Upcoming EU Sideloading Bill Would 'Cripple the Privacy and Security Protections' iPhone Users Expect, Says Apple

[MacFarmer]

This is absolute BS. In my opinion EU is on the wrong side here. But it is all about the money. They see super successful US company and they are jealous of the money they get. Instead of thinking how to punish them, they should be thinking on how to create a local 'Apple'. But this is politics..

Apple should stick it to them. They should offer this "open/sideloding" option only on iPhone SE, and only on previous generation. If you want side loading - get old phone. Or even better. Offer a new line line of iPhones, a "clean" iPhone. The iPhone without the appstore, or only with apple inhouse application. Like the fist gen phone. I would love to buy one, without all this crap. I've been using iphone since they were introduced, spend thousands on apps and games, but I've noticed that now I only need it for phone, email and web. I don't give a damn about all this subscription nonsense. Never had one, never will. Anyway, this will be bad for Apple stock. I was just glad I had an option all these years to have a secure, no nonsense, no virus, malware (like android) phone. iPod came and went, iPhone will too.

ps: to all the hopeful developers, that think they will get more cash because of new payment - ╭∩╮. If they open the ios, it will be the last day I will pay for any app. cracked apps app the way. I hope they what they want, and by that I mean they have less income because of that

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I'm not. Who the *** is the EU to force Apple to do anything? Let alone something as ridiculous as this.

If you want to operate a business in a jurisdiction, then you have to play by their rules. Don't like it, leave.

 

[Wildkraut]

I again hope Apple listen to the wisdom offered on Macrumors comment, pull out of the EU market.

Yep me too, finally more competition.

Bye bye I won't cry, but they probably would.
iOS (EU) Version will be the best iOS version ever made, looking forward to it.
Anyway they won't pull out the EU market, greed comes first.

 

[BvizioN]

Apple should give its customers more credit. Nobody is forcing anyone to sideload. I sure as hell won't, except for maybe a couple of video game system emulators.

If you are in this forum, chances are you know darn well what is good and what is not in your phone. What people (including you) seem to forget is that very likely 99.99% of iPhone users don't even know what side-loading means or the possible consequences of doing such thing. However I agree that Apple should just allow it and let the customers head to EU bureaucrats for supports when they **** up their devices.

 

[Treq]

You want to know something interesting? EU have very strong User privacy laws, and is implementing similar legal restrictions in tandem with this legislation inspired from apple's implementation. so this is a non issue for EU at least.

And currently the Appstore policy is self reporting regarding the privacy implementation.

Why so dishonest?

1)Do you want to be able to only download apps only from the App Store as the only secure source but limited functionality? With your privacy protected by EU law

OR

2) Do you want to be able to download apps from the official App Store and have the ability to choose to install apps from other, less secure sources but more functionality? With your privacy protected by EU law.

First, my privacy isn’t protected by eu law. Second, your second choice is a false one. If sites like FB are forced by Apple to disclose the practices they don’t want to disclose on apple‘s store, they will just pull their app and offer it on their own site and then starts the eventual decline of apple‘s secure App Store. A store where I know what the app is doing on my phone and who wrote it. A store where to be on it you need to follow certain protocols. if developers want to save money, just don’t want to cut Apple in, or just don’t want to follow proper protocols, they will flee the store and I will have to go to some shady site to find an app I need... and then it‘s like having an android. A nightmare hellscape where privacy is all but a forgotten dream of a madman. I’ve Jailbroken my iphone before back in the day. it was kinda neat for 5min, but was super sketchy, and things never worked all that smooth. Not the kind of experience I want these days in the world of diminishing privacy. I mentioned a solution earlier. Apple could simply offer those who want to jailbreak their phones or “side load“ apps, a different model like the se leaving the rest of the lineup secure. You make a choice when you purchase the phone.

 

[RichOldMan]

just make 2 versions of ios, one for us normal people who don't want sideloading and one for the idiots that do , there fixed it lol

 

[ct2k7]

I simply mean that not every dev uses a well known payment processor like Apple Pay or PayPal etc, some use processors I have never heard of and that is not encouraging. Take an app like Carbon Copy Cloner, they offer "secure ordering by FastSpring" well who the hell is FastSpring? If they were in the MAS I would be able to pay via Apple's service which I trust far more than a company I never heard of.

All payment processors go through vigorous checks. And claiming back money and freezing cards are very easy nowadays. There are a lot out there, and I personally don’t actually care to look to figure out who handles my car details. I make a decision on how trustworthy the process seems.

It might be reassuring to you, but as a developer and business, I’d rather use what makes sense from a business standpoint.

 

[ct2k7]

False equivalence. One of the major problems with side loading on iOS is concern over apps misbehaving with regards to privacy in the realm of location tracking data, geo tracking, wi-fi tracking, microphone and camera eavesdropping, text messaging and email theft. While it is certainly true that macOS faces some of these concerns, it pales in comparison to the exposure a (compromised) cell phone provides.

