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I think it's very very funny.

They should re-name themselves Uni-squirm-al, as they try to wriggle like the worms they are, out of the apple that is so much larger than they realised it would ever become. If they didn't want to get stuck in the apple, they shouldn't have made it so difficult to get out. That sweet juicy DRM smelled and tasted so good, but they didn't heed the warnings that it would go sour for them, and now they are trying to cook the apple so they have a bigger piece of the pie.
 
I for one stopped buying any Universal music or movies or even viewing them in the cinema when they made the last announcement regarding iTunes. I have no issues with them doing what they are doing its the manner in which they have done it - and you just get a real sense that univeral is run by tools!

So congratulations Universal you have just increased your piracy levels that were probably at an all time low thanks to iTunes as i won't be spending my money on your wares!
 
Universal $£$^%$&@$

It is clear that Universal does not care about consumers.

They are a greedy, highly corrupted record company, that unfortunately has a lot of leverage, and is abusing this. Apple's iTunes set up is not bad at all, it offers a fair price, and gives a good share to the record company, but record companies are among the most greedy in the world, and always will try and squeeze everything out of every business deal, as they are equally squeezing the artists they sign on, make no mistake, in music, the record company always has the best deal.
Of course, we as consumers would always like lower prices etc, but to be fair, the 99 cent per track is very reasonable, and Apple would even use this price point for DRM free, high quality music, but the record companies are the ones forcing them to charge more.
:apple:
 
Universal, the world’s biggest music conglomerate, is set to announce that it will offer albums and songs without the software, known as digital rights management, through existing digital music retail services like RealNetworks and Wal-Mart, nascent services from Amazon.com and Google, and some artists’ web Wites, these people said.

Someone's going to have to break this to Universal, but they've been selling digital music without DRM for decades now. That's what a CD is. Not only is it digital music without DRM, but it's in a lossless format and so it can be converted to other formats without consumers going to Universal again for the latest up-to-date digital lossy format (like when we went from MP3 to AAC).
 
I for one stopped buying any Universal music or movies or even viewing them in the cinema when they made the last announcement regarding iTunes.

As I have now mentioned twice before in this thread, the Universal Music Group and NBC Universal are different companies.
 
Sounds dumb...why would i want to go to another music store open an account...download the song/album....and then load it into iTunes...thats just extra steps and more of a hastle for me...thats like driving 100 miles away to get cheaper gas...not worth it...boo universal!
That's not even close to a proper analogy. I love how you people argue all day over where you should be buying your low quality music from. Either way you are getting ripped off.
 
I'm really begging to dislike Universal as a whole.
I mean even the movie guys are being *******s by only putting their films on HD DVD.

Some of my favorite movies are Universal!
 
I'm not going to read everyone's bitching and moaning.... but this is finally someone taking a proactive step for the good of the industry and against itunes. I am an apple user, but when having only one main digital store for all music is a bad thing. Competition is necessary and this should help those other services grow to have a positive digital economy.
 
Typical... Universal seems to be totally Microsoft aligned. eg: Universal backs HD-DVD, Apple backs Blu-ray. :(

While I am a Bluray backer (already have a PS3), you are confused. Universal Music and Universal Studios are totally different. Universal Music is French owned - by Vivendi. Universal Studios is owned by GE (NBC). GE is the HD-DVD backer. I have seen Universal Music as one of the backers of Bluray (I saw their logo in the bluray website).

So, keep them separate!!

Now, if I can convince GE to release movies on BD - that would be awesome.
 
Then why the same logos?

They maybe two separate entity's but i bet they are owned by one and the same.

Wrong!!! They used to be the same in the past. But GE bought Universal Studios from Seagram and merged it with their NBC unit. Vivendi bought Universal Music. So, Vivendi (French) owns Universal Music. GE (USA) owns Universal Studios. Both entities are pissing me off because I back Bluray (I own the PS3 and love it) and I love Apple. The irony here is I work for GE!
 
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This is one of the BIG reasons I dont go anywhere else besides iTunes.

