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UPDATE - Apple plays fair now / Discriminatory Service Policies
- Thread starter kshitijshah
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Have you seen the service page? - Apple explicitly list out of warranty battery service separately without a price but in practise out of warranty service for an Apple Watch in India means entire unit replacement at a price which is nearly 80% the cost of buying a new watch.
https://support.apple.com/en-in/watch/repair/service
The grey area that Apple gets away with is Apple Authorised service centres are entitled to have their own pricing. What Apple won't tell you is that Apple doesn't authorize any service centre to only replace batteries. Hence, they must send the units to Apple for a full replacement
Email Tim Cook at tcook@apple.com about it.
I think more of us in markets where Apple couldn't care less because we're not China should speak up. Apple is not only charging us more premium their own MSRP, we get less features and services.
I think more of us in markets where Apple couldn't care less because we're not China should speak up. Apple is not only charging us more premium their own MSRP, we get less features and services.
Don't agree, Apple provides better service in Australia than US because consumer rights in Australia are MUCH better.
Maybe south east asia should get better consumer rights from their Governments and enact laws that do so.
I agree and disagree. I agree that our government can do a better job in protecting consumers. At the same time, it shouldn't give big businesses a free pass to abuse their position, especially Apple who always brag about their "superior" customer service.
It is superior to other Big Tech companies tho. Better than MS, Google, Samsung, Dell, and HP.
It poorer countries where Apple services are lacking its bad.
But in US, Europe, rich countries in Asia and Oceania it's better than the rest of Big Tech
Even in developing countries, their service isn't bad compared to other tech companies. My father in law who is in his late 70s, regularly calls up Apple support for help with his Mac, Phone, etc and at times they spend hours with him helping him on issues either me or my husband can't. None of the other competitors would spend this time.
I understand for OP how frustrating it is not being able to get the same level of service. But as many have said here, it's not discrimination, this is more about how business is done in India. The government doesn't seem to care about consumer issues. And don't have rules in place to point firms to that direction.
Not all in Europe either. Not a single apple store where i live, there wasnt applecare plans for iphones or watches while ago - if you broke it, you paid it (instead of we will replaced it for you (in usa)). Still no homepod, no siri for atv for example…
The underlying theme of this thread is Apple seems to provide the service required as dictated by territorial law. Which in EU, UK and Australia is world class, in North America is still pretty good, but in some markets like OP's native India is basically a bit of a sh#t-show. What Apple could do is set the standard for others to follow by raising their bar to be at least North America standard worldwide, irrespective of territorial law.
That will happen at some point. The Internet has made the world a smaller place. People in lands where they feel they are being sh#t on compared to other territories are now way more aware of what's going on in the world than they were 30 years ago. Not just with regards to consumer rights, but literally everything.
That will happen at some point. The Internet has made the world a smaller place. People in lands where they feel they are being sh#t on compared to other territories are now way more aware of what's going on in the world than they were 30 years ago. Not just with regards to consumer rights, but literally everything.
Expectations and familiarity. For example an European customer may expect different level of service from a company and product compared to one from US. This is evident with warranties and recycling.
Maybe the OP is an Indian and relocated to another country where their were used to a particular service and warranty from Apple but returned to India and it’s not quite the same. Whatever the situation is Apple is partially at fault as it takes great trouble to advertise said products but does not disclose what is and is not covered at the point of sale.
When was the last time you purchased an Apple product and the employee(s) assisting you mentioned everything you need to know, most of the time I receive a generic response such as it’s available on Apple’s website or call Apple CS. Most people don’t even look at near end of life for most purchases. Have you looked into what happens to an electric vehicle’s battery after the 8 year warranty is done, recycle you say, yeah that is a vague promise. Most cities and companies don’t have a proper recycling system in place but hey you are one of the few who asks all these questions.
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Do you understand the definition of discrimination which is not to be confused with racial, sexual, etc discrimination?
discrimination
dĭ-skrĭm″ə-nā′shən
noun
- Treatment or consideration based on class or category, such as race or gender, rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice.
