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Just sharing my experience. I just got home from a trip where our traveling group took about 3000 photos. I've been looking through them. We all have the 17 Pro Max. This is the first time with a new iPhone that I ever questioned picture quality.

What I've noticed is that our photos don't always look focused. Or the focus is on a table in the foreground and everything else is blurry. I have a few where the lighting is good and I'm taking a picture of a still object yet the picture is blurry, not kind of blurry. Some selfies have the person taking the picture clear and the rest of us blurry.
 
Just sharing my experience. I just got home from a trip where our traveling group took about 3000 photos. I've been looking through them. We all have the 17 Pro Max. This is the first time with a new iPhone that I ever questioned picture quality.

What I've noticed is that our photos don't always look focused. Or the focus is on a table in the foreground and everything else is blurry. I have a few where the lighting is good and I'm taking a picture of a still object yet the picture is blurry, not kind of blurry. Some selfies have the person taking the picture clear and the rest of us blurry.

Yep that's what I've been seeing as well. I'm not 100% sure if it's a "bug" as much as it is just the different focal length, which - in my layman mind - is a physics limitation and might not be fixable.

The worst offender in my case (which I think I might've commented in this thread about) was trying to take a photo of a group of 10 people at a table in a decently lit restaurant... I was on one end of the table standing up, and nothing I could do would get anybody but the first few on each side in focus. My wife hopped in with her standard 16 to take a photo that got it right. It's frustrating b/c the phone can take some absolutely great photos in other scenarios. But that was a pretty nice memory that it was unable to catch. 🤷‍♂️

I'm unsure if this would be an issue on the standard 17 or Air either.
 
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Yep that's what I've been seeing as well. I'm not 100% sure if it's a "bug" as much as it is just the different focal length, which - in my layman mind - is a physics limitation and might not be fixable.
Interesting point. Let's see, what others say...
 
The main issue I've seen is poor focus in dark environments. Last night outside after dusk the camera just would not focus on my subject. During the day the images look fantastic and I appreciate the lighter touch on sharpening.
I will say that in my experience thus far, there is a little bit of play in focusing when in a low light situation, ultimately just due to the tiny sensor. However, once I do have a subject in focus, and have snapped a photo, the results are pretty impressive.

 
Yep that's what I've been seeing as well. I'm not 100% sure if it's a "bug" as much as it is just the different focal length, which - in my layman mind - is a physics limitation and might not be fixable.

The worst offender in my case (which I think I might've commented in this thread about) was trying to take a photo of a group of 10 people at a table in a decently lit restaurant... I was on one end of the table standing up, and nothing I could do would get anybody but the first few on each side in focus. My wife hopped in with her standard 16 to take a photo that got it right. It's frustrating b/c the phone can take some absolutely great photos in other scenarios. But that was a pretty nice memory that it was unable to catch. 🤷‍♂️

I'm unsure if this would be an issue on the standard 17 or Air either.
I think we need to relink to this post over the next 11 months or so whenever "the variable aperture in iPhone 18 Pros" rumor comes up and people ask why would anyone need it.
 
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I think we need to relink to this post over the next 11 months or so whenever "the variable aperture in iPhone 18 Pros" rumor comes up and people ask why would anyone need it.

It is interesting, if that's the reason they're going that direction, I wonder if they're saying, "Ok we've about perfected the lens size, sensor size, etc. - within the physics limitations... but we know that creates some other issues, so here's how we might fix that - variable aperture!" Which I guess is how technology goes in general...
 
A variable aperture would be cool to see, and great utility if implemented well. That could help tremendously with the kind of “pulsing” effect that you will sometimes see when filming in really bright situations.
 
I haven’t really had any issues with my 17 Pro Max, and that’s after me throwing over a dozen shots using the various crops and three optical zooms, and LOG 2 footage at it. The only real complaint that I have is the inability to shoot at 48 mp all the time (at least for the optical lenses), and instead am at the mercy of the software deciding what the final mp output will be. Despite this, a 12 mp shot on my 17 Pro Max is significantly sharper than a 12 mp shot on my 13 Pro Max, due to the sensors on the former still being considerably larger.

