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gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 7, 2017
220
600
Tours (France)
Hi,

just tested yesterday an upgrade of a plain basic MacStudio M1 Max (2022) from 512GB to 4TB.

and it works :

  • take off the 512 GB NAND
  • insert in the right order the two 2TB NANDs inside the slots
  • restaure the MacStudio bridgeOS with another Mac and AppleConfigurator
  • et voilà !

IMG_0790.jpeg

IMG_0793.jpeg


IMG_0798.jpeg

IMG_0816.jpeg

0 - Capture  MacStudio 2 copie.png

0-Mac Studio 4TB copie.png



In my tests I have measured the write speed of both configs :


1 - Test write 4 Gb:s.png

single 512 GB NAND card starts at 4.09GB/s


1 - Test write 690 MB:s.png

after SLC cache is filled, single 512GB NAND stalls at 690MB/s

0-Mac Studio dd if=dev 6,9GB:s.png
the pair of 2TB NAND cards starts at 6.91GB/s


0-Mac Studio dd if=dev 3,4GB:s.png
once SLC cache is filled write speed goes down to 3.14GB/s


To be noted, if the 2TB NANDs are inserted in the wrong order the AppleConfigurator restauration fails with an error.

IMG_0802.jpeg




Important notes :

replacement or upgrade NAND cards for the Mac Studio are not available anywhere at the present.
Apple does not sell them nor intend to.

One could interpolate what occured with the iMac Pro (2017) and the Mac Pro (2019) and imagine that if Apple ships one day a new Apple Silicon Mac Pro, NAND modules similar to those of the Mac Studio would become available on the market.
This is possible but highly hypothetical.

Nevertheless, NAND daughtercards on the Mac Studio use the exact same configurations as those in the M1 MacBook Pro 14" and 16".
And they also use the exact same BGA110 Nands chips used in the iPhone 8 to 14 and all the M1 and M2 Mac line, which are available on the grey market.
One can already upgrade NANDs on a T2 Intel Mac, or on a M1 or M2 Mac, involving soldering BGA chips.

So it would be possible to build a PCB, solder some BGA NANDs on it (for exemple 4x Kioxia KICM229 make a 2TB NAND daugter card), and program them with a JCID programmer.

but no third party company (like OWC) may ever sold this, because those NANDs are very specific to Apple (they are not regular NANDs, the IC integrate NAND with a custom ARM core linked via a PCIe link to specific lines in the M1 CPU).

And manufacturers like Kioxia or Hynix have exclusive contracts with Apple and are forbidden to sell their BGA 110 Nand production to third-party companies.
 

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gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 7, 2017
220
600
Tours (France)
Nice find, even Linus tried this and couldn't get it to work. So they obviously inserted them in the wrong order. Time to write them about this.

Already quoted them on twitter (but with my small account, few hope of getting attention)

In fact you have to meet two criteria for the upgrade to be successful :
First the NANDs need to be programmed to set their storage configuration. Apple does this, but obviously nobody has tools for that. We can by the way copy a working configuration with JCID programmers.

Second, the NANDs configuration needs to be supported. Exemple of supported configurations :
  • 512 GB = 1x 512 GB NAND card (including 4x soldered 128GB nands)
  • 1 TB = 1x 1 TB NAND card (including 4x soldered 256 GB nands)
  • 4 TB = 2x 2 TB NAND cards (each including 4x soldered 512 GB nands)

Putting 2x 512 GB NAND to get 1TB is not supported.

I'm not sure about 2 TB configuration, but it should be supported with 2x 1 TB NAND, but they need to be programmed to be in that configuration before installed in the Mac Studio.


Where did you get the spare NAND flash boards?

No mystery here, got them in another 4TB Mac Studio 😓
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,039
1,381
Denmark
Already quoted them on twitter (but with my small account, few hope of getting attention)

In fact you have to meet two criteria for the upgrade to be successful :
First the NANDs need to be programmed to set their storage configuration. Apple does this, but obviously nobody has tools for that. We can by the way copy a working configuration with JCID programmers.

Second, the NANDs configuration needs to be supported. Exemple of supported configurations :
  • 512 GB = 1x 512 GB NAND card (including 4x soldered 128GB nands)
  • 1 TB = 1x 1 TB NAND card (including 4x soldered 256 GB nands)
  • 4 TB = 2x 2 TB NAND cards (each including 4x soldered 512 GB nands)

Putting 2x 512 GB NAND to get 1TB is not supported.

I'm not sure about 2 TB configuration, but it should be supported with 2x 1 TB NAND, but they need to be programmed to be in that configuration before installed in the Mac Studio.




No mystery here, got them in another 4TB Mac Studio 😓
That certainly explains why the speed first increases at 4TB. So given the speed I assume 2TB and under is just a single blade. Thanks for sharing your findings!

Would be nice for someone to offer upgrades, although I assume it would be too expensive considering the Mac Studio marketshare is tiny.
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,821
6,876
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
With the transition of being able to self-repair things, I wonder if Apple will start selling the NAND flash boards separately.
Hmm. Not likely
Very nice find. I will post this to Luke Miani as he also tried it.
I'm VERY certain Luke knows about this already as he's the first to break the news of the Mac Studio, the first to open it up and attempt the SSD swap, and then had an update. That was a few months back now.
 

dlopan

macrumors 6502
Jun 17, 2008
320
322
Albuquerque
Yes, lots in my mbp late 13, I almost took them to court. I was thinking of what happens after the warranty goes out.
 

