Unannounced Apple Product Found in Web Logs?

[Tosser]

So that makes it a toy, well good thing most poeple don't think like you. 😛

Hmm, yes. Good thing we have the lemming effect …
Seriously, though, if one cannot use it to get work done, it's hardly a tool, is it? You use tools to get work done – and watching youtube is hardly work. Hell, I wouldn't even be able to use it as research tool for the web because of the lack of copy/paste. So, yes, in my book, if it's useless as a tool but can be used for "fun and games" it's a toy. No more, no less.

P.S. I could also have mentioned (in no particular order):
no SDIO slot or CFIO slot, no way of connecting a proper keyboard, no tethering to your computer, no forwarding of SMS's, no multiple recipients of SMS's, the tie-in to iTunes (which cripples the device to such an extend I might as well bring the computer with me at all times), no swappable battery and so on. I propably forgot something, though.

 

[Spades]

Don't get me wrong. I like my iPod Touch. It's a very nice toy. But it's still a toy. The closest thing to work I can do with it is taking short notes.

And those notes don't even sync to my computer. 😡

 

[sfh]

I would love this if it had a DVD player but that is probably old technology that Apple will dump. 🙁

and look no firewire LOL

 

[snberk103]

I don't write software, or design websites - except my own - but I can clear up one question that has been bouncing around.

Screen Resolutions of the systems browsing a website can be captured, as well as screen colours (32 bit, 24 bit, etc). I know this because I have signed up for Google Analytics for my website, and there is a section in the reports where I can see what screen resolutions visitors are using/reporting. This is on top of all the usual stuff about OS, browser, etc. I assume that at the server end they can match individual resolutions to browsers and OSes.

As someone said above, this story would have been alot more useful if the IP addresses had also been reported.

 

[Sulley Muntari]

Hmm, yes. Good thing we have the lemming effect …
Seriously, though, if one cannot use it to get work done, it's hardly a tool, is it? You use tools to get work done – and watching youtube is hardly work. Hell, I wouldn't even be able to use it as research tool for the web because of the lack of copy/paste. So, yes, in my book, if it's useless as a tool but can be used for "fun and games" it's a toy. No more, no less.

P.S. I could also have mentioned (in no particular order):
no SDIO slot or CFIO slot, no way of connecting a proper keyboard, no tethering to your computer, no forwarding of SMS's, no multiple recipients of SMS's, the tie-in to iTunes (which cripples the device to such an extend I might as well bring the computer with me at all times), no swappable battery and so on. I propably forgot something, though.

How about a dvd drive? 😛

 

[wrxdrunkie]

This is exactly what I want, a big iphone, with osx, that I can use for office and all my notes at school, with handwriting recognition, take it home, dock it in something sleek with bluetooth keyboard/mouse, use as desktop.

 

[Tosser]

How about a dvd drive? 😛

You realise that almost all PDAs and most smartphones have those hardware features (and more), and that the software features I mentioned are bog-standard features on such things? It's not asking for much – it's comparing the iphone to the very products it's competing with.
Your little joke about including a dvd-drive shows how little you know about "tools" in this context and that your idea that the iPhone is not a toy but a tool stems from a huge vacuum of knowledge.

 

[BillyShears]

You cannot actually create or edit anything with it [iPhone]. So yes, that's a toy in my mind.
Heck, you can't even use it as a thumb drive.

So things are toys if you can't create or edit anything with them? First problem is that even by your definition, you can take photos with iPhone. Crappy photos, but it would still qualify as a non-toy. You also say "you can't even use it as a thumb drive", but thumb drives neither create nor edit anything.

Next, you overlook several uses:

1. Making and receiving phone calls
2. Sending and receiving emails/text messages
3. Storing/Retrieving contacts
4. Checking stock prices
5. Getting directions
6. Checking time in around the world
7. Browsing websites / Using company web apps

All of these are "business" uses, not something I would buy a "toy" to do. If you don't have a use for these features, that doesn't make it a toy, it just means you're not in the target market. I don't know how to cook, but that doesn't make all cooking utensils "toys."

 

[Tosser]

So things are toys if you can't create or edit anything with them?

That's part of it. Not the whole argument. You should read my posts a bit more careful before you continue with your strawman argumentation.

