Unibody Macbook Pro Screen flicker/flash.

[P90Xfit]

So, is this a software or Hardware thing? I fixed it by switching from 9400m GT to 9600m GT then back again.

But I don't know if this is like a temporary fix or something I should call in about? Going to Apple Store is not likely for me since, well there is not one in the South Texas Valley.



Also my light sensor seems to be off, since the keyboard light is always on, unless I turn it off. Same problem?

 

[CBlakeston]

Switching to the 9600 fixed it for me too. Out of curiosity did you also apply the recent short lived nvidia hardware update.

Interesting.. I just went to manually turn the keyboard lights on and they don't seem to work either - Well they do, but the symbol just flashes on screen with zero bars.

 

[Simolinic]

Was the January update firmware or software? Somebody on another forum mentioned that doing an Archive & Install fixed this issue for him.

I've also been experiencing this in very small doses with my 3-week-old MBP. I've got AppleCare and am not afraid to use it, but I haven't had enough occurrences yet to warrant action. Holding out for a (software update) hero, I guess.

 

[isaki87]

Was the January update firmware or software? Somebody on another forum mentioned that doing an Archive & Install fixed this issue for him.

I've also been experiencing this in very small doses with my 3-week-old MBP. I've got AppleCare and am not afraid to use it, but I haven't had enough occurrences yet to warrant action. Holding out for a (software update) hero, I guess.

They wont fix anything unless the issue is replicated with the person who fixes it. Apple refused to fix mine.

 

[gr8tfly]

UB MBP flicker/flash testing results

I have a 17" UB. It started doing it after switching to the 9600, but continued after switching back to the 9400. Per an article at MacFixit, I tried zapping the PRAM and restarting - it seemed to help. It just happened again tonight, and again zap - restart, and I've been running for a while with no problem.

Although it doesn't seem repeatable, I have a feeling it might occur after waking from sleep. I'll have to try some experiments with that, but I'd be interested to see if anyone else has associated the problem with sleep/wake.

Seeing reports of this on a variety of dual GPU machines (mine does the same thing as the YouTube video linked here) makes me think (and hope) it's a software issue. It's difficult for me to swap computers (if I could get it to repeat the problem in front of Apple anyway), plus - this one seems perfect in all the other aspects (mostly, the dead-pixel-gods were kind - perfect display).

Otherwise, this is hands down the best designed notebook Apple has come up with yet. As good as the Al design was (this replaced my 2.33 C2D 17"), this still beats it. When I pick it up, it's like a solid piece of aluminum.

edit: updated data on problem - 3/21/09
Since this post, I've been tracking the problem by logging all the conditions when the flash/flicker occurs. I've monitored both CPU/GPU temps and loads (actually, all temps and loads), whether I'm on the 9400 or 9600, fresh boot, sleep/wake, etc.

I'm at about 99% certainty that this is a s/w problem for the following reasons:

1. I've installed XP in Bootcamp, with the latest (BC 2.1) - which includes the NVIDIA driver set. I have never seen the flash/flicker while booting or running XP. I haven't loaded it much with a game, but just used it, while installing some apps and updates. I ran some h/w accelerated screensavers, but that's about all. At any rate, I spent many hours over the last week in the Windows environment and never saw the problem. For those who haven't run the UB in Bootcamp, XP only runs on the 9600.

2. AFTER rebooting to OS-X (from Windows, still on the 9600), I NEVER see the problem. Doesn't matter on temp or loads. It just runs solid, unless:

3. Put the machine to sleep, then wake. It will flash/flicker within a short while. The previous sequence has been repeatable (done it maybe 10 times, after experiencing the glitch, and it got rid of it). Switching back and forth between the 9400 and 9600 doesn't seem to matter. This problem only seems to happen when running on the 9600.

4. Once the flash/flicker occurs, I have had some luck with resetting the PRAM, then restarting and switching back to the 9600. I probably will do some more testing of this scenario, as I think it was only a couple of times where it appeared to fix it.

