Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

[giantrobot]

You were told by an Apple grunt who should not have said what he said as he had no more information than you did. And yes, I do make my computer to make a living. I edit high definition video on a MacBook Pro, quite effectively I might add. Apple has never officially said that your precious 8800GT would work on last year's tower. So they owe you nothing, you'll be LUCKY if they make it work.

This is an upgrade that can easily be offered to old Mac Pro users and its clear that they are not going to allow this in order to boost new MacPro sales. They owe me nothing more than what they sold me but they sold me a machine promised as upgradable...how is the mac pro any more upgradable than an imac or even a notebook? We are talking internal storage vs external storage and thats about it.

Its bottom line thinking at its worst and I would like the general public to know more about this business practice. People need to Dig this.

 

[damado]

So if I wanted to upgrade in the future...can I just get the new mac pro motherboard like from here once they can supply it and just swap it in?

 

[Og Oggilby]

You were told by an Apple grunt who should not have said what he said as he had no more information than you did. And yes, I do make my computer to make a living. I edit high definition video on a MacBook Pro, quite effectively I might add.

Wow, someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? No soup for you!

What is "I do make my computer to make a living" supposed to mean? I thought you edit high definition video for a living. "I do make my computer to make a living" sounds like you make computers. Just wondering.

Apple has never officially said that your precious 8800GT would work on last year's tower.

Apple's official web site had the "precious 8800GT" listed as an upgrade for Mac Pro's. That is pretty official. The site didn't mention that the upgrade was for the new Mac Pro's, just Mac Pro's. They should have made the listing clearer. The owner's of older Mac Pro's have every right to be upset for the way this has been handled.

So they owe you nothing, you'll be LUCKY if they make it work.

We were promised by Apple that the Mac Pro was amazingly expandable, not somewhat expandable. I know what they can advertise... "Mac Pro.. you'll be LUCKY if you can expand on it!". The fact that Apple's own employees can't figure what works with the Mac Pro's is just sad.

 

[davidb367]

I've added a PCI card fan, swapped the video card cooler and for the most part it works fine. The remaining issue is with Windows and high end games. Try Bioshock under Windows and see if you don't shutdown or get artifacts after 5 or 10 minutes. There is no BootCamp motherboard fan driver for Windows. Really, that's what the 8800GT does for the older Mac Pro users. It doubles the performance for games and uses the same amount of power. So I can adjust the game settings to prevent the Mac from shutting down. I realize that you probably can't put 2 in an older MacPro because of the limitations of the PCI-e 1.1 power draw, but I can live with that.

My 1st. gen. Mac Pro with X1900XT video hasn't ever really "crapped out under heavy load". I think *once*, I managed to get it to overheat enough to start drawing random "garbage" pixels across my screen. After that, I installed one of those 3rd. party fan control applications, and configured it to turn up the default "slowest" speed of many of the Mac Pro cooling fans to a little bit higher speed. Now, overall temps. in the case are lower - and I haven't had the video issue again either.

Other people (see notes on www.xlr8yourmac.com) have had success putting better cooling fans on their X1900XT cards too. Granted, this solution costs you a little time and money, but it's a viable "fix" if it's giving you a lot of grief.

I don't see why I wouldn't recommend a new Mac Pro to someone interested in that type of system. The big "news" with it is, you're getting a whole new motherboard chipset and faster bus speed, and it takes correspondingly faster RAM. It's not like they're just selling you a "warmed over" 1st. gen. Mac Pro with better CPUs plopped onto it.

The video card "issue" is interesting to watch people fume over, because until Apple announced they even had an 8800GT option at all, people seemed mostly satisfied with their X1900XT cards. I sure never saw all the screaming about their multi-thousand dollar Mac Pro being "junk" and "obsolete", at least.... Rather, most people concluded that the biggest limitations to performance still lay with software that wasn't optimized to really use multiple processor cores/threads. The main reason people forked over the bucks for these "Pro" towers was often to reduce rendering times, and that's a CPU issue.... not a video card issue.

From everything I'm reading so far, it sounds like the 8800GT doesn't work in older Mac Pros simply because its BIOS is only EFI64 compliant, not EFI32 compliant. (The ATI X2600HD card, by comparison, has both EFI32 and EFI64 support in its BIOS chip.) This could very well be because the 8800GT has a lot more code in its BIOS and both versions simply didn't FIT in the thing at one time. That being the case, Apple would have to have nVidia build a seperate EFI32-only BIOS version of the same card to sell you for older Mac Pros. Maybe they'll do this? But surely, they wouldn't do this right now - when the card is in short supply and needs to first and foremost go in brand new systems for people.