First problem is that even by your definition, you can take photos with iPhone. Crappy photos, but it would still qualify as a non-toy.

Besides seeing above (which you really should), you're really trying too hard, if you think taking a snapshot with a crap cell phone suddenly makes it into a tool. Especially when compared to real smartphones and PDAs. Btw, how many do you think uses the camera in the phone as a tool for work?

You also say "you can't even use it as a thumb drive", but thumb drives neither create nor edit anything.

That's true, and if your misrepresentation of my argument were spot on, you would be right. However, it is far from being the case. USB Mass Storage is very useful (as is any Disk Mode) to load contents and documents on and off a device.

Next, you overlook several uses:
[*]Making and receiving phone calls

Yes, it does that. Such is the nature of a PHONE.

[*]Sending and receiving emails/text messages

Yes, a crippled version of both compared to the competitors.

[*]Storing/Retrieving contacts

LOL, yes, and this too is crippled. Able to receive a contact through, say, Bluetooth and add it to your contact list? Nope. The competitors are.

[*]Checking stock prices

this I don't consider a "tool for work". You might as well go "Checking webmail". The information presented in that widget is hardly a tool

[*]Getting directions

Grasping at straws, I see

[*]Checking time in around the world

LOL, watch it, or your hands might slip.

[*]Browsing websites / Using company web apps

Browsin websites? I already gave you the "browsing". I also said I was unable to use it as a research tool because of the lack of copy/paste.
In fact, most of the things you mention are utterly crippled versions of what the competitors have, rendering it useless as a tool.

All of these are "business" uses,[…]

Yes, "uses", not "tools".

not something I would buy a "toy" to do.

Well, what can you do with it? I'm serious
If you write, you cannot use it as the competitors where you can add an external proper keyboard.
If you need to take a document with you and use on the go (on the phone) you can't unless you mail it to yourself or upload it to the web or make it present on the network.
You cannot sms several people at once, you cannot receive an MMS, and so on.
As mentioned, there are many more things, that puts the iPhone into the toy-category. Some of the features look good on paper, but in the real world you have to work around many, many things, just to get close to what the competitors can do.

If you don't have a use for these features, that doesn't make it a toy, it just means you're not in the target market.

LOL, the apologists eternal excuse for any critique of his favourite toy.
The reality is that the iPhone does a little bit of what real smarthpones and PDAs do. Except for showing web pages (notice I didn't use the word "browsing") the competitors are much more useful. And in comparison the iPhone is nothing more than a toy.

I don't know how to cook, but that doesn't make all cooking utensils "toys."

Can you use a more contrived analogy? If you want to talk about utensils, the iPhone is like a blunt knife, a fork with one prong the size of a toothpick, or a spoon shaped like this:
http://www.andrewspartyrental.com/ShopList/images/sspiespat.jpg

 

[cHinds78]

It wouldnt really suprise me if apple came out with some sort of subnotebook/netbook. Does anyone remember the Powerbook 200 Duos? I think they had an eight inch screen and were very light. Granted they wernt very cheap, but notebook prices have gone down quite a bit since then.

Speaking of cheap notebooks. I do believe that apple is offering their cheapest laptops ever at $999 ($849 refurbeed). IT wasn't that long ago that the cheapest apple laptop you could get was $1699 and it was pretty chincy compared to today's laptops. Even the ibooks started out at $1299 just a few short years ago. So lets not complain to much about apples 'over-priced' new laptops

 

[ddTaylor]

How Sweet It Is:

That would be worth buying - unlike the new MBP update!

Nice job with the mock-up...

D

 

[BillyShears]

If you want to talk about utensils, the iPhone is like a blunt knife, a fork with one prong the size of a toothpick, or a spoon shaped like this:
http://www.andrewspartyrental.com/ShopList/images/sspiespat.jpg

So it is a tool, but it's just a bad tool.

 

[macshark]

Steve Jobs-speak: ""We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk, and our DNA will not let us ship that. "

Translation: "Apple will introduce a $600 netbook soon."

 

[Tosser]

So it is a tool, but it's just a bad tool.

Nope. It's a toy, posing as a tool, yet it's useless, so it's not a tool. A tool is something that helps you get your job done, a toy is not.