Go to emusic.com

You have to pay a subscription and you have no idea WHO they have without signing up.

Stupid.Just plain stupid.
Of course you can browse their entire catalogue without needing to pay the subscription fee:
http://www.emusic.com/browse/all.html

Don't forget, too, that emusic's subscription model is vastly different from the models advocated by most other online subscription services.

With most subscription models, all the songs you've already acquired will self-destruct as soon as you allow the subscription to lapse.

With emusic, once you download the track, it's yours forever. The subscription just makes it possible for you to continue acquiring additional tracks in the future.
 
Universal Music Group is not NBC or NBC Universal. It is not part of, or owned by, NBC Universal or GE. It is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Vivendi SA.

Vivendi SA owns 20% of NBC Universal and GE owns the other 80%. NBC Universal owns and operates the theme parks, television, and film businesses under the Universal brand.

Actually, GE owns Kitchen-All of Colorado, which in turn owns JMI of Stanford, which is a majority shareholder in Pokerfastlane.com, which recently acquired the Sheinhardt Wig Company, which owns NBC outright. NBC owns Winnipeg Iron Works, which owns the Ahp Chanagi Party Meats Corporation of Pyongyang, North Korea (which manufactures the Whoopi Goldberg Meat Machine).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlOHNV6ALE
 
I think you should all care more about the QUALITY of the sound. A much as I love my iPod and taking everyhting with me, we should demand better quality than MP3s. Good article from the San Francisco Chronicle: (yeah I know you already know all this):


MP3 music - it's better than it sounds

Joel Selvin, Chronicle Senior Pop Music Critic
Wednesday, August 8, 2007

Whether you know it or not, that compact disc you just copied to your MP3 player is only partially there.

With the CD on its way out and computer files taking over as the primary means of hearing recorded music, the artificial audio of MP3s is quickly becoming the primary way people listen to music. Apple already has sold 100 million iPods, and more than a billion MP3 files are traded every month through the Internet.

[ MP3: Just because it's digital, doesn't mean it sounds good.]

But the music contained in these computer files represents less than 10 percent of the original music on the CDs. In its journey from CD to MP3 player, the music has been compressed by eliminating data that computer analysis deems redundant, squeezed down until it fits through the Internet pipeline.

When even the full files on the CDs contain less than half the information stored to studio hard drives during recording, these compressed MP3s represent a minuscule fraction of the actual recording. For purists, it's the dark ages of recorded sound.

"You can get used to awful," says record producer Phil Ramone. "You can appreciate nothing. We've done it with fast food."

Ramone, who has recorded everyone from Frank Sinatra to the Rolling Stones, was a musical prodigy who graduated from Juilliard at 16. He won the first of his nine Grammys in 1965 for the classic album "Getz/Gilberto." He is not alone in the upper ranks of his profession in decrying the state of audio, even though millions of dollars have been spent building high-tech digital recording studios.

"We're pretty happy with what we send out," says engineer Al Schmitt, winner of 15 Grammys for records by artists from Henry Mancini to Diana Krall. "What happens after that, we have no control over that anymore."

These studio professionals bring their experience and expensive, modern technology to bear on their work; they're scrupulous and fastidious. Then they hear their work played back on an iPod through a pair of plastic earbuds. Ask Ramone how it feels to hear his work on MP3s, and he doesn't mince words.

"It's painful," he says.

MP3s have won the war of the formats because of technology, not because of their audio quality. "It's like hearing through a screen door," says neuroscientist Daniel Levitin of McGill University, author of "This Is Your Brain on Music." "There are lines between me and what I want to see."

But what is the price of inferior audio quality? Can poor audio touch the heart as deeply as better sound? John Meyer, who designs and builds some of the world's best speakers at his Meyer Sound Labs in Berkeley, doesn't think so.

"It turns you into an observer," Meyer says. "It forces the brain to work harder to solve it all the time. Any compression system is based on the idea you can throw data away, and that's proved tricky because we don't know how the brain works."

It could be that MP3s actually reach the receptors in our brains in entirely different ways than analog phonograph records. The difference could be as fundamental as which brain hemisphere the music engages.

