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Unibody Macbook Pro Screen flicker/flash.
- Thread starter jbussiere
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After the graphics update, I only see the problem after about 3 sleep cycles. 99.9% of the time I fix it by simply switching to the 9400, then back to the 9600. The problem goes away and I run for days before sleeping the machine again - without any glitches at all. It'll take several sleep/wake cycles to get it to happen again.
Since the Snow Leopard update, I haven't seen it at all. Between the above experience, all my testing at different temperatures and loads, and the fact I never see it in Boot Camp, I'm virtually 100% convinced it's software. I haven't had enough sleep/wake cycles under Snow Leopard to get me to the 100% mark, but it's looking good.
Since it's so intermittent, and the rest of my machine is perfect ("no dead pixels", or any other defects), I've decided to wait it out - especially since I can fix the problem by the above technique (switching to 9400, then back to 9600). I've been keeping a log for months now and one of these days I'm going to graph the sleep cycles between times where I get the problem. I'm betting it's a very regular pattern of use - again, it points to software. I think...
I wish I had an explanation as to why some have fixed the problem with a logic board swap, but sometimes something marginal in hardware can be uncovered OR fixed by software. So, I take it as anecdotal evidence at this point (and, my fix isn't much more "scientific"). I'm going to just wait it out and see how it behaves in SL. If the problem gets worse, or I'm unable to "reset" "it", I'll think about a call to Apple Care.
Since the Snow Leopard update, I haven't seen it at all. Between the above experience, all my testing at different temperatures and loads, and the fact I never see it in Boot Camp, I'm virtually 100% convinced it's software. I haven't had enough sleep/wake cycles under Snow Leopard to get me to the 100% mark, but it's looking good.
Since it's so intermittent, and the rest of my machine is perfect ("no dead pixels", or any other defects), I've decided to wait it out - especially since I can fix the problem by the above technique (switching to 9400, then back to 9600). I've been keeping a log for months now and one of these days I'm going to graph the sleep cycles between times where I get the problem. I'm betting it's a very regular pattern of use - again, it points to software. I think...
I wish I had an explanation as to why some have fixed the problem with a logic board swap, but sometimes something marginal in hardware can be uncovered OR fixed by software. So, I take it as anecdotal evidence at this point (and, my fix isn't much more "scientific"). I'm going to just wait it out and see how it behaves in SL. If the problem gets worse, or I'm unable to "reset" "it", I'll think about a call to Apple Care.
Funny thing is, I've only just got this problem on my MBP after doing a clean install with Snow Leopard. But I'm wondering if this was a time bomb situation (which wouldn't be true in cases like gr8tfly's).
The inconsistency is killing me. I could go hours and hours without a flicker, but then two or three can occur with a span of 5 minutes.
The inconsistency is killing me. I could go hours and hours without a flicker, but then two or three can occur with a span of 5 minutes.
I just had it happen again when I woke it. So, SL didn't fix it. Still, the odd thing is it never happens in Windows, and the Graphics Update definitely improved it (I used to have to restart or switch to Windows, then back to OS-X). It still could be triggered temperature, i.e. possibly when cold. Then again, if the glitch happens, it will continue, even after it gets up to normal operating temperatures - until I do the switch to 9400 and back. If it was just cold temperature, it should go away after warm-up.
It's frustrating, for sure. You might try the GPU switch (to 9400, then back, assuming you're getting the problem on the 9600). It'd be interesting to see if you get a similar pattern as I do (i.e. only happens on wake, and only after a few sleep/wake cycles - then, fix by doing the swap to 9400 and back to 9600).
Unless I can get it to happen "on command" and not be able to get it to go away, I guess I'm stuck with the oddity. It never happens during use, so it doesn't disable the machine, but obviously I should be able to put the machine to sleep and not worry about causing odd behavior.
I probably can talk Apple into a logic board swap without "proving" the failure (especially, since I'm apparently not alone). But, knowing my luck, the parts that "ain't broke" are at risk (coming back scratched, speaker buzzing 'cause it wasn't reinstalled right, etc., etc.,). A bit paranoid, I suppose, but experience has proven me right more times than not.
Guess I'll keep monitoring it and see if I can ever get a repeatable failure. Otherwise, it's not worth my energy to track it down. Like I said, the machine is perfect in all other ways and this glitch doesn't stop me from using it.