 

[BillyShears]

A tool is something that helps you get your job done, a toy is not.

You've already conceded it functions as a cell phone, are you now claiming cell phones don't help you get your job done? But somehow MMS does?

 

[wrxdrunkie]

lol, this ****ing debate about wether it is a tool is ridicuolous, just because it is MORE fun than certain pda/smartphones does not make it a toy, it helps you get A LOT done, being a college student, I can email prof. instantly and quickly, I get so much more done during the day having quick communication with people through email, see grades posted immediatly, email notes to yourself, calendar for upcoming tests/assignments, all of which sync with my computer.


If this was the only phone that did this in the world would it be a toy or a tool or dear i say BOTH! My guess would be if the iphone was the only device that did these things, you would refer to it as a tool as well, but suddenly since there are competitors that have these same features, just with less fun options, its a TOY.

In addition, you sound like atechologically smart person, what about the people that are not? My dad, about 60, is not very technologicially advanced, he got an iphone and its a wonderful tool for him, he cant hear well and is a busy man so he can look at his voice mails, and check by priority, go back and rewind if he did not catch a number or could not hear, he does not have to sit there for 35 minutes and listen to each and every voicemail, wait till the end "delete, save or repeat" he does not have unlimited time so this helps him get more done throughout the day, now has all of his contacts syned up from years of using the address book in outlook, no longer does he say "there address is on my work computer" everything he needs is right there. We can be on vacation and if my dad gets an important email he can reply almost anywhere. He does not even have any music on his phone anymore or play any games. It is definatly a tool, not a "toy" for him.


One of the best tools though, the internet, if I do not know the answer to something, I can use the internet right away, and find the answer. The internet is a TOOL for when say you research, and a TOY when you say, play online poker.

As you can see the iphone serves many different purposes, and can help many people in this world be MORE productive, get more done in a day, learn more in a day. Yup the iphone is a great tool... and toy 🙂 just depends who you are and what you use it for.


I guess though if you just refer to this as what "you consider a tool" then we could argue this all day, You can check stock prices! "na i dont consider that a tool, its a toy"

"wel it does this to!"

"na that does not count either i dont consider that a tool either"

"it can get directions"

"nope still not a tool, a toy gives you directions to, maps are toys"


give me a break 🙄

 

[Tosser]

You've already conceded it functions as a cell phone, are you now claiming cell phones don't help you get your job done? But somehow MMS does?

As mentioned, you're misrepresenting what I say, by pretending that that statement was the ONLY part of the argument. Using that sort of "argument" is called strawman argumentation. Look it up. It's pure intellectual dishonesty.

lol, this ****ing debate about wether it is a tool is ridicuolous, just because it is MORE fun than certain pda/smartphones does not make it a toy, it helps you get A LOT done, being a college student, I can email prof. instantly and quickly, I get so much more done during the day having quick communication with people through email, see grades posted immediatly, email notes to yourself, calendar for upcoming tests/assignments, all of which sync with my computer.


If this was the only phone that did this in the world would it be a toy or a tool or dear i say BOTH! My guess would be if the iphone was the only device that did these things, you would refer to it as a tool as well, but suddenly since there are competitors that have these same features, just with less fun options, its a TOY.

In addition, you sound like atechologically smart person, what about the people that are not? My dad, about 60, is not very technologicially advanced, he got an iphone and its a wonderful tool for him, he cant hear well and is a busy man so he can look at his voice mails, and check by priority, go back and rewind if he did not catch a number or could not hear, he does not have to sit there for 35 minutes and listen to each and every voicemail, wait till the end "delete, save or repeat" he does not have unlimited time so this helps him get more done throughout the day, now has all of his contacts syned up from years of using the address book in outlook, no longer does he say "there address is on my work computer" everything he needs is right there. We can be on vacation and if my dad gets an important email he can reply almost anywhere. He does not even have any music on his phone anymore or play any games. It is definatly a tool, not a "toy" for him.


One of the best tools though, the internet, if I do not know the answer to something, I can use the internet right away, and find the answer. The internet is a TOOL for when say you research, and a TOY when you say, play online poker.

As you can see the iphone serves many different purposes, and can help many people in this world be MORE productive, get more done in a day, learn more in a day. Yup the iphone is a great tool... and toy 🙂 just depends who you are and what you use it for.


