I think it is worse, games aren't even made with Macs in mind. So it feels like we get the leftovers of the PC/Console world. What sucks in my opinion is the iOS games getting ported to Mac OS via the Mac App store, because there is a void in games from the big studios. It is as if no one actually believes that the folks who shell out the loot for Apple hardware will be stingy when it comes to buying software
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Unreal Engine 3 Comes to the Mac Platform
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I think it is worse, games aren't even made with Macs in mind. So it feels like we get the leftovers of the PC/Console world. What sucks in my opinion is the iOS games getting ported to Mac OS via the Mac App store, because there is a void in games from the big studios. It is as if no one actually believes that the folks who shell out the loot for Apple hardware will be stingy when it comes to buying software
Its not tiny. There are a ton of PC gamers, a lot of which are FPS and MMORPG gamers simply because a noobstick controller on a console is like having sex without an orgasm.
Since I play mainly FPS games, I am *never* going to have a console, and there are many others that swear by PC gaming.
Apple has done a *great* job by undermining the gaming market and then boasting about its own (factually lousy) achievements. Hell, if Apple really wanted to push gaming, we'd be running OpenGL 4.0, getting desktop grade video cards in iMacs, decent prices (not 2X the price, literally), CURRENT video cards (not last gen)... and the biggest dream of them all (which will never happen because the word choice simply does not exist in steve jobs' vocabulary).... a headless iMac.
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PC games aren't made for mac for a few reasons;
too small of a market (regardless of apples recent success)
really REALLY shi*ty hardware to run those games on
cost to port and the need for OpenGL
I agree with everything you said,
but mac gaming is getting better,
All of Valve and Blizzard Games are written for Macs and they are a huge part in pc gaming,
and more and more activision and Ea games are being ported.
Actually, PC gaming remains the largest market - even with all consoles put together. It is responsible for ~40% of the 'gaming market' revenue.
I agree with you, and I feel the same way,
but Mac gaming will grow relative to windows gaming, as the mac market share continues to grow, and apple continues to be more aggressive about their GPUs in their computers.
you have to admit in the last 2 years Apple has been improving their GPUs and their software a little bit because of the pressure from valve
I am hoping Tim Cook will accept more PC gaming better
but I mean the reason this thread started is because UE3 is being developed for mac whicg is a good sign
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Is it really???
Okay, I stand corrected then,
source?
[url="http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/]
Of course - gaming companies are not too keen on admitting the above. They want people to move over to consoles, because it is far easier to control piracy there.
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I am not doubting but that graph looks sketchy, can you show me where it came from?
http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/
I'm open to other statistics mind you - but I've never actually seen any that say otherwise.
I dont doubt that stats to be true. Pretty much everyone has a computer. Not everyone has a console.
Well that's 'One' opinion of consoles, but I'm happily playing Gears Of War 3 and would not want to play it on a PC and mouse thanks. I've been gaming for many years, seen lots of changes. Consoles and PC's have alway's existed next to each other kinda.
But these day's most people own a console, not a games PC. So even looking at that graph you need to think of all consoles vs PC, not software sales but ownership numbers. People also have more then one console, I do. And I like many happily play COD online.
I think because console is a wider market, more people play online games. As in they find it easy to chuck a disk into a 360 and frag.
But Apple has NEVER been in my mind for games, it was the developers that pushed iOS for games, and if I recall Apple was not happy about the amount of games appearing! I hate them for it.
The hardware in the current machines is good enough to play games, it is not really '******', the CPU's are damn powerful top end models.
I have games I still play, but I want to play them in OSX rather then reboot into Windows.
The new Counter Strike should work on Mac's though.
When it comes to games, Apple is very much a 'do as we want', and 'not what you want' company. Funny considering Marathon....
That's an interesting article:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/
But what will happen is as people get fed up with the consoles power and ability, they will be 5 years older and will build or buy a PC. Then the next gen of consoles come out and they buy those possibly. And so consoles win again.
What is interesting is the fact the entire gaming market is now a more popular past time then television!
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How about bringing this topic back on track...
And realizing that just because you port the engine doesnt mean the developers will do any porting of any games you want.
I would love to eat my words, but until I see some first rate PC games ported to the Mac, I dont give a crap about this announcement.
We didnt get Fallout3...and Im still pissed.
PS: why do I prefer some games on the computer and not the TV...my desk vs my couch and how it works with controlling the game the most comfortable way for me. Thats it.
And realizing that just because you port the engine doesnt mean the developers will do any porting of any games you want.