5. When I was in the flash/flicker "mode", I tried resetting the SMC. It actually got worse. Now, I saw the flash/flicker during boot. I believe it was #4 (above) that fixed the problem after this happened. Again, I can do some further testing with this scenario.

For those with the UB machines with Bootcamp installed, it would be good feedback to see if you can repeat #1 and #2 and #3. That is: switch to the 9600. If you get the flash/flicker, restart in Windows, then reboot to OS-X - it should be fine. Or, if you are already running the 9600, put the machine to sleep and wake - a couple of times, if necessary, and if you get the flash/flicker, restart in Windows, then back to OS-X, and see if it's solid again.

I don't have a good technical feel for what goes on during the Windows boot and the EFI/SMC, as opposed to OS-X, but my suspicion is there are two problems: 1) SMC firmware and 2) OS-X NVIDIA drivers.

If it were a hardware problem, it would most likely show up in both Windows and OS-X. It still could be, as the drivers settings and how Windows uses the 9600 could be different enough to allow a hardware problem to pass unnoticed while in Windows. Just some speculation, as I don't have enough data to show me 100% it's a s/w problem. I'm hoping there are some readers with UB machines that can try some of the scenarios I've outlined and see it you even have the problem, and, if the "fixes" work for you.

Also, if it were a hardware problem, it seems unlikely it would spread across two different logic boards. Even though the chipset is the same, AFAIK, the physical board is different [between the 15" and 17"). That would leave internal defects in the 9600, but in that case, PC's would be seeing the problem, too, and I haven't seen any reports of that.

I've been given an opportunity to exchange my machine, but I have to decide pretty quickly. I just don't want to "shotgun" the whole machine for something that isn't a h/w problem. I'm just not 100% convinced it is. Thanks to MR members for your help with this.

 

[Maxx Power]

Here is what I read from a while ago from the Inquirer. HP is also having massive problems with their graphics based on Nvidia 9400/9300, 9600/8600 GPUs.


"CONTRARY TO POPULAR belief, the Nvidia 9300/9400 chipset line has been fraught with problems, both logic bugs and heat. Late though it may be, it is still far from ready, and Apple is the latest victim.

According to Apple Insider, the latest Macbooks have two distinct problems. The first is a lockup/black screen whoopsie when using the GPU to do such unusual things as gaming. Those darn 'customer use patterns', how could people think they could get away with gaming on their machines! The other one is distortions while scrolling. One has an easy fix, the other is much more problematic.

The easy one is the distortions while scrolling. This is usually fixable with a software patch, most likely simply adding deeper buffering of frames. I expect this one to be taken care of in short order."

Original Link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/670/1049670/nvidia-heat-causing-macbooks-to-fail

PS. My UMBP has this problem too. Even after the graphics update, it flashes/flickers on scroll. In Bootcamp, it BSOD once citing the graphics as the issue, while watching a video...

 

[jamesryanbell]

I've never had this happen, or even ever seen in happen on anyone's MBP that I know.

Weird.

 

[Andy20412]

I have the exact same problem with my MBP (unibody). Only happens when the 9400 is on, not the 9600. However, I don't have apple care, but bought my MBP in October so I'm assuming I'm still ok to have it repaired? If they have to give me a new laptop, will they transfer everything from my laptop to the new one or do I have to backup everything first?

 

[Tex-Twil]

+1

Since the January Nvidia Graphics update (that was quickly pulled by Apple) I too am noticing a black flash once or twice a day. I mostly use the 9400 and haven't tried switching to the 9600 to see if it goes away but I will over the weekend out of curiosity.

Since it didn't happen before the Nvidia GFX update I'm hoping a future update will fix it?

Same problem here. It happens only 2/3 per day.

 

[Tex-Twil]

Hi,
I also realised that the LED of the magsafe switches off quite often. Does yours also do that ?