I guess though if you just refer to this as what "you consider a tool" then we could argue this all day, You can check stock prices! "na i dont consider that a tool, its a toy"

"wel it does this to!"

"na that does not count either i dont consider that a tool either"

"it can get directions"

"nope still not a tool, a toy gives you directions to, maps are toys"


give me a break 🙄

Drunkie, see above – you so need it.

 

[MacRonin]

A blatent cross-forum posting from a similar thread...

10" convertible netbook/tablet with WiFi & 3G; 'always available' internet access.

2GB RAM, 64GB SSD, nVidia 9400M.

Multi-touch AND stylus input, stylus included & stored in the device.

Standard Apple VOIP software for 'unlimited' telephone calls (United States, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico & US Virgin Islands).

GPS & backlit keyboard standard.

3 hour battery, MagSafe charging port. Hot-swap capable battery with access as seen on new uni-body MacBooks.

Stereo BlueTooth headset (with microphone) for an extra US$129.00!

Subsidized through AT&T, US$699.00; two-year contract, US$79.00/month unlimited data (including VOIP) plan.

Let the flaming begin!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.
It is the source of all true art and science.

Albert Einstein

 

[BillyShears]

As mentioned, you're misrepresenting what I say, by pretending that that statement was the ONLY part of the argument. Using that sort of "argument" is called strawman argumentation. Look it up. It's pure intellectual dishonesty.

I don't think we're on the same page, here. Here's my argument:

1. A toy is something that serves no useful business purpose, while a tool is something that does serve a useful business purpose
2. The iPhone functions, at the very least, and however poorly, as a telephone
3. Telephone functionality is a useful business purpose
4. Therefore, the iPhone serves a useful business purpose
5. Therefore, the iPhone is a tool, and not a toy

Even if there are competitors with more and better features, the iPhone still serves a useful business purpose, and is therefore a tool.

The only way to get around this is if you deny that telephone functionality is a useful business purpose. Do you deny that telephone functionality is a useful business purpose?

 

[Tosser]

I don't think we're on the same page, here. Here's my argument:

1. A toy is something that serves no useful business purpose, while a tool is something that does serve a useful business purpose
2. The iPhone functions, at the very least, and however poorly, as a telephone
3. Telephone functionality is a useful business purpose
4. Therefore, the iPhone serves a useful business purpose
5. Therefore, the iPhone is a tool, and not a toy

Even if there are competitors with more and better features, the iPhone still serves a useful business purpose, and is therefore a tool.

The only way to get around this is if you deny that telephone functionality is a useful business purpose. Do you deny that telephone functionality is a useful business purpose?

1: A rock cannot fly.
2: Mother cannot fly.
3: Ergo mother is a rock.
(from the play Erasmus Montanus)

Look, what I'm saying with the above, is that even though it does some of what real smartphones and PDA are capable of, doesn't make it a tool to be compared with real smartphones and PDAs. By comparison it's a toy –by comparison – mostly because what little it does, it does half assed.

Yes, I can go on the web with it. But I can go on the web with a WAP phone too, but that feature is useless as a tool, because on the WAP phone it's slow, it has a too small screen, and did I mention it's too slow? The iPhone aren't too slow, but it has another problem: Yes, I can look up a webpage and find information, but the moment I need to actually use it as a tool, and do more than simply bookmark a page, I'm shyt out of luck, because I cannot copy/paste and so on. Thus even the web features becomes a toy in comparison with real smartphones.

If "phone features" –*which these days includes full SMS and MMS capabilities aren't even available on the iPhone, then it's not a tool. Even though I grant you that dialing a number and talking to someone indeed can be called a tool feature, that doesn't make the iPhone as a whole a tool by comparison.
Unlike some of you guys (perhaps not you - but some of the other guys) seem to live in a vacuum, where the only thing that exist are apple products. The rest of us draw parallels and have to compete with non-Apple users, and our customers only care if the deadline are met and how good the end product is, not that I had to spend time working around multiple designed flaws in order to pretend my toy is a real tool.

