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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

timb said:
Right, we all know this. We've all been over this.

The issue is, the cards may not initialize themselves properly without BIOS support on the motherboard. This appears to be the issue I ran into when trying to get my X1900 working.

People got 7800's working because it seems like the 7300's UGA driver would find and initialize both cards. The 7300 very well may not initialize the 8800.

If dynamic can't provide proof for his claim then we'll wait until 10.5.2 is released and I can provide steps for people to try. You will need: PC 8800, Mac 7300, spare time and a bit of patients.
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timb would an Apple 8800GT work perhaps?
 
mrcandy said:
Timb - I'm guessing the chances of getting a PC 8800 initialized and working from the EFI on an HD 2600 are somewhere between zero and razor thin. Any comment?
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None, it wouldn't know how to initialize a GeForce card.

AdvocateUK said:
timb would an Apple 8800GT work perhaps?
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Well, the Apple card has a 64-Bit UGA driver, so that would most likely prevent the system from booting at all. We'd really have to see.
 
timb said:
8800GT is a G92 core.

At the very least he has to be using a 7300GT to get past pre-boot. If the 7300GT's UGA isn't taking care of the 8800GT then he may be using Natit.kext to place the proper entries into the IOReg. No one uses Titan.kext anymore, FYI; Natit.kext is the open-source replacement.
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Yes but the Geforce 8800GTS 640MB is certainly not using a G92 core. It's a G80-based card he is using.

dynamic said:
Just so everyone knows, it is very possible to a PC 8800 in a Mac Pro. I have an EVGA 8800 GTS 640 MB installed in my Mac Pro at home, no special firmware, and it runs in both Leopard and Vista great. This is done using the special Apple power cable and some drivers from the 'Hackintosh' scene.
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All this is over my head, but I thought that Vista was going EFI aware this spring. Wouldn't that mean we might see some EFI PCs about this year, and further, wouldn't that also mean that PC graphics cards would also have to be EFI aware this year?
 
Blogger said:
All this is over my head, but I thought that Vista was going EFI aware this spring. Wouldn't that mean we might see some EFI PCs about this year, and further, wouldn't that also mean that PC graphics cards would also have to be EFI aware this year?
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They dropped the supports for it. They had enough to worry about without EFI on top of it. Its suppose to be added later in the life of vista though.
 
Blogger said:
All this is over my head, but I thought that Vista was going EFI aware this spring. Wouldn't that mean we might see some EFI PCs about this year, and further, wouldn't that also mean that PC graphics cards would also have to be EFI aware this year?
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It will be shipping only on the 64-Bit versions of Vista this summer.

It could push video card makers to write EFI ROMs, we'll see though. It would be cheaper for them, since they're written in C versus 16-Bit ASM.

Ultimately they might be slow to adopt, since PCs will have a full BIOS compatibility layer in their EFI (much like what allows us to boot into Windows via Boot Camp).

Think of it this way: You can still buy PCs with serial and parallel ports on them. They still make motherboard chipsets that use ISA busses. They still use BIOS.

The PC industry is scared to death of change, Microsoft loves its legacy support. This is why I love Apple; when something new comes along, they adopt it, however, as you can see by the very situation we're in right now, it's a blessing and a curse.
 
timb said:
It will be shipping only on the 64-Bit versions of Vista this summer.

It could push video card makers to write EFI ROMs, we'll see though. It would be cheaper for them, since they're written in C versus 16-Bit ASM.

Ultimately they might be slow to adopt, since PCs will have a full BIOS compatibility layer in their EFI (much like what allows us to boot into Windows via Boot Camp).

Think of it this way: You can still buy PCs with serial and parallel ports on them. They still make motherboard chipsets that use ISA busses. They still use BIOS.

The PC industry is scared to death of change, Microsoft loves its legacy support. This is why I love Apple; when something new comes along, they adopt it, however, as you can see by the very situation we're in right now, it's a blessing and a curse.
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Thanks timb, good points.
 
timb said:
The 8800GTS has a G92 now. As does the 8800GS.

So it depends on how old the card is.

Source
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Ok, let me explain this once and for all...

A Geforce 8800GTS with 640MB or 320MB is based on the G80 core.

A Geforce 8800GT and the new Geforce 8800GTS both have 512MB of framebuffer because they are coupled up with a 256-bit memory bus.

The G80, however, could have a 384-bit memory bus and any divider lower than that. So the Geforce 8800GTX had the full memory bus with 768MB of framebuffer. The Geforce 8800GTS had 320-bit with its 640MB and 320MB framebuffer.

The person before was using a G80-based Geforce 8800GTS.
 
Can I install an 8800 card for Windows when I already have an x1900XT installed? From what I understand, there is only the one x16 slot in there.
 