But But Android... yes, you can side load Android. And it comes with all of those privacy risks every time you do it.

Stop comparing iOS to macOS when it comes to side loading. The exposures simply are not the same.

Very false equivalence on your part then.

I hope you can understand that permissioning isn’t tied to the App Store on iOS.

Have you noticed that you don’t accept application’s permissions before installing them?

The arguments in this thread generally rely on somehow acquiring software from another source means that the software isn’t bound to use the frameworks and APIs the OS has, which is frankly absurd and abject nonsense.

 

[EddieKeyton1]

I think what most people are missing is the long term threat to security and privacy. If just 1 application creator decides to only offer their app via sideloading it isn't a big deal. But over time, most major apps will decide to just offer the sideload link on their website, and it will become the common way for people to load apps on their phones. None of those apps will go through the reviews the app store requires.

Sideloaded apps will be able to use any and all APIs (public and private) iOS has, without restriction, because of how Objective-C works. They'll be able to get the MAC address of the wifi adapter or the serial# of the device to make their fingerprinting perfect.

Additionally, apps will be able to use any and all exploits in iOS to get more privileges on the device and escape the sandbox, and Apple will be able to do nothing about it (since they will no longer have the thread of pulling the developer's apps from the app store). Right now most exploits are of the type that require clicking a link (or receiving a text message), but there are a lot more vulnerabilities in iOS if you already have an app on the phone and you don't care about being "banned from the app store."

That’s not how it works. It will still be available on the App Store. Most developers will still mainly use the store. Take a look at android. There isn’t a lack of apps to download there? Developers aren’t stupid. They would be losing out on a huge user base by only offering the download “on their website”. So only download apps from apples store if you’re worried about it, I guarantee that your favorite app(s) will still be available without sideloading.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Why would they? Those devices aren't general purpose computers, they're game consoles.

Except they aren't. That argument died the instant Netflix showed up on a 360. The instant Sony allowed Linux to be installed on a PS3 - which there was a class-action lawsuit for when they took the ability away. Microsoft's entire video game business exists because of the threat they saw to desktop computing with the Playstation.

 

[norwaypianoman]

Would one be able to Opt-Out of sideloading ?

Blocking my phone from future sideloading ?

Never would I want sideloading on my iPhone. It is the whole point of the iPhone: Security, Efficiancy and Controlled Quality.

 

[Wildkraut]

Except they aren't. That argument died the instant Netflix showed up on a 360. The instant Sony allowed Linux to be installed on a PS3 - which there was a class-action lawsuit for when they took the ability away. Microsoft's entire video game business exists because of the threat they saw to desktop computing with the Playstation.

Nope, many things you can't do without a smartphone anymore, the world is turning paperless, we will even end without notes and coins one day.

The smartphone became a general "must have" purpose device in western countries and is weighted differently.
E.g. mandatory Vaccination Apps to enter locations, Online Banking, soon replace the driver License card and serve as a Healthcare Insurance proofing device, and more to come, etc., and Apple is getting deeper into all this, they will have to follow the rules if they want to stay.

A console serves mainly the gaming aspect, with a bit of other entertainment purposes, while a smartphone took over many areas of life.

Apple got into a business area which is set to be open for any kind of competition.
If they don't like it, they still can rollback and/or leave the smartphone market.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Nope, many things you can't do without a smartphone anymore, the world is turning paperless, we will even end without notes and coins one day.

The smartphone became a general "must have" purpose device in western countries and is weighted differently.
E.g. Vaccination Apps, Online Banking, soon Driver license and healthcare insurance proofing device, and more to come, etc. and Apple is getting deeper into all this, they will have to follow the rules or pay fines.

A console serves mainly the gaming aspect, with a bit of other entertainment purposes, while a smartphone took over many areas of life.

Except everything you can do on a smartphone, I can do on an Xbox. We can thank Google's Chromebook line for that and the fact as I, too, have a fully provisioned Chromium-based web browser.

It's a general purpose computer, and has been for decades now. If that is how we're going to loosely define it.

I mean, carrying a digital vaccine card, or drivers license, or healthcare card -- I guess even a computer isn't a computer anymore, and at the very least, a Chromebook isn't a computer. Those are abstracts from what the definition actually is. Though, each exists on the web too.......

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Apple should give its customers more credit. Nobody is forcing anyone to sideload. I sure as hell won't, except for maybe a couple of video game system emulators.

Sideloading is difficult and super rare right now. If Apple really gets forced to allow it, wait till half the developers only allow installation by sideloading.

 

[Wildkraut]

Except everything you can do on a smartphone, I can do on an Xbox. We can thank Google's Chromebook line for that and the fact as I, too, have a fully provisioned Chromium-based web browser.