EzisAA

macrumors regular
Jan 26, 2017
110
63
Riga, Latvia
Hi,
like many TLC drives, it seems to be one third of the free storage.
see my capture on the first post : speed drops after 1.7TB with the SSD empty
This is really good news. Because next MacBook Pro 14 inch I will planning get with 4TB. And stop working from external 2TB nvme SSD.
 

krburrell

macrumors regular
Dec 5, 2007
110
1
If I were able to get two 2TB NANDs from the Apple Self Service Repair Store, is there any reason why I couldn't do the same upgrade here or am I missing something?
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,039
1,381
Denmark
If I were able to get two 2TB NANDs from the Apple Self Service Repair Store, is there any reason why I couldn't do the same upgrade here or am I missing something?
Unless your machine were bought as a 4TB machine you can't. You can only repair your machine with what it shipped with for, you know, reasons 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: VaruLV

Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,092
1,894
Unless your machine were bought as a 4TB machine you can't. You can only repair your machine with what it shipped with for, you know, reasons 🤷🏼‍♂️
But his question was hypothetical if he were able to; according to this thread's OP it seems possible then, he "borrowed" the 2+2TB modules from another Studio, you could consider the source being the same as Apple's repair program.

I have no insight as to what the OP has done that differs from Luke Miani or LTT since they both couldn't pull this off. It is quite likely they missed a certain step or some things have changed with Apple's software / firmware.
 

handheldgames

macrumors 68000
Apr 4, 2009
1,939
1,169
Pacific NW, USA
If I were able to get two 2TB NANDs from the Apple Self Service Repair Store, is there any reason why I couldn't do the same upgrade here or am I missing something?

If we can get Apple to open the parts store and sell us 2 2TB nands labeled slot 1 and slot 2, then we could be in business. Hopefully the new Mac Pro due later this year would open up the market for those parts, but knowing Apple, that may not be an upgradable part of the configuration.
 

ardvark90

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2023
5
5
Hi,

just tested yesterday an upgrade of a plain basic MacStudio M1 Max (2022) from 512GB to 4TB.

and it works :

  • take off the 512 GB NAND
  • insert in the right order the two 2TB NANDs inside the slots
  • restaure the MacStudio bridgeOS with another Mac and AppleConfigurator
  • et voilà !

View attachment 2112393

View attachment 2112392


View attachment 2112396

View attachment 2112398

View attachment 2112389

View attachment 2112387



In my tests I have measured the write speed of both configs :


View attachment 2112391

single 512 GB NAND card starts at 4.09GB/s


View attachment 2112388

after SLC cache is filled, single 512GB NAND stalls at 690MB/s

View attachment 2112390
the pair of 2TB NAND cards starts at 6.91GB/s


View attachment 2112386
once SLC cache is filled write speed goes down to 3.14GB/s


To be noted, if the 2TB NANDs are inserted in the wrong order the AppleConfigurator restauration fails with an error.

View attachment 2112397




Important notes :

replacement or upgrade NAND cards for the Mac Studio are not available anywhere at the present.
Apple does not sell them nor intend to.

One could interpolate what occured with the iMac Pro (2017) and the Mac Pro (2019) and imagine that if Apple ships one day a new Apple Silicon Mac Pro, NAND modules similar to those of the Mac Studio would become available on the market.
This is possible but highly hypothetical.

Nevertheless, NAND daughtercards on the Mac Studio use the exact same configurations as those in the M1 MacBook Pro 14" and 16".
And they also use the exact same BGA110 Nands chips used in the iPhone 8 to 14 and all the M1 and M2 Mac line, which are available on the grey market.
One can already upgrade NANDs on a T2 Intel Mac, or on a M1 or M2 Mac, involving soldering BGA chips.

So it would be possible to build a PCB, solder some BGA NANDs on it (for exemple 4x Kioxia KICM229 make a 2TB NAND daugter card), and program them with a JCID programmer.

but no third party company (like OWC) may ever sold this, because those NANDs are very specific to Apple (they are not regular NANDs, the IC integrate NAND with a custom ARM core linked via a PCIe link to specific lines in the M1 CPU).

And manufacturers like Kioxia or Hynix have exclusive contracts with Apple and are forbidden to sell their BGA 110 Nand production to third-party companies.
Awesome!

Do you think a Mac Studio with a 1TB or 2TB config could be converted to 512GB in the same way?
 

ardvark90

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2023
5
5
Another question... Is it possible to get configurator2 to reimage a mac studio with an external thunderbolt ssd (no internal ssd connected at all)?
 

ardvark90

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2023
5
5
Prices via the self service repair program:

512GB ~$450
1TB ~$550
2TB ~$850
4TB ~$1300
8TB ~$2200

Add tax and get 88 bucks back for sending the old modules back in.

The Mac Studio repair manual (manual ID: CWQBNX) is available, and says that the serial number ending in 0 or 1 for the nand module indicates which slot it is supposed to go into.

If anyone is willing to sell their 512GB module, I'd like to try downgrading and would be interested in making a deal (that's less awful than the $450 price... dang).
 
Last edited:
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