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Upgrade G4 Cube
- Thread starter Wouter3
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Actually that's a 7455 which runs even hotter than the 7447 on the 1.8GHz upgrade. Do you still have the old upgrade you bought? You have the custom VRM, you can just use that then.And what about this one:
Sonnet Encore ST G4 1400/2M Upgrade CPU for Apple Power Mac AGP Quicksilver Cube | eBay
Sonnet Encore ST G4 1400/2M Upgrade CPU for Apple Power Mac AGP Quicksilver Cube | Computers/Tablets & Networking, Vintage Computing, Vintage Computers & Mainframes | eBay!www.ebay.nl
The vendor claims it fits the Cube heatsink and it is 1.4 Ghz and runs probably not as hot as the 1.8.
I also found this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/293383643939
which is a 1.4 GHz Powerlogic. Would this be a good solution?
When my VRM blew up, it took the motherboard, processor board and graphics card with it. I have installed a new motherboard, a new graphics card, a new VRM and the old 450 MHz CPU board. I have first tested the new motherboard and graphics card with the Sonnet 1 GHz board. I made noice as if it wanted to start up, but the screen stayed black. The bootrom verion is 4.1.9 so that cannot be an issue.
I then installed the old 450 MHz processor and it works now OK.
Oops! I didn't know this 1.8 beeing 47a. But yes, as it only has 512k of cache, this seems to be the case. But sadly it doesn't have the switches to adjust the clockspeed, the PowerLogix and NewerTech cards use to have. So downclocking will likely involve soldering if is possible at all.
I still think the best way to go will be to wait for some PL-upgrade to appear on ebay or elsewhere. Best the 1.5 single. Tower version is ok. But prepare to craft your custom heat plate, as they are attached by screws instead of the clamp.
And yes, these mainboards can be tricky! The one in my second cube from some point refused to show a picture with anything else but the GeForce 2 MX. So trying some more different graphix cards may lead to success.
The 7455 can barely handle anything above 1.5 GHz so I'm sure that Sonnet 1.8GHz upgrade is a 7447 of some kind. The 7455 also has only 256k of L2 cache but it also has either 1MB or 2MB of L3 cache while the 744x CPUs don't even have enough pins for L3 cache. 7448 has 1MB of L2 cache so it would be perfect but unfortunately those are really hard to find.
I admit to not having pushed it too far, but for the sake of stability and temperatures, ~1.4ghz seems to be a nice, comfortable top end for 7455s. Apple of course managed a nice, reliable 1.42ghz in the MDD, but that was with a MUCH better thermal design than either the Cube or the Quicksilver, and nice beefy copper heatsink, and chips actually rated at that from the factory.
I think I've heard of going over 1.5ghz before-in fact if I'm not mistaken a Giga I now have that belonged to @LightBulbFun has been pushed pretty far, but it also required upping the voltage a pretty significant amount. I have it back down to something more reasonable now(I don't remember what
-it's in a Sawtooth along with a Radeon 9800 that I really should use more).
I think I've heard of going over 1.5ghz before-in fact if I'm not mistaken a Giga I now have that belonged to @LightBulbFun has been pushed pretty far, but it also required upping the voltage a pretty significant amount. I have it back down to something more reasonable now(I don't remember what
-it's in a Sawtooth along with a Radeon 9800 that I really should use more).How to connect an Apple ADC screen? Do you have a DVI to ADC adapter and where to get these?Okay, PC-Card too!
...but the without any doubt best and strongest GPU, which can safely be used in a Cube for everyday use inside the stock plexiglas case and without any power issues, is available on ebay again!
This one is not Club 3D, but has the exact same board layout and (most important) the 400Mhz ram, making it overclockable up to 430/450Mhz. Anybody looking for the vidcard for his Cube, get this card!
Yes, i have a DVI to ADC solution: Dr. Bott DVIator. Thre's one of Apple too. But they are relatively hard to find and, as they need an additional (in case of the DVIator full size) power supply, tend to be expensive too. So, if you plan to use an ADC-display as your all time Cube display it would likely be better to use an Apple videocard which supports it. If you want a bit better than the Rage, Radeon 7500 or GF 2MX could be good choices. But both of them do not support CoreImage.
I wonder if the Radeon 9600 for a G5 could fit and work in a Cube? It has an ADC connector and pins for power that can be wired easily.
To be honest, I've never seen a Dr. Bott adapter for sale-they seem a lot harder to find than the Apple one. I'd like to try one as they supposedly will work with the ADC CRT, something the Apple one won't do.