It's a general purpose computer, and has been for decades now. If that is how we're going to loosely define it.

I mean, carrying a digital vaccine card, or drivers license, or healthcare card -- I guess even a computer isn't a computer anymore, and at the very least, a Chromebook isn't a computer. Those are abstracts from what the definition actually is. Though, each exists on the web too.......

ROFL, i would like to see ya with your Xbox and a 65" TV and a Diesel generator in front of a restaurant tying to get inside by showing your vaccination status. I would even pay to watch this happening.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Except everything you can do on a smartphone, I can do on an Xbox.

I don't get it, do you carry your Xbox with you everywhere?

 

[sudo-sandwich]

ROFL, i would like to see ya with your Xbox and a 65" TV and a Diesel generator in front of a restaurant tying to get inside by showing your vaccination status. I would even pay to watch this happening.

Well it's called pulling out my vaccination card from my wallet.
Edit: Or just not proving my vaccination status cause nobody cares anymore.

 

[Wildkraut]

I don't get it, do you carry your Xbox with you everywhere?

I just found him going to Walmart, but this day he took the PC with him.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

If you want to operate a business in a jurisdiction, then you have to play by their rules. Don't like it, leave.

Sounds good to me.

 

[JustSomebody12]

Couldn't they make it harder than average BUT STILL POSSIBLE to sideload?

Like downloading an auxiliary profile like you do to install the betas.

 

[Matti_]

And I suppose you couldn’t have purchased a different phone as you were forced to buy an iPhone?

Most likely: no. There is only Android and iOS.
And seeing the aspect of hardware, the ipad is the only Tablet on the market that is really useful. But that doesnt meant that Apple is allowed to have complete control about the software

 

[Sophisticatednut]

First, my privacy isn’t protected by eu law. Second, your second choice is a false one. If sites like FB are forced by Apple to disclose the practices they don’t want to disclose on apple‘s store, they will just pull their app and offer it on their own site and then starts the eventual decline of apple‘s secure App Store. A store where I know what the app is doing on my phone and who wrote it. A store where to be on it you need to follow certain protocols. if developers want to save money, just don’t want to cut Apple in, or just don’t want to follow proper protocols, they will flee the store and I will have to go to some shady site to find an app I need... and then it‘s like having an android. A nightmare hellscape where privacy is all but a forgotten dream of a madman. I’ve Jailbroken my iphone before back in the day. it was kinda neat for 5min, but was super sketchy, and things never worked all that smooth. Not the kind of experience I want these days in the world of diminishing privacy. I mentioned a solution earlier. Apple could simply offer those who want to jailbreak their phones or “side load“ apps, a different model like the se leaving the rest of the lineup secure.

that's a shame, perhaps you should legislate your politicians to implement privacy laws.

And not at all, the choice is not a false one. iOS tracking security is a sandbox feature that apps must be granted permission to use this information. Facebook can still be used in safari, and is just as safe; but apple can always implement better privacy features in the OS.

Considering 99.4% of android users still download only from the Play store with the same cut, it would be safe to assume your apps will still be in the store by necessity.

The only reason developers would mass flee the store is only if the iOS App Store is so horrible and not good at all. Just like how Mac developers flee from the Mac Appstore or refuse to use it, perhaps it's time for apple to improve the appstore then?

You make a choice when you purchase the phone.

it's a false choice, I would be surprised if the majority of users purchase it for the explicit reason of the locked down App Store. I would bet people purchase iPhones for the UX, ecosystem, security, iMessage, great hardware, camera, easy to use interface, airplay, integration with Mac and Apple Watch and headsets etc etc

Unless you have a poll showing otherwise

 

[BuffaloTF]

ROFL, i would like to see ya with your Xbox and a 65" TV and a Diesel generator in front of a restaurant tying to get inside by showing your vaccination status. I would even pay to watch this happening.

Or, I could just carry the card itself... which is what I'll need to start doing anyway since NY isn't extending the "standard" Excelsior Pass and I have 2 children under 11 that don't qualify for the booster yet... so no non-expiring Excelsior Pass Plus for them.

 

[BuffaloTF]

I don't get it, do you carry your Xbox with you everywhere?

Do you carry your computer with you everywhere? Or can we eliminate actual computers from "general purpose computing" now?

Mobility was never, and is still not, part of the definition. It's a vague definition -- a device which is capable of carrying out many different computing tasks. Which it does.............

 

[nealh]

I would personally like to see this not happening. I didn't pay for such an expensive device so that I can have an open system. I still use android devices but that's when I want to experiment with things and don't care about the device. My personal information is in these iDevices and I'd prefer them to be locked down secure. I don't trust any android device period. hence not having personal information stored on my android devices!

How would this affect if you ... if you chose to not sideload your setup is still closed.
Choice is nice. I have jailbroken my iPhones for 10yrs plus never once a malware issue but I like my customizations that Apple refuses to allow.