Outside of the wide angle crops being fairly useless for my personal workflow, aside from the 2x zoom, and wanting more control over the megapixel output, I’m impressed so far. The 17 Pro Max feels like it’ll actually be a very reliable B-camera for me in the field alongside my DSLR.


Here are some test results, some of which aren’t 48 mp, but I’m still ultimately satisfied. View attachment 2572779View attachment 2572778View attachment 2572780View attachment 2572781
my experience as well, came from 13PM to now 17PM. The pictures are sharp, I just really don't like how the stock camera app decides for you what lens and resolution to use ...
I've tried Halide (didn't 'like that the camera chooser is a 5x toggle and their process zero only supports 12MP), Project Indigo (does use 12MP only), am now trying out ProCamera (I cannot find a resolution setting at all, all my sample pics are 12 MP) and been looking at ProCam but they don't seem to have a free trial ...

At least with the stock camera app I have figured out when I can use 48MP, not that I want to all the time but I do not care for the digital crop of 2x/8x, if I want/need to crop, I'll do that myself
 
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I am impressed with the camera!

IMG_0251.jpeg
 
my experience as well, came from 13PM to now 17PM. The pictures are sharp, I just really don't like how the stock camera app decides for you what lens and resolution to use ...
I've tried Halide (didn't 'like that the camera chooser is a 5x toggle and their process zero only supports 12MP), Project Indigo (does use 12MP only), am now trying out ProCamera (I cannot find a resolution setting at all, all my sample pics are 12 MP) and been looking at ProCam but they don't seem to have a free trial ...

At least with the stock camera app I have figured out when I can use 48MP, not that I want to all the time but I do not care for the digital crop of 2x/8x, if I want/need to crop, I'll do that myself
I’m pretty sure the 12MP limitation is imposed by Apple. If I had guess, it’s because they need the pixels to be larger (and therefore gather more light) because the images look awful without the noise processing that is done by proraw. I honestly think the 48MP mode is a bit of a gimmick. Sure, the resolution is higher, but that doesn’t matter much when the quality of each pixel is bad.
 
I’m pretty sure the 12MP limitation is imposed by Apple. If I had guess, it’s because they need the pixels to be larger (and therefore gather more light) because the images look awful without the noise processing that is done by proraw. I honestly think the 48MP mode is a bit of a gimmick. Sure, the resolution is higher, but that doesn’t matter much when the quality of each pixel is bad.
No question that there is some limitation set by Apple, I have observed that when in low(er) light condition it will default to 12MP, to allow for more light. And I am fine with that.
What I do not care about is the digital "zoom/crop", I really only want to use the 3 lenses and it seems that is being manipulated too.
I've been able to take multiple photos at 48MP and they all look fine, I've chosen heic for now as I don't really see the benefit of prorate, yet.
What I am really trying to accomplish is the raw capabilities of the 17PM camera to see how it compares to my DSLR. I have a full frame sensor and shoot in RAW so am familiar with post processing and everything.
Trying to push the boundaries in what can and cannot/should not be done.
 
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No question that there is some limitation set by Apple, I have observed that when in low(er) light condition it will default to 12MP, to allow for more light. And I am fine with that.
What I do not care about is the digital "zoom/crop", I really only want to use the 3 lenses and it seems that is being manipulated too.
I've been able to take multiple photos at 48MP and they all look fine, I've chosen heic for now as I don't really see the benefit of prorate, yet.
What I am really trying to accomplish is the raw capabilities of the 17PM camera to see how it compares to my DSLR. I have a full frame sensor and shoot in RAW so am familiar with post processing and everything.
Trying to push the boundaries in what can and cannot/should not be done.
I actually made a video about this. If you skip over the first section that explains equivalency, you’ll be able to see some test shots that compare the 17 Pro to a full frame Sony A7III at roughly equivalent settings and then a point ans shoot test in which I left the Sony and 17 Pro in auto mode.