 

[dikketienes]

Hey people,

I have something the same with my MBP 17" Glossy.
When it is at low battery (I think) the screen goes flashing like it's switching every second from brightness level. It only happens when I put the brightness level verry low.
If I put my MBP back on the adapter it stops.

I didn't try to switch to 9600M GT to see if there is anny diffrence mabye tomorrow.

My logic board is already changed sow this can't be it.

Anyone an idea what this could be?

Gr

 

[Tex-Twil]

Hey people,

I have something the same with my MBP 17" Glossy.
When it is at low battery (I think) the screen goes flashing like it's switching every second from brightness level. It only happens when I put the brightness level verry low.
If I put my MBP back on the adapter it stops.

I didn't try to switch to 9600M GT to see if there is anny diffrence mabye tomorrow.

My logic board is already changed sow this can't be it.

Anyone an idea what this could be?


Gr

I think that this is another issue called "flickering" when the brightness is set to low See here

 

[jjahshik32]

I had the same flickering and backlight pulsating issue on all 3 of the 15" unibody mbp too. This is why I'm going to wait until the next revision to buy a mbp.

 

[dikketienes]

Thanks Tex-Twil. That's what I was looking for.

Gr

 

[Tex-Twil]

So did somebody exchange his MBP because of this flashing ? Even if it happens to me let's say 2-3/day it is not very nice to see.

Tex

 

[lowpass]

today, i finally brought my 15" MBP to the apple store. they explained it was a logic board problem. they said if the logic board replacement doesn't work, i should reload the os. i'll report back after the replacement. it took two visits to the apple store because i could not replicate the problem (of course) while at the genius bar. so, i had to video my MBP, which was easy considering the frequency of the problem. i showed the genius bar helper the video.

some background, i lived with this problem for several months because its hard to part with one's computer. my flashing increased over time. it usually is only a portion of the screen, about an inch on the top. once the screen flashed 6x in about 40 minutes. happens the most while i'm scrolling down a page. i think low light conditions may exacerbate the problem as well. completely unacceptable performance. i have not noticed the problem when i ran the dedicated graphics card.

i suggest anyone having this problem to RETURN their MBP IMMEDIATELY. (just beware you may need to video the problem.) with the price of computers dropping, it's ridiculous to have a $2k computer that flashes/blinks/blanks/dims on you. it is especially unacceptable if one of apple's selling points is the high resolution screen. apple should be aware of and take care of this problem.

 

[Tex-Twil]

i suggest anyone having this problem to RETURN their MBP IMMEDIATELY. (just beware you may need to video the problem.) with the price of computers dropping, it's ridiculous to have a $2k computer that flashes/blinks/blanks/dims on you. it is especially unacceptable if one of apple's selling points is the high resolution screen. apple should be aware of and take care of this problem.

Yes but mine flashed like 2x / day so it's diffiucult to film this But I agree with you, this should not happen on a 2300€ notebook.

Thanks and good luck

 

[lowpass]

Yes but mine flashed like 2x / day so it's diffiucult to film this But I agree with you, this should not happen on a 2300€ notebook.

Thanks and good luck

my screen flicker was less frequent at first. after some time, i could almost depend on it flickering within the first 15 minutes of use. it made filming much easier.

good luck to you too.

 

[lowpass]

i got my MBP after about 5 days in the shop. been putting it through the usual processes that used to cause the screen flicker in the past. so far so good after 2 evenings of use. looks like the logic board is the culprit.

looks there are some other posts on the forum about logic board replacements.

 

[Tex-Twil]

Hi,
thanks for the feedback.

been putting it through the usual processes that used to cause the screen flicker in the past.

What are those processes ?

Tex

 

[b3studios]

Machine replaced

I have a late 2008 unibody model 15" Macbook Pro. I've been experiencing intermittent screen flickering described in this thread (flickering top half of the screen going black, etc.) that has seemed to have gotten worse lately. Also my battery didn't seem to be holding a charge as long as it should/used to.