You get it with the 9600? I must have missed that in your previous comment. It only happens to me with the 9400. I could venture a guess that Windows would "fix" the problem only because Windows uses the 9600, right?
You also have a 17" MBP (judging by your signature)? I've got the 15" one with the removable battery.
You also have a 17" MBP (judging by your signature)? I've got the 15" one with the removable battery.
Yep, I have the Early 2009 17" UB. Hard to believe a bad logic board could be the cause of this, given these are different machines (your 15" and my 17"). Also, if you're getting it with the 9400 and I'm getting it with the 9600, that sort of eliminates the GPUs. There's still a mux to switch GPUs, but, AFAIK, those would same used in NVIDIA dual-GPU PC notebooks, too. I don't think the PC's are seeing this glitch, either.
With all that data put together, it sure sounds like an OS-X driver problem. But, "sounds like" still doesn't quite nail it down, unfortunately.
You would think so. But, there are enough posting here and at Apple to say there's some common problem. If it was hardware, it would show up in Windows, too. Then again, I don't spend as much time there. Then again, why are some only reporting 9400 and others reporting 9600? The 9400 is part of the NorthSouthBridge controller, and the 9600 separate. If it were the mux, the glitch would show up on both GPUs on the same machine.
I'll be the first to admit I'm hoping it's software, for the reasons I've mentioned. But, still, looking at all the reports and knowing the overall design (at least at the block-level), it doesn't seem like a hardware problem. There have been reports of resetting the SMC, zapping the PRAM, clean installs, etc. fixing the problem, too.
To play my own devil's advocate: even though PCs use the same chips, they don't use the same board design and there are still some Apple proprietary components on the logic board. That means it could be a hardware problem, isolated to Apple.
I still want to rationalize it as being a software problem, 'cause I just don't want the hassle and worry of doing a repair.
That, and I've spent years working as a s/w engineer fixing hardware problems - in software.Hmm that also make sense
So you would say that there no point running to Apple Care and asking for replacement ?
What about pple who got their MBP replaced and the flash is gone ..
Tex
trying to narrow down the problem...
Seems to be intermittent for both 15" and 17" MBP's, though might be more common with 15" machines. On the other hand, this might only be a result of more 15" owners and/or more 15" owners posting on here.
Seems to happen more often with the 9400 chip active, but sometimes also with the 9600 active.
For most, it can't be reproduced on demand.
Scattered reports of SL fixing the issue for some, SL causing the issue for others. It's more likely that SL neither fixes nor causes the issue.
Some report that the issue is resolved for them after a logic board replacement. Apparently, some logic board replacements don't resolve the issue, however.
No one has reported that the issue is resolved by an LCD screen replacement. (Nice to at least eliminate something.)
Can happen under AC mains or battery.
Doesn't seem to be related to how long the machine is powered on. I've had the issue happen 10 minutes after powering on (from being turned off for hours.) Also had the issue nearly immediately after wake from sleep (lid down.) Also had the issue occur when the notebook has been powered on (and not sleeping) for days.
Doesn't SEEM to be related to CPU usage... I've had the issue occur while only web browsing text pages, as well as during more intensive processes (such as doing mass photo processing in photoship/lightroom.) (This is hard to say for certain - OSX might very well be doing something processor intensive in the background such as reindexing spotlight or something...)
Not related to installed RAM. I've had the issue occur with both apple "factory" 2x1GB of ram as well as with self-installed (and high quality) 2x2GB of ram.
Not related to installed HDD. I've had the issue occur with both the factory installed HDD as well as with 2-3 different aftermarket drives.
Not related to the phase of the moon (determined by seeing the problem occur daily over a 4 week period.)
Question: Does the issue occur on any machine that does NOT have the 9600 chip physically installed? This would include any unibody macbooks or MBP's that ONLY have the 9400 installed.
Seems to be intermittent for both 15" and 17" MBP's, though might be more common with 15" machines. On the other hand, this might only be a result of more 15" owners and/or more 15" owners posting on here.
Seems to happen more often with the 9400 chip active, but sometimes also with the 9600 active.
For most, it can't be reproduced on demand.
Scattered reports of SL fixing the issue for some, SL causing the issue for others. It's more likely that SL neither fixes nor causes the issue.
Some report that the issue is resolved for them after a logic board replacement. Apparently, some logic board replacements don't resolve the issue, however.
No one has reported that the issue is resolved by an LCD screen replacement. (Nice to at least eliminate something.)