I also am annoyed by the digital crop. I’ve noticed that, in low light situations, the main sensor will be cropped to achieve the 100mm zoom instead of using the 100mm lens. I assume this is because the main sensor is larger than the telephoto sensor.
 
Hey there,

I received a new unit, and it is much better overall.

It features the Samsung GN9 display and louder speakers with no distortion, which is a significant improvement as my previous two 17 PMs had that issue.

In terms of camera quality, I'm seeing better results as well. The photos are uniform across all four corners, though my 16 PM still has about 5% more definition (Main Wide Camera ProRaw48).

Out of curiosity, my Ultra Wide camera seems better than my 16 PM's as well. Perhaps the processing pipeline has changed slightly.

The Telephoto camera is superb.

I will conduct further tests and investigations.
 
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I actually made a video about this. If you skip over the first section that explains equivalency, you’ll be able to see some test shots that compare the 17 Pro to a full frame Sony A7III at roughly equivalent settings and then a point ans shoot test in which I left the Sony and 17 Pro in auto mode.


I also am annoyed by the digital crop. I’ve noticed that, in low light situations, the main sensor will be cropped to achieve the 100mm zoom instead of using the 100mm lens. I assume this is because the main sensor is larger than the telephoto sensor.
I'll have to watch this video later.. i've had the iPhone for a long time. And the only way to keep the cameras from switching due to light levels or being too close etc is to use a third party app where you can hard select the lenses or cameras and they won't change on you. Apps like Moment, procamera, or Halide. Also, you're not able to control the ISO or shutter speed on the camera, but you can on the third party apps. However, if you do change the ISO or shutter speed on third party apps while in 48 megapixel mode, that app will reduce the quality down to 12 megapixels. This is Because apple won't let you proceed at 48 megapixels with third party apps. I still have the 16 Pro Max, but I hardly ever use it because I have mainly switched over to the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra so that I can have full control over the camera, which better suits my needs..
 
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I'll have to watch this video later.. i've had the iPhone for a long time. And the only way to keep the cameras from switching due to light levels or being too close etc is to use a third party app where you can hard select the lenses or cameras and they won't change on you. Apps like Moment, procamera, or Halide. Also, you're not able to control the ISO or shutter speed on the camera, but you can on the third party apps. However, if you do change the ISO or shutter speed on third party apps while in 48 megapixel mode, that app will reduce the quality down to 12 megapixels. This is Because apple won't let you proceed at 48 megapixels with third party apps. I still have the 16 Pro Max, but I hardly ever use it because I have mainly switched over to the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra so that I can have full control over the camera, which better suits my needs..
Yep, not being able to change settings without a drop in resolution is so frustrating. I didn’t know about that before I got my 17 pro and was disappointed because I like to shoot pictures of dogs running so need high shutter speeds.

I hope you like the video. Skip to the back half to see all the comparison shots. Apologies the audio is a bit lacklustre. It’s my first video!
 
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Just sharing my experience. I just got home from a trip where our traveling group took about 3000 photos. I've been looking through them. We all have the 17 Pro Max. This is the first time with a new iPhone that I ever questioned picture quality.

What I've noticed is that our photos don't always look focused. Or the focus is on a table in the foreground and everything else is blurry. I have a few where the lighting is good and I'm taking a picture of a still object yet the picture is blurry, not kind of blurry. Some selfies have the person taking the picture clear and the rest of us blurry.
Yeah a friend of mine and his family all with 17 Pro Maxes (and one Pro) went to Italy last month. He's a great photographer, has a couple of Sony cameras. The pictures taken with the 17 Pro Maxes didn't look good to me. He isn't too happy with the quality of the pictures either. Another reason why I'm waiting another year and opted for a new battery for my 13 Pro Max.
 