 

[wrxdrunkie]

1: A rock cannot fly.
2: Mother cannot fly.
3: Ergo mother is a rock.
(from the play Erasmus Montanus)

Look, what I'm saying with the above, is that even though it does some of what real smartphones and PDA are capable of, doesn't make it a tool to be compared with real smartphones and PDAs. By comparison it's a toy –by comparison – mostly because what little it does, it does half assed.

Yes, I can go on the web with it. But I can go on the web with a WAP phone too, but that feature is useless as a tool, because on the WAP phone it's slow, it has a too small screen, and did I mention it's too slow? The iPhone aren't too slow, but it has another problem: Yes, I can look up a webpage and find information, but the moment I need to actually use it as a tool, and do more than simply bookmark a page, I'm shyt out of luck, because I cannot copy/paste and so on. Thus even the web features becomes a toy in comparison with real smartphones.

If "phone features" –*which these days includes full SMS and MMS capabilities aren't even available on the iPhone, then it's not a tool. Even though I grant you that dialing a number and talking to someone indeed can be called a tool feature, that doesn't make the iPhone as a whole a tool by comparison.
Unlike some of you guys (perhaps not you - but some of the other guys) seem to live in a vacuum, where the only thing that exist are apple products. The rest of us draw parallels and have to compete with non-Apple users, and our customers only care if the deadline are met and how good the end product is, not that I had to spend time working around multiple designed flaws in order to pretend my toy is a real tool.

did you even read the part about my dad, I know it was a long post, specificially things like visual voice mail, can save really busy business men a lot of time for missed calls, that alone makes it a great tool, time, time is money, the iphone saves you time, a lot. For my father, as an example, the Iphone is a tool and only a tool, no games are played, no music is even on the thing, he uses it for work. There might be competition out there, but the thing above all is the visual voicemail, saves him loads of time, especially because he is hard of hearing. It helps him in business, talking to tennants etc. It helps a lot of people, if the device was just less fun, like no music, movies, games, it would be a lot harder to argue that. So for some people, it might be a toy first, but for some it might be a tool first. Like my father, maybe in your situation it is a toy, some people though, like my dad, there time is so limited, the contacts/email/visual voicemail is a great tool, regaurdless if it meets you definition or not.
For you in your very specific situation, it is more of a wanna be tool.

For others, like my dad, it is more of a tool, there is no phone he would replace it with if it does not have visual voicemail, it saves him WAY to much time, is there another phone on the market that even has that feature? He needs the basics, email, phone, all his contacts, time saving visual voicemail.

 

[wrxdrunkie]

double post

 

[kamm]

lol, this ****ing debate about wether it is a tool is ridicuolous, just because it is MORE fun than certain pda/smartphones does not make it a toy, it helps you get A LOT done, being a college student, I can email prof. instantly and quickly, I get so much more done during the day having quick communication with people through email, see grades posted immediatly, email notes to yourself, calendar for upcoming tests/assignments, all of which sync with my computer.

UhhhoOOOOhhh, what a mahhhhhgicckkkkkk!

Newsflash: any phone allowoed you to do it for several years now, and several smartphone sported the same and more.

If this was the only phone that did this in the world would it be a toy or a tool or dear i say BOTH! My guess would be if the iphone was the only device that did these things, you would refer to it as a tool as well, but suddenly since there are competitors that have these same features, just with less fun options, its a TOY.

You got it quite backwards, pal: iPhone followed dozens of more advanced phones so compared to them: yes, it is a toy.

A "smart" phone with no copy/paste? ROFLMAO

 

[wrxdrunkie]

UhhhoOOOOhhh, what a mahhhhhgicckkkkkk!

Newsflash: any phone allowoed you to do it for several years now, and several smartphone sported the same and more.




You got it quite backwards, pal: iPhone followed dozens of more advanced phones so compared to them: yes, it is a toy.

A "smart" phone with no copy/paste? ROFLMAO

listen, I know the features were around with all the other smart phones, I was just saying the iphone, as a device is a great tool, still helps get things done, sure there may be better ones, but the device is still a good tool, if you want to have your own meaning for it and say "well compared to other devices its a toy" its still a tool though, not compared to other devices it is a great tool, so it does not magicially lose that definition for me when you compare a different phone to it that has more features, the basis of the deivce, the definition of the device, is still a tool for me and many many others.