I would love to eat my words, but until I see some first rate PC games ported to the Mac, I dont give a crap about this announcement.
We didnt get Fallout3...and Im still pissed.
PS: why do I prefer some games on the computer and not the TV...my desk vs my couch and how it works with controlling the game the most comfortable way for me. Thats it.
Happy Gears of War 3 day everyone!
CAN'T STOP THE (COLE) TRAIN, BABY!
See you online. LET'S DO THIS!
Hope it's not too late for Mass Effect 3 to get the treatment
That would be nice, as long as I don't have to go back and remake all my choices from the 60+ hours over Mass Effect 1 and 2. LOL!
Awesome, How about we get some real games on the Mac.
I want battlefield 3 and COD MW3 to run natively. Not interested in boot camp.
I want battlefield 3 and COD MW3 to run natively. Not interested in boot camp.
It's a complicated picture. On the negative side, macs have rubbish openGL support and the GPU's are yesterday's tech more or less. But on the plus side, yesterday's tech and inferior openGL drivers are more or less on a par with console capability, which is mostly the baseline for game development these days anyway because of sales volumes.
It's hard to see a time when Macs will ever compete with the open, free Market that the PC enjoys when it comes to GPU's though. PC's represent the cutting edge of what is available these days. Apple should throw the graphics options wide open and let Nvidia and AMD write their own drivers....after all they have a vested interest in producing the most effective graphic solutions and competition has worked for the PC.
It's hard to see a time when Macs will ever compete with the open, free Market that the PC enjoys when it comes to GPU's though. PC's represent the cutting edge of what is available these days. Apple should throw the graphics options wide open and let Nvidia and AMD write their own drivers....after all they have a vested interest in producing the most effective graphic solutions and competition has worked for the PC.
Start comparing iMacs to other all in ones, instead of 'desktops'. You're never going to get a desktop card in there with the current form factor. It's simply impossible. That being said, they put the very best card in that they could at the time. At least with the 27 inch. And how is the 6970m 'last gen'?!
The only benefit you're getting with Opengl 4 vs 3.2 is tessellation. I have yet to see any game on OSX even take advantage of 3.2.
Who is forcing Apple to use such a restricted form factor? Why can't Apple build a mini-tower with a quad/hex core i7, some PCIe slots, and a spare optical/HDD bay or three?
I just bought a Gateway DX4860 to build out as my new media center:
- $499 (no rebate, coupons, nothing - pay $499 plus sales tax and walk out the door)
- 6 GiB (one free DIMM slot, will bump to 8 GiB just because)
- 1.5 TB (for local cache, real video store is a 12 TiB hardware RAID-5 array on the server)
- quad core 2.8 GHz Core i5-2300 Sandy Bridge
- copper GbE
- free 5.25" bay
- free 3.5" bay
- 802.11 b/g/n in PCIe x1 slot
- HD2000 graphics with HDMI out with HDMI audio
- two free PCIe x1 slots
- one free PCIe x16 2.0 slot (have a fanless GT520 in case the HD 2000 can't do TrueHD - will return if the HD2000 is good for HDMI out)
- ten USB 2.0 ports (six back, four front)
- two 6 Gbps SATA ports
- four 3 Gbps SATA ports
- quiet. I mean really quiet. I mean really, really quiet. I mean that you have to check to see if the light is pulsing (sleep) or on (awake) - because you can't hear anything unless you put your ear near the back of the mini-tower.
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No one is forcing them. But what people should be asking IS for a mini tower.. Not simply saying 'why don't they put a desktop card in an iMac'. We know why they don't.
What you suggested makes perfect sense.
I loved the original Unreal Tournament on Mac, but all subsequent versions have kind of stunk in comparison.
Gone is strategy, its turned into fragfest and mayhem instead. :-(
early game was cool, fun and smart. happy Epic did this, but i wish the older more strategic version of game was still around. you know, where you don't die every minute and respawn.
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I agree with you, but the good news is a Mac Mini with some of the new PCI-E expansion modules via Thunderbolt, is almost like a mac tower with upgrades.
ie, you can add a graphics card and upgrade potentially when this tech comes out. should be here in months.
hopefully they come with some great options for that. so you can buy a mac mini with great processor and upgrade graphics via the external Thunderbolt expansion case.
