Understanding MBP Graphics - Iris Pro vs NVIDIA GT 750M

[joejoejoe]

Ok, I can make this a super simple decision.

If you want to figure out if Apple finally got cooling systems for dedicated graphics chips in laptops right after eight years of failure, and wish to be SOL when your warranty is up - GET THE NVIDIA MODEL.

If you want it to just work and aren't going to run 3DMark competitively - GET THE IRIS MODEL!

The retina cooling system seems far better than what they've had in the past.. it actually has small side vents to take in air now, which is a step forward. My Thinkpad had that in the 90s, but better late than never I guess.

I'd get Iris. I have learned time and time again, that I do not use the dedicated video as often as I thought I would. Further, Intel has bridged the gap between integrated & discrete so well over the past three years that unless you are playing the newest games you'll never notice the difference, besides how much cooler your lap is.

Forget the future. Buy for now. If you require a future proof laptop, don't buy something with soldered in RAM & a proprietary storage solution, you will be SOL anyway.

Fair, but 4k monitor support is a pretty big deal. And that's applicable to now, not the future.

 

[notrack]

Does anyone know whether the dGPU is beneficial for rendering huge RAW files (80-100 MB medium format photos) in Aperture?

Afaik Aperture re-renders the RAWs on-the-fly at every little brush stroke that is made.

I'm asking because
(1) the Nvidia+Apertrue+Mavericks in some cases cause frequent kernal panics and
(2) when turning off the dGPU you can't use an external display.

 

[UBS28]

Don't forget that any comparisons in this thread made with the Iris Pro vs 750m are not relevant anymore. The performance of the 750m has dramatically improved with newer drivers on the Windows side. There is also a new beta driver now that boosts the performance of the 750m alot which should come out soon.

If one was to measure the Iris Pro vs 750m with the latest drivers, you'd see much higher numbers for the 750m on the Windows side than the original results back in 2013.

 

[Fractaleyes]

It depends on the apps you use. If you stick entirely to Apple's own apps, it behaves somewhat reasonably. Having iPhoto open and managing your library will call the dGPU to action for absolutely no understandable reason. Safari and Quicktime player keep with the Iris Pro even when Flash shows up.

Chrome, Opera, or just about any other browser will trigger the dGPU as soon as any Flash shows up (some sooner) and the dGPU will never turn off again once the Flash tab is closed. You have to shut down Chrome completely CMD+Q.
VLC triggers the dGPU.
Also keep in mind the dGPU is active even if one offending app is only open, maybe in the background like vlc because you clicked a movie two hours ago. VLC doesn't shut down on its own like most Mac apps don't. It stays there open even if no video is playing all the time preventing the dGPU from turning off.

Not using gfxCardStatus just limits the apps you can use quite a lot to pretty much all Apple stuff. If you run any external screen, gfxCardStatus is useless and you will need to restart all these apps in order to force Iris Pro again after disconnecting the external(more annoying this is with projectors).

Download it, even if just to see which GPU is active.

I just wanted to point out that this is incorrect, at least for me.
VLC does not activate my dGPU, and neither does firefox when playing a video on youtube.
However two other media players I tried did activate my dGPU.

I just bought a 16/512 w/ nVidia dGPU recently.

 

[NuMystic]

So the two things I do which put my late 2009 iMac Core 2 Duo under the heaviest ongoing load are:

- Watching 720/1080 .mkv movies with VLC sent via physical mini DVI/HDMI cable to my 47" TV set up as an external monitor
- Having a (sometimes ridiculously) large number of tabs and windows open in Safari leading to the inevitable "pages not responding / refresh" issue.


I'm looking at the refurbs available and being that they all come with 8GB memory which is not user expandable, it seems like the only two areas which will have any real impact in these areas are the processor and graphics card?

Would appreciate your thoughts on which of the systems below will give me the most bang for the buck and least diminishing return vs expense.

For my video output to the TV would there even be a notable difference between the Iris, 750M, and 650M?