Well, the UK Apple Store has just gone down prior to the keynote. As an aside, however, I've been unable to check the status of my account, and hence my 8800GT order, as that part of the site has been down for maintenance all day. Makes me wonder if wheels are turning...
 
Looks like Apple updated the description on the 8800GT

The info on the card at the apple store has changed. See below.

Overview
For advanced graphics performance, choose the latest-generation NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 video memory. With a unified shader core and massive memory bandwidth, the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT brings advanced performance to graphics-intensive applications like motion graphics, 3D modeling, rendering, and animation. It features a PCI Express 2.0 interface for a high-bandwidth connection to the Mac Pro and two dual-link DVI ports for connecting up to two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays.
Compatibility:
Requires Mac Pro with PCI-Express 2.0
Includes a DVI to VGA connector for easy connection to VGA-based displays
 
Same information for ATI card

Then "only compatible with pci-express 2.0" is no relevant information

:confused:

Still confused with Apple
 
lloyd709 said:
Still no information on what Apple are going to do for the 'old' Mac Pro users!
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Aaaaand you won't get any. They don't HAVE to do anything lloyd. You got what you paid for when you bought it and were perfectly happy until you weren't the newest biggest dog on the block anymore. Tough luck.
 
MovieCutter said:
Aaaaand you won't get any. They don't HAVE to do anything lloyd. You got what you paid for when you bought it and were perfectly happy until you weren't the newest biggest dog on the block anymore. Tough luck.
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Not quite true. I bought the computer because I was told when I was in the shop that Apple would be bringing out much faster graphics cards in the near future - as simple as that.

I use the computer for work, and the graphics capabilities need to be at a professional standard, not just now but in 3 years time. I don't think that's too much to expect when buying Apple's top of the range computer. It's not about being the 'biggest dog on the block', it's about staying competitive! Do you use your computer to make a living?

But I suppose you right when you say 'Tough luck'.
 
I am very irritated - no new comment or information at the keynote. My 8800 GT ships on 21st. I am wondering why nobody contacted my here in germany.

Any update? Or did everybody cancel thier orders?

*sigh*
 
thasoul said:
I am very irritated - no new comment or information at the keynote. My 8800 GT ships on 21st. I am wondering why nobody contacted my here in germany.

Any update? Or did everybody cancel thier orders?

*sigh*
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Well, I still haven't been contacted and I've no intention of cancelling.
 
MovieCutter said:
Aaaaand you won't get any. They don't HAVE to do anything lloyd. You got what you paid for when you bought it and were perfectly happy until you weren't the newest biggest dog on the block anymore. Tough luck.
Click to expand...

Y'know, I'd wait and see what happens first.

1) Clearly the Apple 8800GT is incompatible with older Mac Pro's because of the Firmware/EFI issue. Stock 8800GT's, the kind you buy for PC's will work in older Mac Pro's, but only Bootcamp and Windows. PROVEN. So sticking "For PCI 2.0 slots only" isnt strictly correct.

2) Blizzard have a number of older Mac Pro's that they would like to use with this new card. They're working with Apple on a possible solution.

Worst comes to the worst, I just go out and buy a stock 8800GT and switch back to Windows. Considering the specs for the rest of the machine (HD, memory, CPU) its still a beast.

Im confident that Apple will work out a solution though. I just think that it might not be in a timescale thats satisfactory to a lot of people here.
 
My issue is, that I want to know if apple is working on a solution. Perhaps they don´t know themselfs how to fix the 8800GT. On the other side I am really missing the official side of communication. Just calling people, that the 8800 GT does not work because of the PCI bus isn´t really professional.

Where is the official statement? Hrmpf.
 
thasoul said:
My issue is, that I want to know if apple is working on a solution. Perhaps they don´t know themselfs how to fix the 8800GT. On the other side I am really missing the official side of communication. Just calling people, that the 8800 GT does not work because of the PCI bus isn´t really professional.

Where is the official statement? Hrmpf.
Click to expand...

The update to the Upgrade (Upgrade? More like Uprage) kit stating that the card requires a PCI-Express 2.0 slot is as likely a statement you will get for now.

I dont think we'll see any more movement on this issue until 10.5.2 becomes public (as it contains the NV drivers). Perhaps Apple might quietly revise the product description by then if they're intending to correct the firmware issue.

Until then, Im just going to sit back and wait and see.
 
Furthermore, they've also stuck the "PCIe 2.0 only" label on the Radeon 2600 and that's been confirmed to work in the older Mac Pros by ATI! It's still "wait and see" over here and, if necessary, I have the option to go to a dual boot (Ubuntu 64 and XP) instead of my current triple boot set-up.
 
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