 

[MovieCutter]

Wow, someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? No soup for you!

What is "I do make my computer to make a living" supposed to mean? I thought you edit high definition video for a living. "I do make my computer to make a living" sounds like you make computers. Just wondering.

Read in context much? It's obvious I meant "use" not "make" sorry for the inconvenience.

Apple's official web site had the "precious 8800GT" listed as an upgrade for Mac Pro's. That is pretty official. The site didn't mention that the upgrade was for the new Mac Pro's, just Mac Pro's. They should have made the listing clearer. The owner's of older Mac Pro's have every right to be upset for the way this has been handled.

Well, it mentions it NOW, and their website says so pretty specifically. Sorry

We were promised by Apple that the Mac Pro was amazingly expandable, not somewhat expandable. I know what they can advertise... "Mac Pro.. you'll be LUCKY if you can expand on it!". The fact that Apple's own employees can't figure what works with the Mac Pro's is just sad.

16GB RAM, PCI-e slots, 4 SATA bays, that seems pretty expandable to me. So you can't upgrade the video card right now. That doesn't mean the older Mac Pros are useless. If you've ever worked for Apple in a retail environment, you'd know that they get the same documentation as the website says. They don't know anymore than you do if you read the product page. Some of them like to THINK they do, but they don't. Does it suck that people were told the wrong thing? Yes. Does it suck you can't use the 8800GT in your old Mac Pro? Yes. Will bitching about it, threatening petitions and class action lawsuits and whining and moaning about it's not FAIR do anything to help your case? Survey says no.

 

[Og Oggilby]

Read in context much? It's obvious I meant "use" not "make" sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks for clearing that up. Your statement was as obvious as Apple's when they advertised the 8800 GT was an upgrade for Mac Pro's

Well, it mentions it NOW, and their website says so pretty specifically. Sorry

If only the rest of us could look into the future like you apparently can, then nobody would have wasted their time ordering a video card they can't use. BTW, no need to apologize, it wasn't your fault.

16GB RAM, PCI-e slots, 4 SATA bays, that seems pretty expandable to me. So you can't upgrade the video card right now. That doesn't mean the older Mac Pros are useless. If you've ever worked for Apple in a retail environment, you'd know that they get the same documentation as the website says. They don't know anymore than you do if you read the product page. Some of them like to THINK they do, but they don't. Does it suck that people were told the wrong thing? Yes. Does it suck you can't use the 8800GT in your old Mac Pro? Yes. Will bitching about it, threatening petitions and class action lawsuits and whining and moaning about it's not FAIR do anything to help your case? Survey says no.

I'm guessing that you have never owned a PC workstation. I agree that threatening petitions and class action lawsuits isn't the best thing to do, but I also believe the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If no one mentions there is a problem, nothing would get fixed.

 

[loveturtle]

I feel bad for you guys who are stuck using apple applications or only have a choice between osx or wndows. You guys are really screwed.

I'm going to wait it out and hope that Apple is working on this issue and that it is the reason for the long delay on the cards. I have faith.

That said, I don't mind being locked in to Apple hardware, I don't mind getting delayed upgrades, But to be unable to use the video card upgrade on the machine marketed as "The Ultimate Gamer", with implied video card upgrade capability (since it's a pci-e card and pops right out) for -no- reason other than greed or incompetence (both?) is just completely unacceptable to me. I'm sure it will work out fine for Apple, I'm sure they'll keep getting new customers. Good for them..

As for me, I'm simply going to order a nice LGA 771 motherboard & Nvidia card, install my mac pro's hard drives & cpu & ram in the new box and dual boot between Solaris & Windows.

I'm a big fan of Mac OS and I hope Apple does the right thing. However there is absolutely nothing I do that is Mac OS specific and I'm no stranger to using a Unix workstation.

As for the rest of you, I guess you're screwed. You can take blatant disrespect from Apple or run Vista...Hard to say which one is worse

 

[perpetualcrn]

Wow. It's a sad day to see so many mac fans senselessly arguing....

The scoop: Almost Anyone that got a first gen x1900 and plays 3D games have experiences many problems with the x1900. The mac support second of the world of warcraft forums support this with a very long 21 page post. It is not just warcraft either. The probelm occured in many games, in osx and windows.