Refurbished 21.5-inch iMac 2.7GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
Originally released September 2013
21.5-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 1920-by-1080 resolution
Intel Iris Pro graphics
$1,099.00
Save $200.00
15% off

Refurbished 21.5-inch iMac 2.9GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
Originally released October 2012
21.5-inch LED-backlit glossy widescreen display

NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 512MB
$1,199.00
Save $300.00
20% off

Refurbished 21.5-inch iMac 2.9GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
Originally released September 2013
21.5-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 1920-by-1080 resolution
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory
$1,269.00
Save $230.00
15% off

Refurbished 21.5-inch iMac 3.1GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
Originally released September 2013
21.5-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 1920-by-1080 resolution
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory
$1,439.00

 

[TatterSalad]

And looking down the road...

The OP was looking for contrast, and direction of Iris (intel) and NVIDIA, and and the response has been bushels of performance stuff, but that's now. He wants to know about the direction, and longevity of his SW and hardware dollar as a function of which direction he points it.
Easily looking further down the road, it is no secret that Intel has developed 14nm technology on their wafers. (Well, one wafer at a time; each wafer worth $5M.)
Their SW departments are now making sure the burn remains conformal to I7 etc. technology. So this doesn't bring anything earthshaking to SW changes,but it changes the performance picture in (soon) allowing fire breather chips to run at markedly less power, less heat, and therefore allow your handheld or laptop to handle SERIOUS graphics, positional IO, goggles, sound etc etc. Their past years of encouraging the transfer of video (game engine) management to the Core has been for a reason.
The distance between some of the traces on this chip is only 30 atoms apart after all, and IMHO THAT is the direction... down the road.

 

[mrmali]

its a such a foolish subject that to talk cause if you re a producer or a film maker you must buy within 750m gpu but on the other hand of you wanna play game with your rmbp you don't have to pay so much money for that you can easily buy a basic desktop computer like dell or asus with an high performance machine within these money that you are effort to buy rmbp

 

[pragmatous]

I have the macbook pro classic mid 2012 15" with the 650m discreet card.

So with the macbook pro and the discreet card what happens, at least on mine, is that it uses the onboard cGPU (GPU on the CPU) until you do something graphics intensive. It automatically switches seamlessly to the more powerful GPU.

The discrete GPU will always be faster because it has dedicated GDDR5 super fast RAM plus the dGPU. Where as the cGPU is using your shared DDR3 much slower RAM and it's internal GPU which isn't even close as advanced as nvidias GPU.

Now I believe the Iris has onboard RAM but I think it's only 128mb verses the 1GB on the current discreet card.

Bottom line is this:
If you do anything video intensive get the discrete card. If you do not ever ever plan to do any kind of video editing, video games, video this, video that then you don't need a discrete graphics card.

I was hoping someone could help me understand the new (MBP Retina Oct 2013) 15" model specs, between the high and low end models in terms of graphics. I know that I will be needing (wanting/future-proofing) the 512GB SSD and the 16GB RAM... but is there a particular benefit/drawback using Iris Pro versus the NVIDIA card?

My last computer was purchased in early 2006... hard to believe this thing is still running (poorly as of late), but I'm eager to get back into the current technology - but money is an issue and this new purchase needs to last. I'm okay with spending $2500'ish on a new laptop assuming it will last me 5 or more years. (Especially considering my current investment has lasted 7+ years)

Needless to say, I'm a little out of the times and I'm not confident about the graphics end of things. As for the other components, I'm good with those. If there are any words of wisdom or links you might provide, I'd be happy to hear them.

Essentially, it boils down to this - is it better to use Iris Pro and line-item upgrade the lower end system, or just go with the high end system and call it a day...?

Many thanks and all the best!

 

[magz1]

Wow, I've read through all the posts, and there's some really good discussion on this topic. I've posted a similar question on apple.stackexchange.com, but only received a single response.

I'm interested to know from people with the dGPU and using Windows in bootcamp, what kind of (terrible) battery life are you getting?

