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University Researchers Who Built a CSAM Scanning System Urge Apple to Not Use the 'Dangerous' Technology

While I hate the intrusion and violation of privacy, despite the good intentions, because we all know it will be abused for something other than the original public intention.

I wonder if this is more Apple protecting itself, as some govt. entity has come after them for unknowingly hosting illicit child images/vids in the cloud.
 
dgrey said:
I’d love to see:
  • Incredibly low uptake of iOS and iPadOS 15.
  • Protests outside of Apple Stores.
  • iDevice bonfire events around the country where people gather, throw their iPhones, iPads, and any other Apple device they want into massive piles that are then set on fire.
  • New device sales plummet, because nobody wants a new device with iOS 15 on it.
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Nice thought, probably not realistic but nice, the truth is the majority of their customers won’t even hear about this and probably the majority that do won’t understand the threat… I’ve witnessed many arguments over the last few days that muddy the waters bad enough to where people completely miss the point of the client side software violation. That remains the core issue. Apple Will continue to muddy those waters by talking about the technical aspects of csam til people’s eyes glaze over and they will install this spyware on everyone’s devices. Hope they backtrack but I’ll be surprised if they do since they haven’t already. I hope they pay a high price for this though… they will deserve it
 
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rme said:
The 3rd one is too 3rd reich-ish in my opinion. I suggest we just shred them and dump them in Apple's courtyard.
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Nah. I was inspired by the ”Disco Demolition Night” that took place in the summer of 1979 at Comiskey Park. I was 11 at the time and remember seeing it on TV and it was hilarious.
 
A foreign government could, for example, compel a service to out people sharing disfavored political speech. That's no hypothetical: WeChat, the popular Chinese messaging app, already uses content matching to identify dissident material. India enacted rules this year that could require pre-screening content critical of government policy. Russia recently fined Google, Facebook and Twitter for not removing pro-democracy protest materials.

We spotted other shortcomings. The content-matching process could have false positives, and malicious users could game the system to subject innocent users to scrutiny.

We were so disturbed that we took a step we hadn't seen before in computer science literature: We warned against our own system design, urging further research on how to mitigate the serious downsides....
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This is exactly the problem. Once this system is in place it will be expanded. There is no way Apple will be able to stand up to the "requests" of certain governments.

I can't believe how badly Apple stepped in it this time. They shouldn't be surprised by this reaction and yet they are.
 
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Mercury7 said:
Nice thought, probably not realistic but nice, the truth is the majority of their customers won’t even hear about this and probably the majority that do won’t understand the threat… I’ve witnessed many arguments over the last few days that muddy the waters bad enough to where people completely miss the point of the client side software violation. That remains the core issue. Apple Will continue to muddy those waters by talking about the technical aspects of csam til people’s eyes glaze over and they will install this spyware on everyone’s devices. Hope they backtrack but I’ll be surprised if they do since they haven’t already. I hope they pay a high price for this though… they will deserve it
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I agree.

Apple did a cost-benefit analysis before developing the back door. Yes, there will be blow back. But, imagine if they didn't develop this? Apple is a big fish telling us what we should buy. Only a bigger fish can tell Apple what it should do. Who are these bigger fish? -- State actors. China. Russia. USA. Any of the nations can make it very uncomfortable to Apple's bottom line. Apple is taking the hint (threat?) and playing ball unless it wants to get shut out of a market.
 
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dgrey said:
Nah. I was inspired by the ”Disco Demolition Night” that took place in the summer of 1979 at Comiskey Park. I was 11 at the time and remember seeing it on TV and it was hilarious.
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Thank god for youtube. *popcorn*
 
Reed_College_Dropout said:
I'm all for people getting busted for viewing/storing/distributing CP of any kind, but I have serious concerns with this tech being used for other reasons which have already been mentioned on this and other MacRumors threads several times. This will be coming to a desktop near you as well, if this isn't stopped...
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It’s going to be in Monterey.
 
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jk1221 said:
Same. I'm going to see what the Pixel 6 is before making a decision, but the 5a is a REALLY good phone for a really good price. Or possibly a Galaxy S21 line, which is now discounted heavily. I expect no Note this year so this should be the end of the major, US available at least, phone announcements really.

And since I went prepaid on Mint, since $20/month with more data is WAY better than $60 on ATT, I have to buy any new phone outright. Not that money is a concern at all, and a partial business expense anyway truly, but why spend double? Im getting tired of the premium phone thing personally and do I really need it anymore after buying many $1k+ iphones now.

