in the cell phone market compared to the iphone.
 
Thanks. I just get tired of hearing all of the idiots who rant about the shortcomings of the iPhone. They seem to forget (or just ignore) the fact that Apple has been in the "phone" business for a year and is now the #3 phone seller (in total revenue). It was designed to compete in the cell phone market with Apple design and incredible portable web-browsing capabilities. In that area, it blows all smartphones and PDAs away. Plus it works as an iPod with all of its features. It was NOT designed to replace computers. If people want a full-featured computer that fits in the palm of their hand, with the design of an iPhone ... GOOD LUCK to them in finding one. Again, JMO.

Yep I agree. The Iphone is not out there as a replacement to the laptop. Although the platform it runs on is basically a mini me OS X. Its capable of a lot more than apple allow us to do. I think if Apple just let rip at it and made a lot more apps for it like word processors,spreadsheets, etc etc it would become the ultimate in cell phone technology. And with the release of the G1 i doubt the G1 will do as well. its been designed to compete and you just don't do that with a company who puts time and passion into there products. The iphone is'nt any phone its an Apple Phone and Steve demands perfection. Without Apple's passion for perfection they would never do as well as they do. one of my favorite Steve quotes are :
"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected."
This says it all if you ask me. Apple strives for perfection and it has almost always has succeed.
 
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