As per my post on stackexchange, I work a lot on Magento and Drupal site development, and occasionally develop the odd nopCommerce (.NET based) project under Windows. I also make use of Adobe Photoshop CC for slicing up web designs handed over to me, and fool around in Sketchup every now and then. I don't play games on my laptop. So I believe that my graphics processing needs are very small.

Here is my current situation:

• I'd say my potential Windows to OSX usage would be about 25:75
• I'm currently working on a Sony Vaio running Windows 8.1 and the built-in Intel HD3000 iGPU suits my needs just fine for the applications I run. But I get 2.5 hours on battery.
• Adobe Photoshop CC (I can get a license for either Windows or OSX)
• I occasionally connect my notebook to my Dell U2713HM (2560x1440)
• On Windows I run Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate, SQL Server Express with Advanced Services, MS Office 2013, MS Visio 2013, MS Project 2013, and NetBeans

I also came across this from: http://www.archagon.net/a-few-pointless-thoughts/2013/12/19/late-2013-15-macbook-pro

Con: Discrete graphics really eat through your battery life

I am considering the Iris Pro 5200 only option on the base rMBP 15, specd to 2.3Ghz, 16GB memory and 512GB storage ... this is actually costing me the equivalent to 90 USD more than the similarly specd top-end model with the Nvidia 750M!!

So if I decide to go with the top-end rMBP with the Nvidia 750m, would it make any difference to run gfxCardStatus in integrated mode only and run Windows 8.1 inside a Parallels VM, versus running Windows 8.1 in bootcamp with the 750M on always?

If somehow, Apple update bootcamp to include drivers for the Iris Pro that will then allow for dynamic switching between iGPU and dGPU (Optimus) in Windows under bootcamp, I don't mind settling for the top-end rMBP...but I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

I would certainly love to maximize my hours of usage on battery, but I'm really at crossroads with which direction to head, as I'm unsure that the Iris Pro only option will suffice my needs. I would sincerely appreciate any advice in this regard. Thanks!

 

[Jeff Flowerday]

Wow, I've read through all the posts, and there's some really good discussion on this topic. I've posted a similar question on apple.stackexchange.com, but only received a single response.

I'm interested to know from people with the dGPU and using Windows in bootcamp, what kind of (terrible) battery life are you getting?

As per my post on stackexchange, I work a lot on Magento and Drupal site development, and occasionally develop the odd nopCommerce (.NET based) project under Windows. I also make use of Adobe Photoshop CC for slicing up web designs handed over to me, and fool around in Sketchup every now and then. I don't play games on my laptop. So I believe that my graphics processing needs are very small.

Here is my current situation:

• I'd say my potential Windows to OSX usage would be about 25:75
• I'm currently working on a Sony Vaio running Windows 8.1 and the built-in Intel HD3000 iGPU suits my needs just fine for the applications I run. But I get 2.5 hours on battery.
• Adobe Photoshop CC (I can get a license for either Windows or OSX)
• I occasionally connect my notebook to my Dell U2713HM (2560x1440)
• On Windows I run Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate, SQL Server Express with Advanced Services, MS Office 2013, MS Visio 2013, MS Project 2013, and NetBeans

I also came across this from: http://www.archagon.net/a-few-pointless-thoughts/2013/12/19/late-2013-15-macbook-pro


I am considering the Iris Pro 5200 only option on the base rMBP 15, specd to 2.3Ghz, 16GB memory and 512GB storage ... this is actually costing me the equivalent to 90 USD more than the similarly specd top-end model with the Nvidia 750M!!

So if I decide to go with the top-end rMBP with the Nvidia 750m, would it make any difference to run gfxCardStatus in integrated mode only and run Windows 8.1 inside a Parallels VM, versus running Windows 8.1 in bootcamp with the 750M on always?