And you realize that this effect all customers in India correct which differs from Apple’s policy related to this particular issue in other countries.
Exactly, That's the whole point. Just because the laws aren't stringent enough Apple can get away with not providing replacements for basic consumables at a fair cost. How about doing what is right and offering a chance for customers to extend the life of their devices as they do in other markets. Great companies are built on experiences customers have. Sadly even the official Apple customer support doesn't have answers. They just obfuscate with "local conditions" to all queries.
Rightly said. This is a class of customers against which Apple has differential policies.
Yes. But discrimination isn't what's happening. Even though I agree with OP that the pricing is bananas, he has chosen to ignore anything anyone has said regarding the matter and continues to believe Apple has some imagined vendetta against the country of India. If he wants to believe that, then fine.
Never mentioned it as 'vendetta' - Just saying Apple knowingly chooses to not to scale up their service levels in India for basic service options which most of the world gets access to despite selling the product for nearly 5 years now. Keeping the wilful poor service level is discrimination against Indian customers as a whole.
Apple could certainly do better, but they can't be totally blamed. Governmental policies in India have generally been hostile, for right or wrong. The issue is much more complex than just supplying the parts for the battery replacement. Extracts below from an article about smart phone production in India, Because of the local production requirements maybe they would be required to replace using a locally produced battery, which doesn't exist. You might import a battery but there might be tariffs or quotas. A whole watch replacement is just simpler. Clearly speculative. We don't don't know the reasoning behind the complete replacement policy.
That doesn't mean that people shouldn't be pushing Apple and the Government to change things. Personally I'd point my finger at the governement if the information we get here is correct.
www.theinformation.com
"The biggest challenge for Apple may simply be the less developed nature of manufacturing in India compared to China. This situation is a legacy of protectionist trade policies and bureaucratic interference. Many smartphone component factories in India, for example, are still operated by Asian or European companies that have long-standing relationships with well-known consumer brands and years—if not decades—of manufacturing experience
...
Until last year, Apple had been unable to operate its own online store or Apple Store in India because of a local law requiring foreign single-brand retailers to spend the equivalent of at least 30% of their India sales on local materials, which was impossible given the lack of suppliers. Apple also wasn’t allowed to sell refurbished models, which it could have sold to Indian consumers at lower prices than for new ones.
...
India places a 20% tax on imported smartphones,
...
But the fact that Apple has to import all the components offsets those savings. Customs duties, and the cost of shipping and storing iPhone components from China, together add about 10% to the iPhone’s manufacturing costs in the country, people familiar with the matter say.
Even the labor savings aren’t as great as they could be. Indian labor laws prevent workers from working as much overtime as Chinese workers, meaning manufacturers must hire more Indian workers for the same amount of work. Trade unions in India also operate more freely than in China, which can add to costs, a person close to Apple said.
...
One major issue was compliance with Apple’s supplier standards for health, safety and the environment, which are among the toughest in the consumer electronics business. Many Indian companies were unable to or unwilling to fix problems Apple’s auditors uncovered, according to people familiar with the matter.
...
But in 2014, Nokia abandoned the country after a tax dispute with the Indian government
...
Apple also has struggled to convince existing suppliers to produce in India. In 2017, Apple employees approached European manufacturer AT&S—which makes printed circuit boards for Apple in China—about making them in India, according to people familiar with the matter. AT&S executives determined that Apple’s business in India would be incremental and wasn’t worth the investment in a new factory,
...
Taiwan’s Inventec, a major assembler of AirPods and EarPods,reportedly got into a dispute with local government officials over taxes and halted operations in the country. Other Apple suppliers such as Jabil and Wintek left India after the Nokia fiasco. Apple also has been in the crosshairs of Indian government agencies: It is involved in ongoing disputes over unpaid taxes, employment benefits and customs duties with several agencies, according to local corporate filings.
...
Several years ago, the Indian government added tariffs for PCB-As, printed circuit boards with chips already installed on them.
...
The Indian government is planning to raise tariffs on PCB-As again.