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Yeah a friend of mine and his family all with 17 Pro Maxes (and one Pro) went to Italy last month. He's a great photographer, has a couple of Sony cameras. The pictures taken with the 17 Pro Maxes didn't look good to me. He isn't too happy with the quality of the pictures either. Another reason why I'm waiting another year and opted for a new battery for my 13 Pro Max.
Did he mention any specifics? I’ve been reviewing my recent photos. The vast majority are excellent. It’s that the focus is off on a handful where it picks one thing or person to focus on and the rest get blurred. These are not portrait shots either.
 
Seems like a fair amount of user error in this video. First thing he did was try to use the telephoto to take a picture of a close up object. It's well known that when you try to take a picture of an object inside the minimum focal distance of your chosen lens, the iPhone will drop back to the next widest lens and then crop and upscale the image to match the equivalent field of view. So, when he took a picture of his shoes (which was definitely too close for the 4x to focus on), the phone dropped back to the 1x main camera and gave him an upscaled image. That image was 12 MP by necessity and of course it didn't look great. BTW, had he tried to do the same thing with the 5x telephoto on the 15 Pro Max, he would have had the exact same thing happen.

My experience with the telephoto on the 17 Pro is that is a step up from the 5x on the 16 Pro, but not a dramatic step up. The improvements are much more subtle than what you would expect from Apple's marketing (and I suspect the marketing is driving some of the disappointment we are seeing). My observations (in no particular order):
  • The 4x lens on the 17 Pro zoomed in to 5x captures more detail than the optical 5x lens on the 16 Pro. I attribute this to the higher res sensor on the 17 capturing more information. The 17 Pro also still produces a 24 MP image at 5x, which makes me think it's doing the same processing trickery that allows the 1x lens to still get 24 MP images at 28mm and 35mm equivalents. That's a nice bonus since the 16 Pro still captures a 12 MP image at 5x. Here's a comparison shot of the 17 Pro 4x zoomed to 120mm equivalent (the same field of view on the 16 Pro 5x). At first glance they look similar. But then as you zoom in, you see the 17 Pro was able to pick up things like the texture of the paper on the Da Vinci biography. It was able to resolve that the word Atomic is made of small dots in the next book to the right. And smaller letters and fine details are just crisper throughout the image. Much of that is probably due to the extra resolution of the 17 Pro sensor. There is also just less noise in the 17 Pro image. I couldn't post the full 17 Pro image here because it's 24 MP but here's the comparison of a sampled area of the image.
View attachment 2558884 View attachment 2558886
  • If you zoom both phones in to 8x in camera, the 17 Pro really pulls away. Both phones produce a 12 MP image at this point. But the 17 Pro again has more detail and less noise, likely due to the extra resolution and the physically larger sensor. The 16 Pro has to crop the smaller 12 MP sensor and then upscale and you can really see how much it has to rely on over-sharpening at this point. The 17 Pro goes a little too far in noise reduction, leading to a slightly soft image. But I still greatly prefer it to the 16 Pro image. The 17 Pro is simply working with more information. Here's a comparison of the 8x shot from both cameras focusing on the same set of books.
View attachment 2558885 View attachment 2558887
  • The 4x can give some decent optical bokeh if you focus on a subject right near the minimum focus distance of the lens. It's not DSLR quality by any means. But you can see some benefit from the larger sensor.
View attachment 2558892
  • I am finding the 4x on the 17 Pro to be soft some of the time. But it's not consistently so. So, I am not sure if it is a case of the lens not having enough resolving power for the higher res sensor or if it is an issue with the sensor stabilization or the image processing pipeline that could be corrected in software later on.
  • In general, I'm finding the telephoto on the 17 Pro to be an upgrade. It captures more detail and the 4x/8x option is more versatile than the 5x on the 16 Pro. I think people heard 48 MP in Apple's marketing and thought they were getting a DSLR. It's still a phone camera. But it can produce very nice images if you work with it.
I don't have a 14 Pro to compare the 1x cameras. In general, I have found my 1x shots to be about the same as the 16 Pro, which is to say very good. The 1x camera continues to be noticeably superior to the other cameras, though the gap has shrunk a little this year.
Excellent points and considerations!
 
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