If somehow, Apple update bootcamp to include drivers for the Iris Pro that will then allow for dynamic switching between iGPU and dGPU (Optimus) in Windows under bootcamp, I don't mind settling for the top-end rMBP...but I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

I would certainly love to maximize my hours of usage on battery, but I'm really at crossroads with which direction to head, as I'm unsure that the Iris Pro only option will suffice my needs. I would sincerely appreciate any advice in this regard. Thanks!

There won't be much need to use gfxCardStatus to force it to the iGPU. The only time my machine kicks to dGPU is for Photoshop CC and DXO Optics Pro and gaming of course. Parallels stays iGPU.

To be safe go with the iGPU only just in case a VM 8.1 isn't to your satisfaction and you need to bootcamp and get some sort of decent battery life. The 750m will only be an advantage to you if you are doing some heavy heavy photoshop stuff, but from your comments you use it for simple slicing and dicing.

 

[yjchua95]

Wow, I've read through all the posts, and there's some really good discussion on this topic. I've posted a similar question on apple.stackexchange.com, but only received a single response.

I'm interested to know from people with the dGPU and using Windows in bootcamp, what kind of (terrible) battery life are you getting?

As per my post on stackexchange, I work a lot on Magento and Drupal site development, and occasionally develop the odd nopCommerce (.NET based) project under Windows. I also make use of Adobe Photoshop CC for slicing up web designs handed over to me, and fool around in Sketchup every now and then. I don't play games on my laptop. So I believe that my graphics processing needs are very small.

Here is my current situation:

• I'd say my potential Windows to OSX usage would be about 25:75
• I'm currently working on a Sony Vaio running Windows 8.1 and the built-in Intel HD3000 iGPU suits my needs just fine for the applications I run. But I get 2.5 hours on battery.
• Adobe Photoshop CC (I can get a license for either Windows or OSX)
• I occasionally connect my notebook to my Dell U2713HM (2560x1440)
• On Windows I run Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate, SQL Server Express with Advanced Services, MS Office 2013, MS Visio 2013, MS Project 2013, and NetBeans

I also came across this from: http://www.archagon.net/a-few-pointless-thoughts/2013/12/19/late-2013-15-macbook-pro


I am considering the Iris Pro 5200 only option on the base rMBP 15, specd to 2.3Ghz, 16GB memory and 512GB storage ... this is actually costing me the equivalent to 90 USD more than the similarly specd top-end model with the Nvidia 750M!!

So if I decide to go with the top-end rMBP with the Nvidia 750m, would it make any difference to run gfxCardStatus in integrated mode only and run Windows 8.1 inside a Parallels VM, versus running Windows 8.1 in bootcamp with the 750M on always?

If somehow, Apple update bootcamp to include drivers for the Iris Pro that will then allow for dynamic switching between iGPU and dGPU (Optimus) in Windows under bootcamp, I don't mind settling for the top-end rMBP...but I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

I would certainly love to maximize my hours of usage on battery, but I'm really at crossroads with which direction to head, as I'm unsure that the Iris Pro only option will suffice my needs. I would sincerely appreciate any advice in this regard. Thanks!

Apple made the EFI in such a way that if the EFI detected a discrete card, it will force-disable the integrated card in Boot Camp.

So unless someone could mod the EFI and enable the iGPU in Boot Camp, using the Iris Pro in Boot Camp on a dGPU rMBP won't work.

The only solution to using an iGPU with Windows is to use VMware or Parallels.

 

[magz1]

The 750m will only be an advantage to you if you are doing some heavy heavy photoshop stuff, but from your comments you use it for simple slicing and dicing.

Hey Jeff, thanks for your input. I must also advise that I do occasionally do some minor web design stuff in Photoshop, but even that won't require the dGPU, would it? I'm obviously comparing my usage to what I do on my current laptop with its integrated Intel HD3000, and it works smoothly. I don't do any hectic photo rendering or anything like that. I get handed PSD files, hence the only reason I have Photoshop.

Apple made the EFI in such a way that if the EFI detected a discrete card, it will force-disable the integrated card in Boot Camp.

