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I know

So how on earth do they expect to get results from this "test" with out using the largest online music store? Personally any listed place that they are offering this too are places I would not shop for online music. I think Universal is being stupid. They acting like a whinny teenager.

I see this issue the exact same way, I mean the people at Universal are just being sutupid. Yeah, people will shop less on iTunes if they can't find the music, but nobody will buy the music online! There is a HUGE chance for a virus there! I think Universal should shut up and leave music exclusively to iTunes. Even with no viruses, this is a stupid move.
Without the music on iTunes, the music company will loose money on top selling songs. These are not just everyday songs these are top selling artists such as 50 Cent, Akon, Amy Winehouse (In my opinion, she can just leave, but to others she might be good), Blink 182, Black-Eyed Peas, Bon Jovi, Dashboad Confessional, Eminem, Fall Out Boy, Guns N' Roses, Gwen Stefani, Jack Johnson, Jay-Z, Jimmy Eat World, Keane, Kiss, NOT LINDSAY LOHAN, Ludacris, Maroon 5, Nelly, Nelly Furtado, NickleBack, Nine Inch Nails (For some peoples hard side, just in case they need to see that evil somehow lies in the name Universal.), and much more! We need to stand up! I call that we, the people of MACRUMORS start a movement against this! Anybody that is with me, mail me a private message about this today! If you want to help to keep Universal Music on iTunes, now is the time to start. Just think, not being able to have your favorite artists on iTunes anymore! To see a compleate list of them go to this link. If you do not want to help then think of a tomorrow where you cannot get any music on iTunes! Think about a world controlled by Walmart! Which kills an economy and overall makes things harder! Now is the time to stand, now people of Macrumors!
 
They're clearly not -- they're just using that excuse as a smokescreen to not make it seem like they're intentionally withholding product from the retailer people like to use most.

I understand their intent -- and if people were actively upset with FairPlay, and the other services worked as smoothly and easily with the iPod as the iTMS does, it may be a very powerful move against iTunes. Unfortunately, it seems they're once again not understanding why the iPod/iTMS combination works so easily, and what music purchasers really care about. (And I am speaking about music purchasers as a whole group; those of us that care about 128kbs and DRM are the minority).

I agree. itune store is so large is because ipods. Apple is using itune store as one of the reason to buy ipods. Not everyone buying ipod will buy music from the itune store since ipod will work with any source of music legal or not legal. Steve jobs said that they use the store to sell more ipod but without it they are still selling ipod at a amazing rate.

So my conclusion is who care about universal whinny and fear of apple gaining too much control. As long as ipod is still easy to use and apple could sell lots of ipod(since they don't earn that much from the store but rely on ipod sales mostly) then the ipod part of apple will being doing well.
 
Of course you can browse their entire catalogue without needing to pay the subscription fee:
http://www.emusic.com/browse/all.html

Don't forget, too, that emusic's subscription model is vastly different from the models advocated by most other online subscription services.

With most subscription models, all the songs you've already acquired will self-destruct as soon as you allow the subscription to lapse.

With emusic, once you download the track, it's yours forever. The subscription just makes it possible for you to continue acquiring additional tracks in the future.

Thanks for the info.This is my point.Had nobody said anything about where to find any sort of index I would have never known.There is no direct link to artists on their homepage.And it's still a subscription model which I am firmly against.
If I choose not to download any music in a given month I still have to pay.

No thanks.
 
I think you should all care more about the QUALITY of the sound. A much as I love my iPod and taking everyhting with me, we should demand better quality than MP3s. Good article from the San Francisco Chronicle: (yeah I know you already know all this):


MP3 music - it's better than it sounds

Joel Selvin, Chronicle Senior Pop Music Critic
Wednesday, August 8, 2007

Whether you know it or not, that compact disc you just copied to your MP3 player is only partially there.

With the CD on its way out and computer files taking over as the primary means of hearing recorded music, the artificial audio of MP3s is quickly becoming the primary way people listen to music. Apple already has sold 100 million iPods, and more than a billion MP3 files are traded every month through the Internet.

[ MP3: Just because it's digital, doesn't mean it sounds good.]

But the music contained in these computer files represents less than 10 percent of the original music on the CDs. In its journey from CD to MP3 player, the music has been compressed by eliminating data that computer analysis deems redundant, squeezed down until it fits through the Internet pipeline.