...
With this kind of environment I'm not surprised that one doesn't get stellar service.
That doesn't mean that people shouldn't be pushing Apple and the Government to change things. Personally I'd point my finger at the governement if the information we get here is correct.
Inside Apple’s Search for an Indian Supply Chain
Several years ago, employees at Apple investigated whether components for the iPhone could be made in India. The results weren’t encouraging.While the employees found some companies that could make power adapters or packaging, none could make phone speakers, headphones or small mechanical parts. ...
www.theinformation.com
"The biggest challenge for Apple may simply be the less developed nature of manufacturing in India compared to China. This situation is a legacy of protectionist trade policies and bureaucratic interference. Many smartphone component factories in India, for example, are still operated by Asian or European companies that have long-standing relationships with well-known consumer brands and years—if not decades—of manufacturing experience
...
Until last year, Apple had been unable to operate its own online store or Apple Store in India because of a local law requiring foreign single-brand retailers to spend the equivalent of at least 30% of their India sales on local materials, which was impossible given the lack of suppliers. Apple also wasn’t allowed to sell refurbished models, which it could have sold to Indian consumers at lower prices than for new ones.
...
India places a 20% tax on imported smartphones,
...
But the fact that Apple has to import all the components offsets those savings. Customs duties, and the cost of shipping and storing iPhone components from China, together add about 10% to the iPhone’s manufacturing costs in the country, people familiar with the matter say.
Even the labor savings aren’t as great as they could be. Indian labor laws prevent workers from working as much overtime as Chinese workers, meaning manufacturers must hire more Indian workers for the same amount of work. Trade unions in India also operate more freely than in China, which can add to costs, a person close to Apple said.
...
One major issue was compliance with Apple’s supplier standards for health, safety and the environment, which are among the toughest in the consumer electronics business. Many Indian companies were unable to or unwilling to fix problems Apple’s auditors uncovered, according to people familiar with the matter.
...
But in 2014, Nokia abandoned the country after a tax dispute with the Indian government
...
Apple also has struggled to convince existing suppliers to produce in India. In 2017, Apple employees approached European manufacturer AT&S—which makes printed circuit boards for Apple in China—about making them in India, according to people familiar with the matter. AT&S executives determined that Apple’s business in India would be incremental and wasn’t worth the investment in a new factory,
...
Taiwan’s Inventec, a major assembler of AirPods and EarPods,reportedly got into a dispute with local government officials over taxes and halted operations in the country. Other Apple suppliers such as Jabil and Wintek left India after the Nokia fiasco. Apple also has been in the crosshairs of Indian government agencies: It is involved in ongoing disputes over unpaid taxes, employment benefits and customs duties with several agencies, according to local corporate filings.
...
Several years ago, the Indian government added tariffs for PCB-As, printed circuit boards with chips already installed on them.
...
The Indian government is planning to raise tariffs on PCB-As again.
...
With this kind of environment I'm not surprised that one doesn't get stellar service.
While the environment may not be ideal or as per Apple's wants and desires if anyone can navigate around it it is multi-billion dollar companies such as Apple.Apple could certainly do better, but they can't be totally blamed. Governmental policies in India have generally been hostile, for right or wrong. The issue is much more complex than just supplying the parts for the battery replacement. Extracts below from an article about smart phone production in India, Because of the local production requirements maybe they would be required to replace using a locally produced battery, which doesn't exist. You might import a battery but there might be tariffs or quotas. A whole watch replacement is just simpler. Clearly speculative. We don't don't know the reasoning behind the complete replacement policy.
That doesn't mean that people shouldn't be pushing Apple and the Government to change things. Personally I'd point my finger at the governement if the information we get here is correct.
Inside Apple’s Search for an Indian Supply Chain
Several years ago, employees at Apple investigated whether components for the iPhone could be made in India. The results weren’t encouraging.While the employees found some companies that could make power adapters or packaging, none could make phone speakers, headphones or small mechanical parts. ...