The only solution to using an iGPU with Windows is to use VMware or Parallels.

Hi yjchua, and thanks for our input as well. I didn't know that about the EFI. Seems a bit sneaky on Apple's part, but I'm not gonna troll!

Yeah, I think all things considered, I will go with the iGPU only option. I'll have to wait 4-5 weeks for this apparently as this would be considered a BTO.

 

[yjchua95]

Hi yjchua, and thanks for your input as well. I didn't know that about the EFI. Seems a bit sneaky on Apple's part, but I'm not gonna troll!

Yeah, I think all things considered, I will go with the iGPU only option. I'll have to wait 4-5 weeks for this apparently as this would be considered a BTO.

Oh and by the way, if you go for the iGPU-only option, it's much easier for you to setup an eGPU-over-Thunderbolt solution. That way, you can make use of NVIDIA Optimus over Boot Camp.

Head over to the TechInferno forums to find the guy who hooked up a massive GTX 780 Ti to a 15" rMBP via Thunderbolt 2, in a Sonnet IIID enclosure.

 

[Jeff Flowerday]

Hey Jeff, thanks for your input. I must also advise that I do occasionally do some minor web design stuff in Photoshop, but even that won't require the dGPU, would it? I'm obviously comparing my usage to what I do on my current laptop with its integrated Intel HD3000, and it works smoothly. I don't do any hectic photo rendering or anything like that. I get handed PSD files, hence the only reason I have Photoshop.

The HD5x00 is a huge improvement over the HD3000 so I think that answers your question. dGPU isn't going to be of much help you.

 

[magz1]

The HD5x00 is a huge improvement over the HD3000 so I think that answers your question. dGPU isn't going to be of much help you.

Thanks Jeff. That's reassuring to know

 

[magz1]

Oh and by the way, if you go for the iGPU-only option, it's much easier for you to setup an eGPU-over-Thunderbolt solution. That way, you can make use of NVIDIA Optimus over Boot Camp.

Head over to the TechInferno forums to find the guy who hooked up a massive GTX 780 Ti to a 15" rMBP via Thunderbolt 2, in a Sonnet IIID enclosure.

Hi yjchua. Thanks, I didn't know you could do that actually! I just checked it out, and I'm guessing you meant this TechInferno post? Looks fantastic...and expensive . I also found this TechInferno post that has a similar setup by a guy with just the Iris Pro rMBP. The Sonnet is horribly expensive where I'm from, but I've also heard about similar implementations from ViDock. I guess however, that the internal display will be disabled and that this would work well for a gamer hooked up to an external monitor. Anyway though, it's great to know that this is possible. It gives me some relief that this purchase decision is still future-proof for the most part.

I've already ordered the specd up base rMBP as follows:

• 2.3GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
• 16GB 1600MHz DDR3L SDRAM
• 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
• Intel Iris Pro 5200 (only)
• AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro

I will certainly post back here when I get the machine in about 4-5 weeks time and give some feedback about usage, graphics performance and battery life.

I believe that I can also use VMWare Fusion to boot into the bootcamp partition from inside OS X? So this would give me some great flexibility when I need native performance in Windows.

 

[yjchua95]

Hi yjchua. Thanks, I didn't know you could do that actually! I just checked it out, and I'm guessing you meant this TechInferno post? Looks fantastic...and expensive . I also found this TechInferno post that has a similar setup by a guy with just the Iris Pro rMBP. The Sonnet is horribly expensive where I'm from, but I've also heard about similar implementations from ViDock. I guess however, that the internal display will be disabled and that this would work well for a gamer hooked up to an external monitor. Anyway though, it's great to know that this is possible. It gives me some relief that this purchase decision is still future-proof for the most part.

I've already ordered the specd up base rMBP as follows:

• 2.3GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
• 16GB 1600MHz DDR3L SDRAM
• 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
• Intel Iris Pro 5200 (only)
• AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro

I will certainly post back here when I get the machine in about 4-5 weeks time and give some feedback about usage, graphics performance and battery life.