When even the full files on the CDs contain less than half the information stored to studio hard drives during recording, these compressed MP3s represent a minuscule fraction of the actual recording. For purists, it's the dark ages of recorded sound.

"You can get used to awful," says record producer Phil Ramone. "You can appreciate nothing. We've done it with fast food."

Ramone, who has recorded everyone from Frank Sinatra to the Rolling Stones, was a musical prodigy who graduated from Juilliard at 16. He won the first of his nine Grammys in 1965 for the classic album "Getz/Gilberto." He is not alone in the upper ranks of his profession in decrying the state of audio, even though millions of dollars have been spent building high-tech digital recording studios.

"We're pretty happy with what we send out," says engineer Al Schmitt, winner of 15 Grammys for records by artists from Henry Mancini to Diana Krall. "What happens after that, we have no control over that anymore."

These studio professionals bring their experience and expensive, modern technology to bear on their work; they're scrupulous and fastidious. Then they hear their work played back on an iPod through a pair of plastic earbuds. Ask Ramone how it feels to hear his work on MP3s, and he doesn't mince words.

"It's painful," he says.

MP3s have won the war of the formats because of technology, not because of their audio quality. "It's like hearing through a screen door," says neuroscientist Daniel Levitin of McGill University, author of "This Is Your Brain on Music." "There are lines between me and what I want to see."

But what is the price of inferior audio quality? Can poor audio touch the heart as deeply as better sound? John Meyer, who designs and builds some of the world's best speakers at his Meyer Sound Labs in Berkeley, doesn't think so.

"It turns you into an observer," Meyer says. "It forces the brain to work harder to solve it all the time. Any compression system is based on the idea you can throw data away, and that's proved tricky because we don't know how the brain works."

It could be that MP3s actually reach the receptors in our brains in entirely different ways than analog phonograph records. The difference could be as fundamental as which brain hemisphere the music engages.

"Poorer-fidelity music stimulates the brain in different ways," says Dr. Robert Sweetow, head of UCSF audiology department. "With different neurons, perhaps lesser neurons, stimulated, there are fewer cortical neurons connected back to the limbic system, where the emotions are stored."

But Sweetow also notes that music with lyrics may act entirely differently on a cerebral level than instrumental music. "The words trigger the emotion," he says. "But those words aren't necessarily affected by fidelity."

Certainly '50s and '60s teens got the message of the old rock 'n' roll records through cheap plastic transistor radios. Levitin remembers hearing Sly and the Family Stone's "Hot Fun in the Summertime" on just such a portable radio, an ancient ancestor of the iPod.

"It was crap, but it sounded great," he says. "All the essential stuff comes through that inch-and-a-half speaker."

Levitin also says that Enrico Caruso and Billie Holiday can probably move him more than Michael Bolton or Mariah Carey under any fidelity.

"If the power of the narrative of the movie isn't there," he says metaphorically, "there's only so far cinematography can take you."

Most of today's pop records are already compressed before they leave the studio in the first place, so the process may matter less to artists like Maroon 5 or Justin Timberlake. Other kinds of music, in which subtlety, detail and shaded tonalities are important, may suffer more harm at the hands of the algorithms.

"When you listen to a world-class symphony or a good jazz record," says Schmitt, "and you hear all the nuance in the voices, the fingers touching the string on the bass, the key striking the string on the piano, that's just a wonderful sensation."

How much the audio quality is affected by the MP3 process depends on the compression strategy, the encoder used, the playback equipment, computer speed and many other steps along the way. Experts agree, however, that the audio quality of most MP3s is somewhere around FM radio. The best digital audio, even with increased sampling rates and higher bit rates, still falls short of the natural quality of now-obsolete analog tape recording.

EMI Records announced earlier this year the introduction of higher-priced downloads at a slightly higher bit rate, although the difference will be difficult to detect. "It's probably indistinguishable to even a great set of ears," says Levitin.

How good MP3s sound obviously also depends greatly on the playback system. But most MP3s are heard through cheap computer speakers, plastic iPod docking stations or, worse yet, those audio abominations called earbuds.

The ease of distribution means that MP3s are turning up everywhere, even places where they probably shouldn't. Schmitt, who has won the award more times than anyone else, is incredulous that the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences posts MP3s of nominees for the best engineering Grammy. "As if you could tell anything from that," he sneers.