"Poorer-fidelity music stimulates the brain in different ways," says Dr. Robert Sweetow, head of UCSF audiology department. "With different neurons, perhaps lesser neurons, stimulated, there are fewer cortical neurons connected back to the limbic system, where the emotions are stored."

But Sweetow also notes that music with lyrics may act entirely differently on a cerebral level than instrumental music. "The words trigger the emotion," he says. "But those words aren't necessarily affected by fidelity."

Certainly '50s and '60s teens got the message of the old rock 'n' roll records through cheap plastic transistor radios. Levitin remembers hearing Sly and the Family Stone's "Hot Fun in the Summertime" on just such a portable radio, an ancient ancestor of the iPod.

"It was crap, but it sounded great," he says. "All the essential stuff comes through that inch-and-a-half speaker."

Levitin also says that Enrico Caruso and Billie Holiday can probably move him more than Michael Bolton or Mariah Carey under any fidelity.

"If the power of the narrative of the movie isn't there," he says metaphorically, "there's only so far cinematography can take you."

Most of today's pop records are already compressed before they leave the studio in the first place, so the process may matter less to artists like Maroon 5 or Justin Timberlake. Other kinds of music, in which subtlety, detail and shaded tonalities are important, may suffer more harm at the hands of the algorithms.

"When you listen to a world-class symphony or a good jazz record," says Schmitt, "and you hear all the nuance in the voices, the fingers touching the string on the bass, the key striking the string on the piano, that's just a wonderful sensation."

How much the audio quality is affected by the MP3 process depends on the compression strategy, the encoder used, the playback equipment, computer speed and many other steps along the way. Experts agree, however, that the audio quality of most MP3s is somewhere around FM radio. The best digital audio, even with increased sampling rates and higher bit rates, still falls short of the natural quality of now-obsolete analog tape recording.

EMI Records announced earlier this year the introduction of higher-priced downloads at a slightly higher bit rate, although the difference will be difficult to detect. "It's probably indistinguishable to even a great set of ears," says Levitin.

How good MP3s sound obviously also depends greatly on the playback system. But most MP3s are heard through cheap computer speakers, plastic iPod docking stations or, worse yet, those audio abominations called earbuds.

The ease of distribution means that MP3s are turning up everywhere, even places where they probably shouldn't. Schmitt, who has won the award more times than anyone else, is incredulous that the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences posts MP3s of nominees for the best engineering Grammy. "As if you could tell anything from that," he sneers.

For digital audio to substantially improve, several major technological hurdles will have to be cleared. The files will have to be stored at higher sampling rates and higher bit rates. Computing power will have to grow. New playback machines will have to be introduced ( Ramone thinks high-definition television is the model for something that could be "HD audio"). If the Internet is going to be the main delivery system for music in the future, as appears to be the case, Internet bandwidth will also be a factor.

"The Internet is in charge now," says Ramone, "and it has all kinds of wobbles. You have wires hanging out of windows and things like that. That's just the way things have to be because the Internet is in transition."

Meanwhile, most music listeners don't know what they're missing. They listen to MP3s on shiny chrome machines and plastic earpieces, and what they hear is what they get. But what's being lost is not replaced by the convenience.

In effect, sound reproduction is caught in a technological wrinkle that may take years to straighten out. "This is a transition phase," says McGill's Levitin. "It's having an effect on the culture, no question, but it's temporary. ... (But) it may be around for a while."
 
The real issue is that the general public either has pathetic sound systems and/or just does not care. It's the same reason why DVD-Audio and SuperAudio CD never took off. I'm stuck listening to only a handful I've managed to find, because the public doesn't make it worth the studios time. Big business is capitalizing on this by offering substandard quality digital music. All iTunes tracks should be encoded in Apple Lossless at the very least.
 
Monopsony???

It's hardly emotionally driven. It is a mid-term strategy to ensure the online music distribution business does not become an Apple-controlled monopsony.