The Apple adapter is relatively easy to find, and these days doesn't sell for a ton of money-often $30 or so. It doesn't need a separate PSU-the whole thing itself looks like an oversized laptop charger. It has a "pigtail" out one side that breaks out to DVI and USB, and then on another corner it has an ADC plug. A 3rd corner takes a "Mickey Mouse" type AC plug.
There you go: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323773639159 (MODS: NOT MY AUCTION!)
However, they could be had for less:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202838753467 (MODS: NOT MY AUCTION!)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193112010591 (MODS: NOT MY AUCTION!)
Like the Apple adapter, it's said to be incompatible with the CRT tho.
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Hmm, I wish I'd seen the second you linked.
I'm actually in/near Collinsville, IL...rather often...(at least a couple of days a month, and just spent the past week there and will be there around the new year) so could have even been more of a cheapskate and bought it.
The pictures make it look like the Dr. Bott adapter is built in a Cube power brick, which is quite a bit larger than the Apple adapter...
No, the adapter itself is just a break-out cable as seen in the second listing. It and the display are powered by a Cube power brick.
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There's also https://web.archive.org/web/2001040..._usb_extenders_switches/dvi_to_adc/index.html which interestingly also mentions VGA-to-ADC conversion for the CRT, which Dr. Bott's adapter, like Apple's, doesn't do.
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Yes, with the power connector hack. But for the cube, even physically fitting, it would be way too power demanding. Even a 9000 pro is critical. In particular if a highly clocked CPU upgrade is added.
Also both of the cards do (or would) need a VRM relocation.
[automerge]1577118646[/automerge]
Yes, i was very lucky to find one even then. The come with a fully fuctionate Cube Power Brick. So people needing a replacement for that are behind them too. And even the replacements for the Power Brick alone are getting rarer these days.
[automerge]1577119266[/automerge]
A, just the brick and the adapter sold separately! ...which is kind of a bad idea, as with the adapter without the brick one can do just plain nothing.
And, yes! Even with the DVIator or the Cube itself with it's own Power Brick, using the CRT display should be avoided, as it just draws to much! This display is more for the G4 towers, having much stronger PSUs.
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It should be fine with the Artmix VRM. Also the R9600 doesn't make much heat so it shouldn't eat too much power either.
A well respected and long time member here, @Intell , has stated that there is no issue using CRTs on the Cube.
IIRC, the CRT draws 110W, which is still below the max rating of the 24V rail on the Cube brick and of any ADC-equipped PSU.
I use a CRT on my favorite Cube, and it has not caused issues for me in several years.
But you will have to block pins 3 & 11 and give up ADC, so it's far from an ideal card for OP's purposes.
A few things to note: The G5's ATI 9600 upgrade can only be used with APG 4x machines. The Cube is APG 2x. When using a G5's ATI 9600 in a G4, you must tape off pins 3 and 11, as stated above. You'll also have to relocated the ADC power tab to where it is on the G4's logicboard. I'm rather sure the best ADC capable card for the Cube is a GeForce 3.
There is no problem with using an ADC CRT with a G4 Cube. Had there been, Apple would not have designed it as such. Of the two rails that go into the Cube from its power supply, one is a 24 volt rail that goes directly to the ADC power slot on the logicboard. The ADC's power does not pass through the VRM board.
Apple's DVI to ADC adapter is not compatible with the ADC CRT display. It is clearly stated on its packaging. It was initially that this was because the DVI-ADC adapter's 96 watt power supply wasn't enough for the ADC CRT's 113 watt continues max load. However, research over the past 19 years has shown that it is because the ADC CRT uses VGA/analogue signals, not DVI/digital. This renders it incompatible with most ADC adapters. There are a rare few VGA-ADC adapters that may work, but I have not looked into them very much. The Dr. Bott adabper will also not work with an ADC CRT.
Of the two more popular ADC adapters sold, Apple's and Dr. Bott, Apple's is must more stable and prevalent. The Dr. Bott one is more common now days because most of the Apple ones have already been purchased by those that want an ADC adapter. Doing the same search 8-14 years ago, there were a log more very cheap Apple DVI-ADC adapters. Those that purchase the Apple ones know that they contain logic to help with the powering on and other controls with the ADC display. The Dr. Bott one is simply a pass through that has shown to have problems in some setups.