 

[Mr Maui]

... if you think taking a snapshot with a crap cell phone suddenly makes it into a tool. Especially when compared to real smartphones and PDAs. Btw, how many do you think uses the camera in the phone as a tool for work?

Apple did not design the iPhone for high-quality picture-taking. That is what digital cameras are for.

... USB Mass Storage is very useful (as is any Disk Mode) to load contents and documents on and off a device.

Apple did not design the iPhone to be used as a USB mass storage device. Buy that if you want one.

Yes, it does that. Such is the nature of a PHONE.

DUH! Guess it has one feature that all cell phones have. Making calls. Go figure. You are so bright.

Yes, a crippled version of both compared to the competitors.

Then buy the competitor brands. Reminder ... iPhone outsold RIMM's entire Blackberry lineup last quarter. And most (if not all) other smartphones and PDAs to boot! A lot of people (10m+) must love "toys".

LOL, yes, and this too is crippled. Able to receive a contact through, say, Bluetooth and add it to your contact list? Nope. The competitors are.

What are you trying to update it from with bluetooth. IPhone syncs perfectly with Mac's Calendar and Contacts. And I believe it now accepts push mail contacts etc.

[*]Checking stock prices ... this I don't consider a "tool for work". You might as well go "Checking webmail". The information presented in that widget is hardly a tool

You may not, but people who are heavily vested in trading regularly, may very well consider it a tool. It may be a widget, but it is faster than any other device for checking stock quotes. Click the icon. Done. Period.

Browsin websites? I already gave you the "browsing". I also said I was unable to use it as a research tool because of the lack of copy/paste. In fact, most of the things you mention are utterly crippled versions of what the competitors have, rendering it useless as a tool.

Do you own an iPhone? I guess you never use any of the features. You should have bought an iPod. If you don't own one, then you should remain silent.

Well, what can you do with it? I'm serious
If you write, you cannot use it as the competitors where you can add an external proper keyboard.

Are you serious? Who adds an external keyboard to a phone? Use a laptop!

If you need to take a document with you and use on the go (on the phone) you can't unless you mail it to yourself or upload it to the web or make it present on the network.

Such a task. Much more effort than copying to another smartphone that can "handle all of these 'features' " Sad argument.

You cannot sms several people at once, ...

Why would you want to if you are out of your teen years.

... you cannot receive an MMS, and so on.

Critical misstep by Apple apparently. I've had competitor's phones and have never received a single MMS. They are not that high in demand.

As mentioned, there are many more things, that puts the iPhone into the toy-category. Some of the features look good on paper, but in the real world you have to work around many, many things, just to get close to what the competitors can do.

How many apps can you download to your "other" smartphones. Last I heard there were 200,000+ for the iPhone. Many of these apps are designed as something "other than" toys. Sit down and write to the programmers working hard to write them that their stuff is simply useless "toy" applications.

Again I ask, do you own an iPhone? If you do, then you must like toys (by your own label). If you don't, you're a fool for rambling on so much about what you have no clue on.

LOL, the apologists eternal excuse for any critique of his favourite toy. The reality is that the iPhone does a little bit of what real smarthpones and PDAs do. Except for showing web pages (notice I didn't use the word "browsing") the competitors are much more useful. And in comparison the iPhone is nothing more than a toy.

Maybe you should cite some examples of the "real" smartphones you are referencing and their features before making generic comments such as this one. And please, forget copy and paste. That will arrive in a software update very soon. Apple did not originally design the iPhone as a PDA. It was designed as a cell phone and portable web browsing device. It has evolved tremendously. Apple has come a long with with only two versions of the phone. All of your competitors smartphones and PDAs have been around for much longer times. Their early attempts couldn't come close to the iPhone's first two generations.

Besides, if the iPhone is so "toyish", why are the competitors scrambling to copy it? LOL

I accept your right to your own opinion, but if you like the competitors versions, buy them and go hang out at their blogs or forums with your useless rants.

Can you use a more contrived analogy? If you want to talk about utensils, the iPhone is like a blunt knife, a fork with one prong the size of a toothpick, or a spoon shaped like this:
http://www.andrewspartyrental.com/ShopList/images/sspiespat.jpg

And your arguments are rather like listening to a "how-to" talk show being broadcast in an ancient Greek dialect. About as useful as using water to put out a grease fire. JMO