Can happen under AC mains or battery.
Doesn't seem to be related to how long the machine is powered on. I've had the issue happen 10 minutes after powering on (from being turned off for hours.) Also had the issue nearly immediately after wake from sleep (lid down.) Also had the issue occur when the notebook has been powered on (and not sleeping) for days.
Doesn't SEEM to be related to CPU usage... I've had the issue occur while only web browsing text pages, as well as during more intensive processes (such as doing mass photo processing in photoship/lightroom.) (This is hard to say for certain - OSX might very well be doing something processor intensive in the background such as reindexing spotlight or something...)
Not related to installed RAM. I've had the issue occur with both apple "factory" 2x1GB of ram as well as with self-installed (and high quality) 2x2GB of ram.
Not related to installed HDD. I've had the issue occur with both the factory installed HDD as well as with 2-3 different aftermarket drives.
Not related to the phase of the moon (determined by seeing the problem occur daily over a 4 week period.)
Question: Does the issue occur on any machine that does NOT have the 9600 chip physically installed? This would include any unibody macbooks or MBP's that ONLY have the 9400 installed.
Hmm that also make sense
So you would say that there no point running to Apple Care and asking for replacement ?
What about pple who got their MBP replaced and the flash is gone ..
Tex
Didn't say there was no point in going. I just said I'm in a wait-and-see mode, since the rewards don't outweigh the risks, for me. Also, there are too many reports of other things also fixing the problem.
I'm not in a mode where I want to go through one or more swaps to try and fix a problem which might or might not be fixed by a logic board swap. Yes, there are some reports by folks who have fixed the problem by doing so, but it sometimes has taken more than one swap.
As an example - my FW800 port is slightly looser than I've had on my other MBP/PBs. But, it's not so loose as to be unusable and I could easily get one that's worse if I were to swap machines. From what I can tell, it's just the way the new machines have the port mounted. I'm sure they're all this way, to some extent. There's also the trackpad. Many reports of some stiffer than others. Mine's on the stiff side. Not worth swapping the machine for, either, since there's no definitive "broken" state.
With all the other reports [on the glitch problem], where not all "fixes" are due to a logic board swap, it just seems to me there still is no definitive "broken" state for this problem. That's just my own judgement, at this point in time. I'm totally open for more data to help define the fault - but, so far, it's like nailing jello to a tree.
Thank you to the thread posters; this discussion helped me as my flickering and tearing problem worsened in the last few months.
For me the problem manifested largely with the 9400M on OS X. I have a Late-2008 15" MBP 2.53 with a 512MB 9600. I spend only a few hours at a time running the 9600 or Windows, and I can't remember whether I saw anything under those conditions. I couldn't find a time, temperature or any other condition to reproduce the problem regularly, but it would happen at least daily, and for 10-15 minutes at a time. I'd see everything from one-line horizontal lines pop white on the screen to one-third of the horizontal screen looking like it was drawn in the wrong place for an instant (more tearing than flickering). Most common was a 10-20 pixel high white horizontal band that would be 1/2 to the full width of the screen. The problem worsened for me with it starting occasionally over the summer, persisting across a clean snow-leopard install, and growing into several times per hour with periods of frequent flickering.
When I found myself trying to videotape the screen for five-minutes intervals and making several such recordings per day, I knew it was time for me to have Apple look at it.
I took it in to the not-so-local Apple Store and told the Genius about the issues that I'd seen. I then started to show him the video I'd taken, with 8 flickers marked in a five minute clip. Lucky for me, the display started one of it's flickering periods during the clip playback. He asked me to rewind the clip, and I told him that that was "live."
He then offered to take the machine to the back and reseat a cable. I agreed and he came back a few minutes later. He told me that he'd watch the screen for a few minutes with me and that if I noticed anything he'd have it repaired. I didn't see anything (I must have blinked), but a minute or two later, he told me he'd seen it flicker. He then offered to either have it fixed in house, or at a repair center. He recommended the repair center because with a problem where it could be in one of a couple of parts, if he ordered the wrong part to replace, he'd have to wait for the next one to arrive, while the repair center would have everything in-stock. I elected for the repair center.
I received my MacBook Pro back today, and here is what they replaced:
It will be at least a week until I declare the problem fixed, but I wanted to let the other forum members know about my experience, and how it was resolved.