A monopsony? Considering Apple doesn't purchase Universal's music, rather takes a fee for selling it, I think it would be rather hard to have a monopsony. Additionally, I think it would be rather hard to have a monopsony on an intangible product. A monopsony on something like timber or copper is one thing, but digital information is something entirely different.

Apple is not a monopoly in digital music, nor could it ever become one, unless it bought all or a large majority of the music labels. It's hard to have a monopoly when you don't own the product. Also, it will never have a monopoly while there are other mediums through which to acquire music, i.e. CDs.

What seems to be at issue here is Universals stance that Apple should offer music at a price dictated by Universal. Apple has so far resisted this, possibly through loyalty to it's customers or for some other reason. What ever the reason, we have read time and time again about Universal pressuring Apple to offer music at a premium. To now assume that it has to do with a "fair market" is ludicrous.
 
I gotta say that I really like itunes with the pricing and simplicity. I would pay more for something like itunes plus, but I also like the opportunity to buy the current files which are smaller (limited disc space). I guess I'll just buy used CDs of Universal Artists on ebay and such and encode it however I want. See if Universal gets any more money from me. It's a shame, because sometimes there may only be a song instead of a whole album that I want. I think most people will illegally download one song if there isn't a better legal option such as itunes. If the price is too expensive then one may as well buy the cd used.

People will depart with $1.00 much easier and I think that is where itunes succeeds. It gets you with the impulse buy for $1. Without that, there probably would have been less purchases on my part.
 
The stance taken by Universal depicts perfectly the problem facing the music industry -- arrogance and an inability to see the reality of the situation.

They are concerned with Apple gaining too much power with iTunes? Guess what, if not for iTunes, the market for legal music downloads would be virtually non-existent! They are shooting themselves in the foot by playing hardball with Apple on this.

Do they not recognize the severity of the problem? I am in my mid-twenties, and am basically the only one in my circle who pays for music. Everyone else I know -- including my peers in the workplace -- is downloading illegally.

iTunes appeals to me, and millions of others, because it is simple to use and looks nice. Everything else out there, to be frank, sucks!

Let them try their new strategy, whatever it is. If they continue to isolate themselves from Apple, they will regret it. If they wanted to be this aggressive, they should have taken action back in 1999. Idiots.

Couldn't have said it better!

The indy bands are where good music really is! Boycott the RIAA shlubs and support true artists! There are alot of them on iTunes waiting for your discovery (and no I am not one of them).:D
 
Tracking piracy?

If anything, this move is ENCOURAGING piracy.

I think Universal's "tracking piracy" comment is a ruse. How do they track or measure the amount of piracy? Where do they collect and keep the data on piracy? Is there a master data-base that records whenever any person gets a song without paying? Maybe their plan is to somehow tag the files with the purchasers info, in a way that would allow them to be traced later on. If the morons at Universal would download a brain, they might stumble onto a plan that actually works without offending more potential customers. Personally, DRM or no DRM, for now I'll stick with iTunes.
 
I think Universal's "tracking piracy" comment is a ruse. How do they track or measure the amount of piracy? Where do they collect and keep the data on piracy? Is there a master data-base that records whenever any person gets a song without paying? Maybe their plan is to somehow tag the files with the purchasers info, in a way that would allow them to be traced later on. If the morons at Universal would download a brain, they might stumble onto a plan that actually works without offending more potential customers. Personally, DRM or no DRM, for now I'll stick with iTunes.

Music has an imprint at sale when downloaded that tracks it as it spreads over the internet. This probably a lot to do about nothing, universal is probably trying to set up a fail case to justify draconian measures of control. But hey i am a cynic.
 
I'm really begging to dislike Universal as a whole.
I mean even the movie guys are being *******s by only putting their films on HD DVD.

Some of my favorite movies are Universal!

Not the same company.

See the Wikipedia entry for Universal Music Group and NBC Universal.

Then why the same logos?

They maybe two separate entity's but i bet they are owned by one and the same.

Like Bommai and I said earlier, the only ownership overlap is with Vivendi SA (the parent company of the Universal Music Group) owning 20% of NBC Universal.
 