"The biggest challenge for Apple may simply be the less developed nature of manufacturing in India compared to China. This situation is a legacy of protectionist trade policies and bureaucratic interference. Many smartphone component factories in India, for example, are still operated by Asian or European companies that have long-standing relationships with well-known consumer brands and years—if not decades—of manufacturing experience
...
Until last year, Apple had been unable to operate its own online store or Apple Store in India because of a local law requiring foreign single-brand retailers to spend the equivalent of at least 30% of their India sales on local materials, which was impossible given the lack of suppliers. Apple also wasn’t allowed to sell refurbished models, which it could have sold to Indian consumers at lower prices than for new ones.
...
India places a 20% tax on imported smartphones,
...
But the fact that Apple has to import all the components offsets those savings. Customs duties, and the cost of shipping and storing iPhone components from China, together add about 10% to the iPhone’s manufacturing costs in the country, people familiar with the matter say.
Even the labor savings aren’t as great as they could be. Indian labor laws prevent workers from working as much overtime as Chinese workers, meaning manufacturers must hire more Indian workers for the same amount of work. Trade unions in India also operate more freely than in China, which can add to costs, a person close to Apple said.
...
One major issue was compliance with Apple’s supplier standards for health, safety and the environment, which are among the toughest in the consumer electronics business. Many Indian companies were unable to or unwilling to fix problems Apple’s auditors uncovered, according to people familiar with the matter.
...
But in 2014, Nokia abandoned the country after a tax dispute with the Indian government
...
Apple also has struggled to convince existing suppliers to produce in India. In 2017, Apple employees approached European manufacturer AT&S—which makes printed circuit boards for Apple in China—about making them in India, according to people familiar with the matter. AT&S executives determined that Apple’s business in India would be incremental and wasn’t worth the investment in a new factory,
...
Taiwan’s Inventec, a major assembler of AirPods and EarPods,reportedly got into a dispute with local government officials over taxes and halted operations in the country. Other Apple suppliers such as Jabil and Wintek left India after the Nokia fiasco. Apple also has been in the crosshairs of Indian government agencies: It is involved in ongoing disputes over unpaid taxes, employment benefits and customs duties with several agencies, according to local corporate filings.
...
Several years ago, the Indian government added tariffs for PCB-As, printed circuit boards with chips already installed on them.
...
The Indian government is planning to raise tariffs on PCB-As again.
...
With this kind of environment I'm not surprised that one doesn't get stellar service.
If they can navigate and find ways to sell their products surely they can navigate around for servicing the same products.
But India is the second biggest populous country in the world. If Apple offered the same level of pricing/services in India as elsewhere in the world, and Indians took up their products/services at the same rate as in other countries, but it cost Apple more to offer those things in India than in other countries, that might be more cost than even Apple could take on. If India was a smaller country, Apple might be able to operate in India at a smaller margin than in other countries and absorb the difference, but India is so big, doing that could seriously affect Apple's bottom line, especially if that went on for years.
It’s the
It’s the other way round. The more the sheer volume by sheer numbers the lesser the marginal cost of servicing. Look up - operating leverage
It’s the other way round. The more the sheer volume by sheer numbers the lesser the marginal cost of servicing. Look up - operating leverage
“While the environment may not be ideal” is a very very big understatement.
Apple is not a charity, it’s a business. The government chooses not to make India a business friendly, or in fact consumer friendly environment. while I sympathise with you, I also have to say you make it sound as if this is 100% Apples fault. It may be partly but it’s mostly the cost and hassle of doing business in India. We cannot ignore this.
Looking at an Apple Watch Battery thread it looks to me as if they don't replace the battery in a watch, they supply you with a completely refurbished watch. If this is their general watch repair policy, and you add in the governmental issues which means that this refurbished watch might have to be imported, then you are asking for the impossible. Dunno what this means for individual repair centers.
It's time to move on. Nothing said here will change anything. Change has to occur at your local level. There are other things which are worthier of your time investment.
It's time to move on. Nothing said here will change anything. Change has to occur at your local level. There are other things which are worthier of your time investment.
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