Special thanks to the Genius for taking the time to watch the screen with me after reseating the cable. It would have been easier to just send me on my way at that point.
Update: Yes this post is already out of date. I discovered yesterday that the problem was not fixed; it was reduced in severity, but not in frequency. I contacted Apple and they urged me to bring the machine back into the Apple Store, so I will do that today.
Update 2: I met a different Genius, and he again recomended the repair center because they would have more resources to solve a tricky problem where it could be one of several components. I'm not sure he actually saw the problem because it affected only a few pixels at a time, and he was a lot busier than the last Genius I met. However, it's on it's way again. Hopefully they can find the cause this time.
For me the problem manifested largely with the 9400M on OS X. I have a Late-2008 15" MBP 2.53 with a 512MB 9600. I spend only a few hours at a time running the 9600 or Windows, and I can't remember whether I saw anything under those conditions. I couldn't find a time, temperature or any other condition to reproduce the problem regularly, but it would happen at least daily, and for 10-15 minutes at a time. I'd see everything from one-line horizontal lines pop white on the screen to one-third of the horizontal screen looking like it was drawn in the wrong place for an instant (more tearing than flickering). Most common was a 10-20 pixel high white horizontal band that would be 1/2 to the full width of the screen. The problem worsened for me with it starting occasionally over the summer, persisting across a clean snow-leopard install, and growing into several times per hour with periods of frequent flickering.
When I found myself trying to videotape the screen for five-minutes intervals and making several such recordings per day, I knew it was time for me to have Apple look at it.
I took it in to the not-so-local Apple Store and told the Genius about the issues that I'd seen. I then started to show him the video I'd taken, with 8 flickers marked in a five minute clip. Lucky for me, the display started one of it's flickering periods during the clip playback. He asked me to rewind the clip, and I told him that that was "live."
He then offered to take the machine to the back and reseat a cable. I agreed and he came back a few minutes later. He told me that he'd watch the screen for a few minutes with me and that if I noticed anything he'd have it repaired. I didn't see anything (I must have blinked), but a minute or two later, he told me he'd seen it flicker. He then offered to either have it fixed in house, or at a repair center. He recommended the repair center because with a problem where it could be in one of a couple of parts, if he ordered the wrong part to replace, he'd have to wait for the next one to arrive, while the repair center would have everything in-stock. I elected for the repair center.
I received my MacBook Pro back today, and here is what they replaced:
- Display or Display Assembly
- Main Logic Board
- Airport Card
It will be at least a week until I declare the problem fixed, but I wanted to let the other forum members know about my experience, and how it was resolved.
Special thanks to the Genius for taking the time to watch the screen with me after reseating the cable. It would have been easier to just send me on my way at that point.
Update: Yes this post is already out of date. I discovered yesterday that the problem was not fixed; it was reduced in severity, but not in frequency. I contacted Apple and they urged me to bring the machine back into the Apple Store, so I will do that today.
Update 2: I met a different Genius, and he again recomended the repair center because they would have more resources to solve a tricky problem where it could be one of several components. I'm not sure he actually saw the problem because it affected only a few pixels at a time, and he was a lot busier than the last Genius I met. However, it's on it's way again. Hopefully they can find the cause this time.
I can understand your hesitation. It looks to be a tricky problem to have diagnosed and fixed because it tends to be intermittent. For me there were periods of time where it would "pop" a horizontal line every couple of seconds or so for 10-15 minutes at time.
I have the same issue. Only happens under the 9400. I just called Apple and they told me it was NORMAL! WTF. I support 100+ MacBooks 20+ MBP and 300 PPC machines. BULL.
Calling apple again. I have been living with the issue for the past few months. Snow Leopard hasn't fixed it.
Called back and the rep agreed that this was not normal and dispatched a box. Gonna send it out on monday and hopefully have it back wednesday.
I am having the same type of issue. I just ordered a Refurb 17 MBP. It is the newest one out so far. After fighting with Fed Ex because they decided to deliver my computer to a different house in which the people just signed for it and took it, I finally got my computer. As I was going through the beginning startup, the screen flickered a few times. I figured it was not a big deal but then it kept doing it and the screen would even turn off completely for random periods of time. I also notice that the left side of the backlit keyboard is brighter than the other. On my 13 macbook, the backlit keyboard is perfect and I have never had an issue with any flicker ever. I called apple and they are sending out a box so I can send it back. I never even got to use it . A friend suggested I get it on video so I did that also just in case they try to say that there is nothing wrong. So now I have to wait for the box to come in, for them to receive it when I ship it, repair it, and then send it back. Does anyone know how long this process takes?