I believe that I can also use VMWare Fusion to boot into the bootcamp partition from inside OS X? So this would give me some great flexibility when I need native performance in Windows.

That's the exact post.

On the Iris-only model, you have the advantage of using NVIDIA Optimus with an eGPU setup. I've to make do without Optimus on my 2.6/16/1TB/750M + Sonnet IIID + GTX 760 Ti (not 780 Ti) setup.

 

[WhoMD]

Memory Benefit to dGPU?

This thread has been quite useful, but I have one more question.

I don't do any video work, and minimal graphics work. I'm convinced I don't need the graphics processor itself. But I wonder about the dedicated graphics memory. I generally have many applications with multiple windows on the go and max out my memory and tend to get graphics performance issues (mid-2009 MBP with 9400M).

Is having the 750M with 2 GB dedicated memory of value so that graphics needs don't use upto 1.5 GB of my system memory? Or is it likely that my system memory usage will be low enough that it's not going to help much?

 

[Persian-apple]

benchmarks request

can any body help m with gaming bench marks suck as BF4 or assassins creed IV or cod ghosts wolfstein watch dogs etc.
please don't suggest visiting you tube since tmost of videos(at least lots of them) are about the gt650m and some of the others are with the dumbest settings possible for example 2880x1800 resolution and ultra setting!!!
some websites like notebookcheck put the res on 1366x768
are they crazy?really!who plays games on high at 1366x768?
I find 1600x900 or 1080p (not 1920x1200) formal resolutions or at least 1440x900 any help would be helpful
thanks for reading
P.A

 

[yjchua95]

can any body help m with gaming bench marks suck as BF4 or assassins creed IV or cod ghosts wolfstein watch dogs etc.
please don't suggest visiting you tube since tmost of videos(at least lots of them) are about the gt650m and some of the others are with the dumbest settings possible for example 2880x1800 resolution and ultra setting!!!
some websites like notebookcheck put the res on 1366x768
are they crazy?really!who plays games on high at 1366x768?
I find 1600x900 or 1080p (not 1920x1200) formal resolutions or at least 1440x900 any help would be helpful
thanks for reading
P.A

With my 750M, BF4 plays well at 1680x1050, 16xAF, FXAA and mix of high and ultra settings.

At these settings I get around 47-50 fps on average, with the lowest being 35 fps and easily shooting past 60 fps in quite a number of situations.

 

[Persian-apple]

on 1600x900 on a mid-2014 machine(faster cpu by 0.2ghz)
and gt750m 512gb ssd etc...
i get about 45 average and lowest maybe 33-34
an in i put it to high it is simply unable to do it...

----------

the setting i play on
medium(not costume)
and 1600x900
and can't go above that in that setting i get between 33-54 sometime 60

 

[spinlud]

probably not but does anyone know if it is possible to change/upgrade the gpu of a macbook pro retina 15 to another model like nvidia gtx 880m?

 

[cirus]

probably not but does anyone know if it is possible to change/upgrade the gpu of a macbook pro retina 15 to another model like nvidia gtx 880m?

No.

How are you going to run a 100W GPU on a 85W power delivery system. How would you cool it?

 

[yjchua95]

probably not but does anyone know if it is possible to change/upgrade the gpu of a macbook pro retina 15 to another model like nvidia gtx 880m?

It's soldered. You can't change it.

In fact, nothing is upgradable in the retina MBP, because everything is soldered.

The PCIe SSD isn't soldered, but it uses a proprietary (non-M.2) form factor that no one makes.

 

[spinlud]

It's soldered. You can't change it.

In fact, nothing is upgradable in the retina MBP, because everything is soldered.

The PCIe SSD isn't soldered, but it uses a proprietary (non-M.2) form factor that no one makes.

It's really sad that apple doesn't allow user to upgrade anything in their macbooks/imacs...so after some time you have to buy a new product instead of replace just 1 or 2 component.