There is no Apple store in my home town, so I visited one while traveling and explained my issues. The Genius at the bar replaced the battery and checked it in for a logic board replacement. As the repair would take 5-7 days, and I was leaving town in a few days, they arranged to ship it back to my home address. Great.

The next week Fed Ex drops off my MBP. Upon opening the box, I notice that there is a scratch on the bottom case that wasn't there before and that the battery door is bent slightly on one corner so that it doesn't sit quite flush with the rest of the case anymore. At this point I'm already upset because this is the 3rd machine in three years that I've had come back from an AppleCare repair in *worse* shape than it went it (all three were serviced at the TN facility). On top of it all, the flickering was still occurring, and they replaced the display, not the logic board.
I call up Apple and they say that I have to physically take the machine and packaging into a retail store, or they won't accept that there is any damage. I explain that the closest one to me is 1.5 hours away, so a round trip would be three hours of my time and gas. They explain that there is nothing that they can do, and if they have me ship the machine back it will just be returned to me because of "user damage".

So I spent my Sunday driving to the Apple store. Once getting there the Genius is very nice, but doesn't seem to be able to do much for me. The only part that they have in stock is the battery cover, so the bottom case and logic board would have to be ordered. Neither the Genius or myself was comfortable sending the machine back into Apple for more repairs, so he wanted to do the work in house. I explain my driving situation, and ask if it could be fixed and shipped to me. I'm told that is only possible if it gets sent back to Apple. On top of this, it could take 5-7 days to get the parts in, and 7-10 days to repair once they're in because their repair team is "backed up". At this point my choices were: check the machine in and pick it up in 12-17+ days, or go home, drive back to the store to drop it off when the parts come in, and then drive back and pick it up when it's "fixed".

I opted to just return home with the machine and decide my next option. The Genius ordered the parts anyways, because even if i didn't come back for the repair they would "use them anyways".

Frustrated, yesterday I called AppleCare again and asked to speak directly to customer relations. After a long wait a gentleman named Josh answered and I explained my situation. He put me on hold then came back and offered me a new machine in exchange for my current one. He picked out a new model with the same RAM and HDD and slightly faster processor as my current machine and told me that someone would contact me within 24-48 hours with the exchange details. Last evening Melissa from Apple called and set me up with the exchange paperwork that I had to sign and email back to her.

I wanted to make sure of the machine that I was getting so I looked up the model number and noticed that the video RAM was 256MB while my current machine has 512. Called Melissa back and she apologized and bumped the machine up to the 2.8GHz model with equal RAM, VRAM, and a larger 500GB HDD.

Got my tracking number this morning, get the machine on Thursday.

Moral of the story: Apple quality control has gone downhill (10 repairs on 5 machines in 3.5 years), but their customer relations department can fix your problems even when everyone else says no.

 

[Frosties]

But it still does not repair the flickering screen. You only get a new computer that is more than likely also plagued with flickering as this is thought to be a design problem with the combination of Apple's LED screens and Nvidia's graphics.

 

[playalistic]

I had this exact same problem with my unibody MBP. If I used the 9600 chip it went away.

I took mine back to the Apple store and the genius took a look at it. We couldn't replicate the issue but he still took it in for repair. The logic board was replaced and totally solved the problem. This IS a hardware issue. You need to get it fixed. On the Apple discussions board there are quite a few mentions of this issue and some big related threads. The only cure in all cases has been a replacement logic board.

 

[cababah]

Approx what % of users is this affecting? It seems fairly common yet I have seen no such thing throughout using my 13" MBP.

 

[playalistic]

Approx what % of users is this affecting? It seems fairly common yet I have seen no such thing throughout using my 13" MBP.

I'm pretty certain it only affects the first 15" unibody MBP only. Although this isn't an officially acknowledged fault afaik.