And no, it is not JUST CSAM. But anyone who was on the fence already with Apple, or doesn't care what OS, may be pushed off it now.
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Same here. I've preordered the Galaxy Z Fold 3 - 512GB. I cannot wait for it to arrive on 8/27. I want a foldable phone to replace my iPhone and iPad Mini and clearly Apple isn't releasing one anytime soon. And now this on top of Apple's ugly and outdated notch, hideous bezels, etc. It is a sad day indeed.
 
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Reed_College_Dropout said:
I'm all for people getting busted for viewing/storing/distributing CP of any kind, but I have serious concerns with this tech being used for other reasons which have already been mentioned on this and other MacRumors threads several times. This will be coming to a desktop near you as well, if this isn't stopped...
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It’s a certainty it will be on Mac OS …the silence by all the other major players besides some of the social media does have my red flags flying…. I would feel better if google and Microsoft came out against this publicly… silence can be nefarious…. Find it odd the media is not even seeking comment from them that I have seen so far…. I mean there has certainly been enough time for that
 
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Since Apple's announcement of the feature, the company has been bombarded with concerns that the system behind detecting CSAM could be used to detect other forms of photos at the request of oppressive governments. Apple has strongly pushed back against such a possibility, saying it will refuse any such request from governments.
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And is there anyone who believes that when China's Xi wants to know who in China has pictures of Winnie the Pooh that the Sycophantic Timmy will do anything other than trip over his own feet his scramble to grant the request as quickly as possible?

Given the financial harm that will happen to Apple if they turn down such a request, at that point it might be too late for Apple to say no even if they replace Timmy with someone who has a few morals.
 
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Reed_College_Dropout said:
Same here. I've preordered the Galaxy Z Fold 3 - 512GB. I cannot wait for it to arrive on 8/27. I want a foldable phone to replace my iPhone and iPad Mini and clearly Apple isn't releasing one anytime soon. And now this on top of Apple's ugly and outdated notch, hideous bezels, etc. It is a sad day indeed.
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I did some light shopping just in case, the pixel 6 pro looks interesting…. I’m not excited to move though, best case scenario is they backtrack and I forgive the misstep
 
FBI: Help us break into iPhones.
Apple: No.
FBI: Do it.
Apple: We don’t have the keys.
FBI: Make an iOS version that we can use on the phone to bypass the keys.
Apple: No.
FBI: Terrorism.
Apple: No.
FBI: Child porn.
Apple: No.
FBI: We’ve arrested Jonah Federighi. He’s looking at 30 years on federal drug charges.
Apple: We’re listening.
FBI: We found a few cases of child porn being stored on iCloud. We are prepared to prosecute you for allowing it.
Apple: There is no such legal requirement.
FBI: That will change after televised hearings.
Apple: What do you suggest?
FBI: Search everyone’s phone for image violations and report offenders to us.
Apple: No one would tolerate that policy.
FBI: Do it quietly under the guise that images uploaded to your servers require additional scrutiny.
Apple: But we are charging people for that storage space and allow privacy in how people use it.
FBI: Do the analysis on the phone, not the servers.
Apple: They’re not our phones. We sold them to people. You have to have a warrant to search each one.
FBI: An inconvenient truth. If YOU do the search, no warrant is needed.
Apple: You really think this will make a difference to protect children?
FBI: Of course not. Offenders will use other means. This is about our political power and looking like we’re doing something. It’s an opportunity for you as well. It will help sell phones. It will help us down the road.
Apple: Down the road?
FBI: Once you enable a reporting tool behind the encrypted phone, we’ll be able to ask for other things later and you will no longer be able to say it’s not technically possible.
Apple: Sneaky.
FBI: We’re the government, and we’re here to help.
Apple: We’ll report only if 100 images match up to known hashes.
FBI: 5.
Apple: 50.
FBI: 10.
Apple: 40.
FBI: 20.
Apple: Let me talk to Tim.
FBI: OK.
Apple: 30. And we want all military personnel to be given iPhones.
FBI: Deal.
Apple: We’ll make a low key announcement and jumble it in with blocking nudity on kids phones in iMessage. No way anyone is going to object and stand up for pedophiles. We’re in.
FBI: Great. We’re working now with child protection services on the hashes. You can pick up Jonah at 3. As a sign of good faith, we will give you full access to a captured Tic-Tac.
Apple: The UFOs spotted by military planes over the ocean? You have one?
FBI: We do. But we don’t understand it. We could use your help with reverse engineering.
Apple: That won’t be necessary.
FBI: Why is that?
Apple: It’s one of our prototypes.
 