The only problem that I can foresee with using a ADC CRT with a Cube is the Cube's nearly 20 year old power supply being weak due to aging. Keep in mind that they do have a limited lifespan. Apple did design them to be used with a Cube, but doing so 20 years later is of your own risk.
There is no problem with using an ADC CRT with a G4 Cube. Had there been, Apple would not have designed it as such. Of the two rails that go into the Cube from its power supply, one is a 24 volt rail that goes directly to the ADC power slot on the logicboard. The ADC's power does not pass through the VRM board.
Apple's DVI to ADC adapter is not compatible with the ADC CRT display. It is clearly stated on its packaging. It was initially that this was because the DVI-ADC adapter's 96 watt power supply wasn't enough for the ADC CRT's 113 watt continues max load. However, research over the past 19 years has shown that it is because the ADC CRT uses VGA/analogue signals, not DVI/digital. This renders it incompatible with most ADC adapters. There are a rare few VGA-ADC adapters that may work, but I have not looked into them very much. The Dr. Bott adabper will also not work with an ADC CRT.
Of the two more popular ADC adapters sold, Apple's and Dr. Bott, Apple's is must more stable and prevalent. The Dr. Bott one is more common now days because most of the Apple ones have already been purchased by those that want an ADC adapter. Doing the same search 8-14 years ago, there were a log more very cheap Apple DVI-ADC adapters. Those that purchase the Apple ones know that they contain logic to help with the powering on and other controls with the ADC display. The Dr. Bott one is simply a pass through that has shown to have problems in some setups.
The only problem that I can foresee with using a ADC CRT with a Cube is the Cube's nearly 20 year old power supply being weak due to aging. Keep in mind that they do have a limited lifespan. Apple did design them to be used with a Cube, but doing so 20 years later is of your own risk.
Yes, thanks! This i completely forgot about. The G5 9600, like any othe 9600, just hasn't the AGP 2x "key". So it will not even physically fit. Even with the power connector relocated.
Yes, that's how the "VRM bypass" of some of the better Cube CPU upgrades works!
And yes, if you guys can prove the CRT working with the Cube, it seems to be ok. I never tried myself, but seem to remeber some reports over at the (now closed) CO of people havin blown their PSUs with this display. But this may well have had other reasons, as the power brick is a more weak part in general.
For the ADC-cards:
I think the 9000pro is more or less on par with the GF3 performancewise. And furthermore, they both have their pros and cons. The 9000 was never meant for Cube-use and so it requires a VRM relocation. On the other hand, it can drive two independent displays (only one of them ADC for sure!), which the GF3 cannot. But the GF3 has the advantage of an active cooling solution / fan, which has to be added to the 9000 if used in the cube, as for cards of this performance level it is absolutely neccessary in the Cube's tight fitting case with no airflow in the vid-card/VRM area and the VRM heating this up too.
I run a Geforce 3 in one of my Cubes(connected to an ADC CRT)-it's been sitting on my desk since 2015 and ticks along fine.
I don't know that I'd consider the 9000 and Geforce 3 in any way comparable. About the only thing-to me-that the 9000 has going for it is that it can drive two displays. The 9000 and 4MX are really roughly comparable, and the 4MX is basically a slightly higher clocked 2MX Twin-View. The Geforce 3, in my use of it, is really only bested in OS 9 in absolute performance by the 4Ti, and of course that's completely off-limits for the Cube.
At least some of the games I play on mine also have Nvidia-specific features that can REALLY make even a 2MX a better choice for a Cube than something like an original Radeon or a 7500.
I don't know that I'd consider the 9000 and Geforce 3 in any way comparable. About the only thing-to me-that the 9000 has going for it is that it can drive two displays. The 9000 and 4MX are really roughly comparable, and the 4MX is basically a slightly higher clocked 2MX Twin-View. The Geforce 3, in my use of it, is really only bested in OS 9 in absolute performance by the 4Ti, and of course that's completely off-limits for the Cube.
At least some of the games I play on mine also have Nvidia-specific features that can REALLY make even a 2MX a better choice for a Cube than something like an original Radeon or a 7500.
Here are two Apple press releases putting the Cube and ADC CRT together: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2000/07/19Apple-Introduces-Revolutionary/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2000...omplement-Power-Mac-G4-Cube-and-Power-Mac-G4/ Don't forget all the stock images Apple has released with the Cube and ADC CRT together.
As for the ATI 9000 vs GeForce 3, they're about the same for OpenGL as seen here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/some-ppc-openmark-benchmarks.1848060/