For digital audio to substantially improve, several major technological hurdles will have to be cleared. The files will have to be stored at higher sampling rates and higher bit rates. Computing power will have to grow. New playback machines will have to be introduced ( Ramone thinks high-definition television is the model for something that could be "HD audio"). If the Internet is going to be the main delivery system for music in the future, as appears to be the case, Internet bandwidth will also be a factor.

"The Internet is in charge now," says Ramone, "and it has all kinds of wobbles. You have wires hanging out of windows and things like that. That's just the way things have to be because the Internet is in transition."

Meanwhile, most music listeners don't know what they're missing. They listen to MP3s on shiny chrome machines and plastic earpieces, and what they hear is what they get. But what's being lost is not replaced by the convenience.

In effect, sound reproduction is caught in a technological wrinkle that may take years to straighten out. "This is a transition phase," says McGill's Levitin. "It's having an effect on the culture, no question, but it's temporary. ... (But) it may be around for a while."


I agree completely. However, that is just the way american consumerism works.... convenience > quality. Also i wouldn't be surprised if when the internet pipeline widens for most consumers, flac and hopefully .wav will be what is sold.
 
I see this issue the exact same way, I mean the people at Universal are just being sutupid. Yeah, people will shop less on iTunes if they can't find the music, but nobody will buy the music online! There is a HUGE chance for a virus there! I think Universal should shut up and leave music exclusively to iTunes. Even with no viruses, this is a stupid move.
Without the music on iTunes, the music company will loose money on top selling songs. These are not just everyday songs these are top selling artists such as 50 Cent, Akon, Amy Winehouse (In my opinion, she can just leave, but to others she might be good), Blink 182, Black-Eyed Peas, Bon Jovi, Dashboad Confessional, Eminem, Fall Out Boy, Guns N' Roses, Gwen Stefani, Jack Johnson, Jay-Z, Jimmy Eat World, Keane, Kiss, NOT LINDSAY LOHAN, Ludacris, Maroon 5, Nelly, Nelly Furtado, NickleBack, Nine Inch Nails (For some peoples hard side, just in case they need to see that evil somehow lies in the name Universal.), and much more! We need to stand up! I call that we, the people of MACRUMORS start a movement against this! Anybody that is with me, mail me a private message about this today! If you want to help to keep Universal Music on iTunes, now is the time to start. Just think, not being able to have your favorite artists on iTunes anymore! To see a compleate list of them go to this link. If you do not want to help then think of a tomorrow where you cannot get any music on iTunes! Think about a world controlled by Walmart! Which kills an economy and overall makes things harder! Now is the time to stand, now people of Macrumors!


chill guy, the music isn't leaving iTunes. What it is doing is creating an offensive agains iTunes that will hopefully result in a compromise that is best for everyone. More diversification in choice of digital stores, cheaper product, etc.
 
chill guy, the music isn't leaving iTunes. What it is doing is creating an offensive agains iTunes that will hopefully result in a compromise that is best for everyone. More diversification in choice of digital stores, cheaper product, etc.

We haven' lost the music.... Yet. I am thinking that Universal will pull out in January, just in time for their new music deals to start up, because, according to many news sources, it is not just a six month trial period, it is a six month trial period, then, the Universal Music store will go up in January.
 
We haven' lost the music.... Yet. I am thinking that Universal will pull out in January, just in time for their new music deals to start up, because, according to many news sources, it is not just a six month trial period, it is a six month trial period, then, the Universal Music store will go up in January.

And then in order to support the artists you enjoy, you buy from their store
 
Maybe somebody already answered this but is it possible to know what are the figures for EMI DMR-free on iTunes? I know I buy as much as possible ;) but still, it would be interesting to know
 
Competition is good. DRM free music is good.

I find it ironic they are selling at $0.99. Which makes me think this really isn't so much to do with iTMS, as it does with not wanting to let a ton of their DRM free music out in the wild while they TEST it. Remember, this is a short run test. I wouldn't be surprised if they allow DRM free music on iTMS and make and few extra pennies off it since the price there is $1.29.
 
Competition is good. DRM free music is good.

I find it ironic they are selling at $0.99. Which makes me think this really isn't so much to do with iTMS, as it does with not wanting to let a ton of their DRM free music out in the wild while they TEST it. Remember, this is a short run test. I wouldn't be surprised if they allow DRM free music on iTMS and make and few extra pennies off it since the price there is $1.29.