. A friend suggested I get it on video so I did that also just in case they try to say that there is nothing wrong. So now I have to wait for the box to come in, for them to receive it when I ship it, repair it, and then send it back. Does anyone know how long this process takes?I handed mine over on a Saturday at the store and had it back Thursday morning via FedEx. It probably only takes a day for the box to reach you, though I have not done it that way. You may also have yours back by Friday, because mine will just sit in the store until Monday. In this case, a longer turnaround might be better, assuming the extra time is spent watching your display for a period of time to make sure all is well, instead of them not catching it.
Yes it is. Think of it this way: If you don't take care of it, there's a good chance your screen will stop functioning, and you'll be sending it back to Apple for a week-long period, instead of making an appointment and driving 3 hours.
OR, you could just take it to the Apple certified repair guy up the street.
Problem worse under Snow Leopard and...
I don't think anyone else mentioned if they were using a dual monitor setup. I have my late '08 unibody 15" 2.8GHz attached to a 20" Cinema HD Display with an adaptor. Regardless of whether or not I am hooked up to the CD the MBP flickers 6-10x minute and when it is attached the CD is rock solid. I have not tried the 9400 v 9600 fix yet but I use Parallels for work (full screen on CD) and it doesn't like the 9600 and the CD combo.
I need to take it in for repair but my weird work situation makes it very hard to be functional on any other machine. I have to wait for a vacation before bringing it in.
I don't think anyone else mentioned if they were using a dual monitor setup. I have my late '08 unibody 15" 2.8GHz attached to a 20" Cinema HD Display with an adaptor. Regardless of whether or not I am hooked up to the CD the MBP flickers 6-10x minute and when it is attached the CD is rock solid. I have not tried the 9400 v 9600 fix yet but I use Parallels for work (full screen on CD) and it doesn't like the 9600 and the CD combo.
I need to take it in for repair but my weird work situation makes it very hard to be functional on any other machine. I have to wait for a vacation before bringing it in.
update: After a long fiasco with an apple store, apple's repair facility, etc - The store where I originally brought my late 08 MBP for repair decided to just replace the notebook (encouraged by Apple's Customer Relations department.) After using the new MBP (mid 09, 2.66) for about a week, I haven't noticed the problem. This is with snow leopard, all updates, mostly using the 9400 chip, and occasionally using the 9600 chip (same pattern of usage as my previous MBP.)
Of course, knowing Murphy, as soon as I click "submit reply" on this website, my screen will probably start flickering madly.
Of course, knowing Murphy, as soon as I click "submit reply" on this website, my screen will probably start flickering madly.
Same problem only with the NVIDEA 9400 (battery save mode)
I have a macbook pro 5,1 Unibody 2.4ghz, 4GB and they flickering is there for about 8 months now, I needed this machine so often that I was never able to bring it back. In the beginning I mostly only worked with the 9600 because of FCP supposedly running better. But now I feel like i cannot send the mac back anymore. Anyways, I know this is a problem with the 9400 Nvidea cards
like stated here: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1049670/nvidia-heat-causing-macbooks-to-fail
And I too am affraid that a repair gives my machine back weaker then now, but also that the screen one day just might stay black.
I heard that it was a hear issue, but sometimes, when I unplug the power, it will not flash for a very long time.
Eventually I realized there is no consistency at all. It seems to be consistent, but it just flashes once in a while. No logic. So maybe it is the logic board...
I have a macbook pro 5,1 Unibody 2.4ghz, 4GB and they flickering is there for about 8 months now, I needed this machine so often that I was never able to bring it back. In the beginning I mostly only worked with the 9600 because of FCP supposedly running better. But now I feel like i cannot send the mac back anymore. Anyways, I know this is a problem with the 9400 Nvidea cards
like stated here: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1049670/nvidia-heat-causing-macbooks-to-fail
And I too am affraid that a repair gives my machine back weaker then now, but also that the screen one day just might stay black.
I heard that it was a hear issue, but sometimes, when I unplug the power, it will not flash for a very long time.
Eventually I realized there is no consistency at all. It seems to be consistent, but it just flashes once in a while. No logic. So maybe it is the logic board...