Go to emusic.com

You have to pay a subscription and you have no idea WHO they have without signing up.

Others have already pointed out that you can get a free trial and/or browse directly to the page where you can search for music. I just thought I'd point out that while the standard emusic trial is for 25 songs, you can get a 100-song free just by Googling a little bit. http://www.emusic.com/ge/ looks like it'll give you 100 songs. I found this out after I'd done my 25-song free trial. Grrr. :mad: ;)

On this topic in general, there's really nothing not to like here. The Apple fanboyism is, predictably, over the top. Let's see, we have:

  • Yet another one of the big boys dabbling in DRM-free downloads. Good for us.
  • Universal poking at Apple, the market leader, keeping them on their toes. This can only force Apple to offer a better service in order to compete. Good for us.
  • Did I mention DRM-free music downloads?

My one concern regarding this is really about a related industry: the movie industry. While the music industry is buckling under pressure and slowly doing away with DRM, I don't see the movie industry doing that any time soon. They seem to feel that because their first digital consumer product (the DVD) had encryption from day one, that they have more "right" or more of a precedent to shove DRM down the consumer's throat. And sadly, they seem to be winning.

Even Apple and Steve Jobs (who has a bit of a conflict of interest with Disney/Pixar) won't touch the idea of non-DRM movies. They know the movie studios won't buckle like the music companies have started to do. Heck, we still don't have the movie equivalent of iTunes where you rip your DVDs to a huge hard drive and then have them all available to watch at a moment's notice. iTunes has a video library, but that's either DRM-laden purchased files, or stuff you have to painstakingly convert yourself (and lose DVD features like menus and extras). It's pathetic. There's no technical reason we can't do this - it's all political.

So I say while it's nice that we seem to be winning the battle with music companies (for now, anyway), we have to put more pressure on the movie companies. They, too, need to be shown that encryption and DRM do not thwart piracy, but only penalize the honest consumer who wants to manage their purchased content for the best experience. Totally ridiculous.
 
Others have already pointed out that you can get a free trial and/or browse directly to the page where you can search for music. I just thought I'd point out that while the standard emusic trial is for 25 songs, you can get a 100-song free just by Googling a little bit. http://www.emusic.com/ge/ looks like it'll give you 100 songs. I found this out after I'd done my 25-song free trial. Grrr. :mad: ;)

On this topic in general, there's really nothing not to like here. The Apple fanboyism is, predictably, over the top. Let's see, we have:

  • Yet another one of the big boys dabbling in DRM-free downloads. Good for us.
  • Universal poking at Apple, the market leader, keeping them on their toes. This can only force Apple to offer a better service in order to compete. Good for us.
  • Did I mention DRM-free music downloads?

My one concern regarding this is really about a related industry: the movie industry. While the music industry is buckling under pressure and slowly doing away with DRM, I don't see the movie industry doing that any time soon. They seem to feel that because their first digital consumer product (the DVD) had encryption from day one, that they have more "right" or more of a precedent to shove DRM down the consumer's throat. And sadly, they seem to be winning.

Even Apple and Steve Jobs (who has a bit of a conflict of interest with Disney/Pixar) won't touch the idea of non-DRM movies. They know the movie studios won't buckle like the music companies have started to do. Heck, we still don't have the movie equivalent of iTunes where you rip your DVDs to a huge hard drive and then have them all available to watch at a moment's notice. iTunes has a video library, but that's either DRM-laden purchased files, or stuff you have to painstakingly convert yourself (and lose DVD features like menus and extras). It's pathetic. There's no technical reason we can't do this - it's all political.

So I say while it's nice that we seem to be winning the battle with music companies (for now, anyway), we have to put more pressure on the movie companies. They, too, need to be shown that encryption and DRM do not thwart piracy, but only penalize the honest consumer who wants to manage their purchased content for the best experience. Totally ridiculous.

Does macrovision count as DRM? If so then count VHS in as well.

What I find humorous in the movie situation is the love of BR when it is the most DRM ladened format (BD+). Not to mention the Region Encoding that has to be put up with.
 
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