I concur. . . it's hilarious that Universal's test is at the same price point they bitch about at the iTunes store. Also agree that they'll knuckle under after a short period of time - after suffering a public relations black eye and a few artists bolting from their stable - and join EMI with DRM-free downloads on the iTunes store.

I wouldn't be surprised if the pirate community actively targets Universal in response to their feeble gesture to contain Apple. And at least one Universal executive will get scapegoated and sacrificed as a result of this bonehead decision to constrict sales at iTunes, once it's revealed the backlash on this decision to exclude Apple did more harm than good.

Oh yeah. . . the big loser here is Microsoft, as their investment in the DRM approach continues to dwindle in relevance. No disagreement that this is a win for consumers, albeit just a baby step until most labels are offering DRM-free music downloads across most channels.

DRM is still probably relevant for the movie industry. That's a different consumer experience altogether.
 
I'm not going to read everyone's bitching and moaning.... but this is finally someone taking a proactive step for the good of the industry and against itunes. I am an apple user, but when having only one main digital store for all music is a bad thing. Competition is necessary and this should help those other services grow to have a positive digital economy.
competition is fine, but what universal is trying to do is greed, and trying to be the microsoft of the music world, try to win through unfair deals and bullying... Too bad they also have their artists by the balls, and I amy have to buy music from them from artists I like.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind them offering their songs elsewhere, as long as iTunes is also included. I personally would not realy want to go and shop elsewhere, as I am happy with iTunes in general, and it's integration with iPod , my music library, etc.

Universal (and other music companies) PLEASE stop being greedy, and do not screw us consumers, we are your customers, so be nice!
 
I understand the fear of Apple, or any one company controlling their distribution, but for the love of God will these people please start thinking about the customer.

Here's a plan:

1. Sell your music via CD in stores
2. Sell your music at decent bit rates to exceptional bit rates. Price accordingly, but don't be greedy.
3. Sell your music DRM free by song, by album, and by "super album" with videos, pdfs, etc.) Price accordingly, but don't be greedy.

Do they, and everyone will make good money.

Someone needs to let the record labels know that Napster is dead. Yes, people still steal music online, just like they steal software online. But Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit, Apple, all make a ton of money and profits anyway.

Yes, some people will steal your products. But if you give most people choice, empowerment, freedom with their products, and fair pricing, they will be honest. And you will be rich.

The funny thing about this is Universal is going to lose this stand-off. And you better believe they are going to feel the wrath of Jobs in January when he knows empirically that they cannot survive without his service. Then they will be screwed.
 
competition is fine, but what universal is trying to do is greed, and trying to be the microsoft of the music world, try to win through unfair deals and bullying... Too bad they also have their artists by the balls, and I amy have to buy music from them from artists I like.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind them offering their songs elsewhere, as long as iTunes is also included. I personally would not realy want to go and shop elsewhere, as I am happy with iTunes in general, and it's integration with iPod , my music library, etc.

Universal (and other music companies) PLEASE stop being greedy, and do not screw us consumers, we are your customers, so be nice!

I agree completely.
 
Wrong!!! They used to be the same in the past. But GE bought Universal Studios from Seagram and merged it with their NBC unit. Vivendi bought Universal Music. So, Vivendi (French) owns Universal Music. GE (USA) owns Universal Studios. Both entities are pissing me off because I back Bluray (I own the PS3 and love it) and I love Apple. The irony here is I work for GE!

Then, perhaps you could silently switch the Universal (GE) DVD-Burners for Bluray ones... ;):D
 
This is quite clearly a deliberate act of war against iTunes and Apple.

It's very disappointing as it goes against EVERYTHING that a free market economy stands for.

If all these other stores were so great then Universal would give every store DRM free music to sell and let the consumer use the one they prefer. By excluding iTunes they are effectively says 'F*ck you Apple and your ipod users can go f*ck themselves as well'. And now to get DRM free Universal music you have to go to some other piece of sh*t store..

Really it's EXACTLY that strong a message.
 
This is quite clearly a deliberate act of war against iTunes and Apple.

It's very disappointing as it goes against EVERYTHING that a free market economy stands for.