Also, lots of ways to do more with your computer via thunderbolt. hope that some smaller less workstation and reasonably price solutions come. but this is a start.
http://magma.com/thunderbolt.asp
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/14/thunderbolt-accessories-at-idf-2011-belkins-express-dock-seaga/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...peripherals-cheaper-controllers-next-year.ars
That's it. The hardware is always a kick in the face. Bioware re-released Knights Of The Old Republic to the App store, a ten year old original xbox game, and my 3 year old iMac doesn't touch the system requirements.
Even the Sims 3 couldn't run on almost anything but the absolute latest Macs when released. It's great these things can be ported, but even some of the more current hardware still can't run a lot of games or run them well.
I wouldn't even mind, but Apple will tell people on the product descriptions they can play games. People who haven't a clue think "any mac game" and it's a huge lie.
Porting a game is half the problem. With a little love in the code, there would be less limitations but that costs money, and software developers aren't very willing to invest the money.
PS. Bioware... suck my butt for no Mac support for KOTORO, speaking the game. Thank god for boot camp
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Compared to what exactly? Low end/mid range pc's? Putting a better graphics set in than a previous generation doesn't mean it's a great one. Unless you are paying for the upgrade and buying a higher end model, the graphics will just barely do. It's about the one true argument windows fan boys really have rights to victor in.
By all means, look at the system requirements for any random 10 graphic intensive games that are current, and then see how many generations of macbooks and iMacs can actually run them... and if they can, how many can run them with a good frame rate and with all the effects active.
There is always an option to upgrade the graphics slightly.... but the fact is, that pinch upgrade should have been the default.
Really, google graphics cards, prices, and pc configurations and sys req. for mac games. You'll find a reason to rant.
All in ones arent meant for games, thats why they have crap mobile GPUs. If you want to play "extreme" games, you need a proper desktop GPU. Unfortunately apple sees fit not to give its customers that option so thats why gaming will always suck on a mac.
Just go to Apple's online store. The best card you can get is the 5870. Released in 2009. Apple's price for a 2 (nearly 3 now) year old video card is $449.99.
And thats the BEST you can get. Forget about the AMD 6990, thats NEVER going to come to a mac. By the time a 6000 series AMD is available, PC users will be getting 7000 series and even those will cost less than the best that apple has to offer.
Apple is notorious for being a JOKE when it comes to gaming. A complete joke. Ive got a macbook pro with the 6750 and a mac pro with two 3870s. Neither of my systems EVER get used for gaming in Mac OS X, I only use Windows for that.
Anyone that is a mac user should be giving a gigantic one finger salute to apple for dicking around with its customers in the graphics card department. Not even their drivers are written properly (my both my 2011 and former 2010 macbook pros had issues connecting to my LCD monitor while all other macs had NO issues what so ever, click here to see: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1203042/
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The only other apple product that can be used for gaming is the Mac Pro, but the starting price of that system is ridiculously high, and for a simple desktop to do basic computer work WITH gaming is not a feasible option.
The 6970M isnt last gen, but all the options on the Mac Pro *are*.
Apple is so damn flawed in this department. Its gotten so bad that ive really quit gaming in general. I would more often if I had the means but apple doesnt make it a possibility. I'm a casual gamer, but also a graphic designer that WOULD benefit from a better graphics card when producing work.
Its a slap to the face of the apple consumer. For a company that (at least used to) boast about its 'media capabilities' is a flat out lie.
Note 1: Some UE3 games run fine in WineSkin (Google it if you don't know it, it's really freaking cool) without much configuration.
Note 2: I have to at least partially agree with the "Good luck playing the games" argument. The drivers are really not that great, especially on Lion.
Note 3: What's wrong with Boot Camp(ing)? Besides the fact that it's kind of inconvenient (and Windows).
Note 4: What do you guys think about UE 3.5 coming out soon.
Note 5: Personally, my NVIDEA 330M is good enough for me to play most games. (I'm playing the COD:BO campaign in WineSkin w/ 30FPS for example.) I certainly would love a reasonably-priced discrete 5xx, but hey. It's an Apple.
Note 2: I have to at least partially agree with the "Good luck playing the games" argument. The drivers are really not that great, especially on Lion.
Note 3: What's wrong with Boot Camp(ing)? Besides the fact that it's kind of inconvenient (and Windows).
Note 4: What do you guys think about UE 3.5 coming out soon.
Note 5: Personally, my NVIDEA 330M is good enough for me to play most games. (I'm playing the COD:BO campaign in WineSkin w/ 30FPS for example.) I certainly would love a reasonably-priced discrete 5xx, but hey. It's an Apple.