Then a new generation of the x1900 was shipped out to those people from apple. Many worked for a long time but now they are starting to crap out again. Some people have gone through many of these cards and can't get a good one. This INCLUDES people using fan control applications. These apps don't mod the fan speed on teh card, but rather the rest of the computer, thus only helping the overheating card out slightly. On top of that, the card collects a substantial amount of dust in the heatsink, enough to need cleaning every 2 weeks.

So naturally people were excited when the 8800 was announced because there wen't any other options that were under 1000 bucks. Then they were let down to find out that it would not work because of a bios problem.

Word has it that the 8800's were supposed to work with the Mac Pros, and they didn't find out that it wouldn't until right before they went up for sale.

From what I have gathered, apple is working on the problem.

 

[giantrobot]

Does it suck you can't use the 8800GT in your old Mac Pro? Yes. Will bitching about it, threatening petitions and class action lawsuits and whining and moaning about it's not FAIR do anything to help your case? Survey says no.

Ive signed the petition. They have lost a customer and they are not going to replace my MacPro and 3 other Apple computers with ipod sales that easily.

BTW, I am also going to take out my ram and hds from the mac pro and buy a new motherboard and 8800 card and run Windows. You dont have to run Vista. XP Pro is pretty good and service pack 3 should be good.

 

[Cowinacape]

Oh and who else thinks the Macbook Air is nothing special?

+1 on the Macbook Air, just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

 

[Deschodt]

Trying again: good card on the XP side

Let me try this one more time...Can we hear from people who put a 8800GT or equivalent to use on the boot camp side ONLY ?

I don't "need" the video horsepower on the Mac side, though it'd be nice. I need it on the boot camp (XP) side to play recent PC games and totally replace my gaming PC. Can I just put a PC flavor card in the Mac, have OS X quietly ignore it when it boots on the Mac side, and have it run (presumably with PC drivers) under Boot camp ? and somehow run this as the primary card in boot camp for PC gaming ? (despite the presence of the 7300 in there)

If I can do that and not have to physically swap hardware @ each boot, I won't be quite as dissapointed...

I'm such a sucker, I can't believe I fell for the upgradability trick, should have got a 24" imac and a spare PC instead for the same money...

 

[Eidorian]

Let me try this one more time...Can we hear from people who put a 8800GT or equivalent to use on the boot camp side ONLY ?

I don't "need" the video horsepower on the Mac side, though it'd be nice. I need it on the boot camp (XP) side to play recent PC games and totally replace my gaming PC. Can I just put a PC flavor card in the Mac, have OS X quietly ignore it when it boots on the Mac side, and have it run (presumably with PC drivers) under Boot camp ? and somehow run this as the primary card in boot camp for PC gaming ? (despite the presence of the 7300 in there)

If I can do that and not have to physically swap hardware @ each boot, I won't be quite as dissapointed...

I'm such a sucker, I can't believe I fell for the upgradability trick, should have got a 24" imac and a spare PC instead for the same money...

You can use any PCI-Express video card on the Windows side. There are a few that won't prevent you from booting into OS X without removing it as well.

 

[Cowinacape]

You can use any PCI-Express video card on the Windows side. There are a few that won't prevent you from booting into OS X without removing it as well.

You wouldn't happen to know of a published list somewhere for these cards would you?

 

[timb]

I'm keeping my order going. I'd like to have a play with rEFIt, booting off the 7300 and then bringing up the 8800, running in XP, running in Linux, etc.

Also, the Apple branded card should have the 128k ROM already on it, so I won't have to do any soldering if I have to flash or hack it.

As to the Air, it's a plaything for wankers who value form over function. It's ironic that, just as Apple is managing to shrug off the unwarranted criticism that they are all style and no substance, they release something that proves their critics right.

The Apple card will most likely have a 64k ROM on it. The HD 2600 and X1900 both did.

 

[cal6n]

The Apple card will most likely have a 64k ROM on it. The HD 2600 and X1900 both did.

Why is it that the "flashers" (for want of a better term) need to solder a larger RAM on their cards, then. Is their code relatively bloated?

 

[timb]

Why is it that the "flashers" (for want of a better term) need to solder a larger RAM on their cards, then. Is their code relatively bloated?