If all these other stores were so great then Universal would give every store DRM free music to sell and let the consumer use the one they prefer. By excluding iTunes they are effectively says 'F*ck you Apple and your ipod users can go f*ck themselves as well'. And now to get DRM free Universal music you have to go to some other piece of sh*t store..

Really it's EXACTLY that strong a message.

Yeah it is like that. It is an act of war.
 
I think that Apple will respond to Universal's posturing by doing absolutely nothing.

Then, if - when - Universal's experiment fails, Apple will be able to beat them with the 'Piracy Stick' during negotiations for a new and improved iTunes contract.

Schadenfreude and all that!
 
I agree. Apple really doesn't have to do anything. Heck, Apple only gets less than %30 of each song sold in iTunes. With a lot of talk of diversification and the betterment of the consumer universe and all that jazz, all I really see is Universal trying like mad to get more money out of iTunes. Seriously, these ARE the people that get $1 out of every Zune yanno.
 
It will be real interesting to see how Jobs reacts to this.If I were him I'd pull ALL of Universals music and tell them to..You know.
Apple has already said that it would prefer to sell music without any DRM if the labels would allow it to do so. EMI agreed to do so, but only if they received more money per song for the music they make available on iTunes Plus. If Universal is willing to sell music without DRM at the established price, Apple should give them the choice of either making the music available on the iTunes Music Store without DRM for the same price or pulling all of their music off of iTunes.
 
I understand the fear of Apple, or any one company controlling their distribution, but for the love of God will these people please start thinking about the customer.

Here's a plan:

1. Sell your music via CD in stores
2. Sell your music at decent bit rates to exceptional bit rates. Price accordingly, but don't be greedy.
3. Sell your music DRM free by song, by album, and by "super album" with videos, pdfs, etc.) Price accordingly, but don't be greedy.

Do they, and everyone will make good money.

Someone needs to let the record labels know that Napster is dead. Yes, people still steal music online, just like they steal software online. But Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit, Apple, all make a ton of money and profits anyway.

Yes, some people will steal your products. But if you give most people choice, empowerment, freedom with their products, and fair pricing, they will be honest. And you will be rich.

The funny thing about this is Universal is going to lose this stand-off. And you better believe they are going to feel the wrath of Jobs in January when he knows empirically that they cannot survive without his service. Then they will be screwed.


Sounds good but the problem now is there are very few stores that sell full catalogue anymore. Towers used to (in Theory) carry every CD from ever label. Yeah the last few years not so much. Virgin sort of does but they have fewer stores than Tower did and that's it. There are a few indies like Amoeba in San Franciosco Berkeley and LA which might now be the best record stores for music people in the world- they also carry used CDs. You all got to go there if you can.

But where else? So many CDs cannot be found in stores. Yes on Amazon but you have to look for them. The chains like Target Best Buy and so only have the hits and maybe some catalogue but not even all albums by the so called major artists. Labels have cut catalogues. Especially after Tower died.

And online, the sonic quality is less that perfect. Even at iTunes. I for one would rather pay for a whole CD. Even if I don't love every track. But I don't only play back via an iPod or Computer. I still love a great stereo and surround sound system. Nothing matches that!
 
Jobs must like this...

If they, and the media, also spin this to be a move to stir up the competition and put pressure on apple, then all the better from Univeral's point of view.

Regardless, the mere fact that Universal are playing with no DRM is a good thing... And even if they do play with apple for a while, im sure they'll make an iTunes deal eventually :)

Steve Jobs has stated on numerous occasions that iTunes music store is an avenue to sell iPods, nothing Universal is doing would impact that market.

Apple sells iPods and makes $$$ that is used to create cool new products, :apple:TV, iPhone, new Macs best operating system on earth.

DRM-free just makes iPods stronger...
 
The solution to piracy is to embed a virus into illegal downloads. A powerful mini app, not some crippled MS app. It infests the host computer with a perpetual and undetectable action which slowly charges small amounts against all charge cards and bank accounts of the host and randomly distributes it to recording artists. I think we could call it the Robin Hood Virus.... illegal downloaders beware.
 
If I was an artist signed to one of their labels I would be PISSED!!!

That is what Universal has to be worried about. They must be in a position where their top names aren't due to sign a new contract in the near future, but they still have to address the issue of responding to their top names complaining.

Of course, Apple can also play the game by not giving Universal the prime promotional positions in the weekly iTunes email, or front page of their site.
 
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