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Mercury7 said:
I did some light shopping just in case, the pixel 6 pro looks interesting…. I’m not excited to move though, best case scenario is they backtrack and I forgive the misstep
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Knowing my luck they'll ban custom ROMs 15 days after I've bought one. So I'm going to wait till it's supported by Graphene.
 
Mercury7 said:
I did some light shopping just in case, the pixel 6 pro looks interesting…. I’m not excited to move though, best case scenario is they backtrack and I forgive the misstep
Click to expand...
Samsung is offering a 21-day try before you buy so I thought, why not? I don't have anything to lose. I'm not a fan of Android or Google, but my friend has the Fold 2 (and soon the Fold 3) and it is an amazing piece of tech. I've already backed up my iCloud photos/contacts/calendar which for me are the most important items. I'm prepared to ditch my iPhone 12 Pro Max and iPad Mini if the Fold 3 works out. If I switch and Apple not only ditches this idea and also launches a foldable phone next year, I will most likely come back.

I also got a free year of Samsung Care+, with one free display replacement included. My friend is fairly rough on phones and his Fold 2 has had no screen issues. The Fold 3 is tougher all around as well.
 
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Mercury7 said:
I did some light shopping just in case, the pixel 6 pro looks interesting…. I’m not excited to move though, best case scenario is they backtrack and I forgive the misstep
Click to expand...

Tough choice. New chip is going to make it hard to recommend buying it right at launch without some reviews and time first. It could be great, or could have issues or app compatibility issues.

I THINK my eye is more toward the 5a right now. It's basically everything you need n a phone- relatively big AMOLED (60hz but really, so?), water-resistant, HUGE battery, decent enough specs and storage, all for $450. That would not be a huge hit to me to take selling it off to buy a 6 or something else later.

You should also be able to basically not kill the thing with a 765G and basically 4700mah; many hours of screen on.

Even if Google announces the 6 in October you may not get full hands-on reviews and find issues/compatibility issues until Nov-Dec once it gets in more hands.

But I'm very undecided still. I think 6gb RAM may be a touch too low for me in 2021-2022. 8 would've been just fine.

An S21 variant of some sort on huge discount could be a better buy there still for an extra $100-150.... But then you lose stock Android and the fast update factor too is my biggest issue.

Reed_College_Dropout said:
Samsung is offering a 21-day try before you buy so I thought, why not? I don't have anything to lose. I'm not a fan of Android or Google, but my friend has the Fold 2 (and soon the Fold 3) and it is an amazing piece of tech. I've already backed up my iCloud photos/contacts/calendar which for me are the most important items. I'm prepared to ditch my iPhone 12 Pro Max and iPad Mini if the Fold 3 works out. If I switch and Apple not only ditches this idea and also launches a foldable phone next year, I will most likely come back.
Click to expand...

For me, just IMO, the Fold is just too fragile (and expensive) still. Getting WAY better and certainly impressive but there is still too much risk with that display to shell out that much $.
 
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The abuse concern is real. Someone can send you a modified photo that tricks the system into a false positive and then you are flagged since it’s on YOUR phone.

Is Apple going to pay your legal fees? Will your “identify theft” insurance pay?
 
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I’m starting to think a lot of nonces are trying to organize to stop Apple.

But they won’t.

Nonces are going down or they are going out.
 
ikramerica said:
The abuse concern is real. Someone can send you a modified photo that tricks the system into a false positive and then you are flagged since it’s on YOUR phone.

Is Apple going to pay your legal fees? Will your “identify theft” insurance pay?
Click to expand...
Tim will send you a postcard every Christmas you spend in prison.
 
Mercury7 said:
I did some light shopping just in case, the pixel 6 pro looks interesting…. I’m not excited to move though, best case scenario is they backtrack and I forgive the misstep
Click to expand...
I'm finding that harder and harder to imagine for myself. I already decided not to get a new MBP or iPad Pro, but now no new iPhone 13 either. I wish I could sell my M1 MBA for a decent price. (I'm keeping my Intel Mac Mini, I can keep it on an older OS.)
 
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