Older (OpenFirmware) Mac compatible cards had 128K ROMs on them, which required you to solder a new ROM if you wanted to use a PC version of the card.

The 7300GT that came with Mac Pros also used a 128K ROM, because it was EFI and PC-BIOS compatible.

The X1900 was 64K because it only contained an EFI ROM. This is part of the reason we got a BIOS compatibility update when Boot Camp was released; to emulate VGA-BIOS through a UGA card.

So, all things considered, the 8800GT should have a standard 64K ROM chip on it.

The first person to get a 8800GT in, please let me know. I have a list of things I'd like to try. You'll also need: Blank CDs and Windows XP installed.

 

[mrcandy]

The first person to get a 8800GT in, please let me know. I have a list of things I'd like to try. You'll also need: Blank CDs and Windows XP installed.

There's a guy in Italy who says he got his 8800 today. https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/4773723/

 

[nihilisticmonk]

Just got this from the Apple Store.

Arse biscuits...

I'm glad I got the soooo upgradable macpro
I know apple haven't ever really cared about graphics cards too much, but you think they'd make an effort in this day and age, especially when trying to attract PC users.

Yes, let the more annoying members of these forums jabber on about how "apple never promised you graphics cards" and more brain freezingly stupid pathetic arguments... The fact is, on a machine I've paid more than £2500 for, you'd expect to be able to do more that shove a few hard drives in.

I could do that via firewire with an imac for christs sake.

 

[cal6n]

Just got this from the Apple Store.

Arse biscuits...

I'm glad I got the soooo upgradable macpro
I know apple haven't ever really cared about graphics cards too much, but you think they'd make an effort in this day and age, especially when trying to attract PC users.

Yes, let the more annoying members of these forums jabber on about how "apple never promised you graphics cards" and more brain freezingly stupid pathetic arguments... The fact is, on a machine I've paid more than £2500 for, you'd expect to be able to do more that shove a few hard drives in.

I could do that via firewire with an imac for christs sake.

Yeah, I just received that email too. Phoned them immediately to confirm that, "yes, I do want what I ordered, thanks"

Should be with me by Jan 22nd at the latest. I won't hold my breath, though.

 

[nihilisticmonk]

Yeah, I just received that email too. Phoned them immediately to confirm that, "yes, I do want what I ordered, thanks"

Should be with me by Jan 22nd at the latest. I won't hold my breath, though.

So you're still going to risk it even though they say it won't work?

 

[damado]

You can use any PCI-Express video card on the Windows side. There are a few that won't prevent you from booting into OS X without removing it as well.

I'd also like to know what cards I can use that will let me boot into osx without having to take it out. I'd have the 7300GT in there for the OSX side.

 

[jemo07]

Official Apple Responce

Looks like the Apple Store has bin given the same direction as someone pointed to earlier and I just got thi from Apple:

Gracias por comprar en el Apple Store.

Nos ponemos en contacto contigo en relación con tu pedido de uno de los siguientes artículos, o de ambos:
MB137Z/A - GeForce 8800GT de NVIDIA
MB198Z/A - Radeon HD 2600XT de ATI.

Te informamos de que estos artículos sólo son compatibles con el nuevo Mac Pro.

Por el momento hemos congelado tu pedido para que puedas decidir si estos productos aún responden a tus necesidades. Por favor, ponte en contacto con nosotros en el teléfono 901010017 en las próximas 48 horas para decirnos si deseas que sigamos tramitando tu pedido o si prefieres cancelarlo.

Lamentamos las molestias que esto te pueda causar.

Un cordial saludo,
El equipo del Apple Store

Which means that both these cards are only support on the New Mac Pro.
They don't have details as to how I could Identify the current Mac Pro and the New Mac Pro.

 

[nihilisticmonk]

I'd also like to know what cards I can use that will let me boot into osx without having to take it out. I'd have the 7300GT in there for the OSX side.

still not ideal because you have to mess about with your pci-e speed settings. (i.e. loose the ability to have a 16x slot).

That's why I avoided it, and the fact there is no clear solid information regarding this even after a year. Sure you can disseminate forum posts, but no-one's done a guide, wiki entry or anything. Really annoying.

 

[knome]

I thought it had 1 x16 slot, 2 8x slots, and a few 1x slots?

 

[shongohan]

Apple have cancelled all the 8800 orders for old macpros

They put an advice via email to all their 8800 customers.
They still can buy the 8800 but apple wash their hands in this topic