No, never considered BIOS. My old machines had Open Firmware and I never paid attention what version of it they were running.
In what aspect did EFI32 prevent the Xeons from running in 64-bit?
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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?
- Thread starter Fezzy
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No, never considered BIOS. My old machines had Open Firmware and I never paid attention what version of it they were running.
In what aspect did EFI32 prevent the Xeons from running in 64-bit?
Agreed.
Cracks me up that some of these people think that the hardware for the Mac Pro is privy. You can easily find the exact same hardware at several online retailers like NewEgg, Mac-Pro.com, MacSales and ZipZoomFly. I bought all my hard drives at NewEgg and my ram from MacSales for the fraction of the cost. The hardware is not privy. The MP case, HD sleds and the DVD brackets to name a few are privy.
I have found a site that sells the replacement HD sleds and the screws. I hate it when Apple uses those soft easy to strip screws. $3,000 machine go figure.
Cracks me up that some of these people think that the hardware for the Mac Pro is privy. You can easily find the exact same hardware at several online retailers like NewEgg, Mac-Pro.com, MacSales and ZipZoomFly. I bought all my hard drives at NewEgg and my ram from MacSales for the fraction of the cost. The hardware is not privy. The MP case, HD sleds and the DVD brackets to name a few are privy.
I have found a site that sells the replacement HD sleds and the screws. I hate it when Apple uses those soft easy to strip screws. $3,000 machine go figure.
They evedentally prevent other hardware from running in that mode. Don't they?
I won't argue this FACT because we all know it's true.
I am not a mac hater and in fact do love Apple products. I own many mac's and Apple products but I will not blindly follow their rules and not be able to upgrade my kit because they do stupid things like this.
The only thing that I can see that doesn't run right is the 8800GT. I still say it's nVidia fault more than Apple's.
The FACT is that trying to say that because the 1st gen Mac Pros came with EFI32 is in anyway defrauding it's customers is crazy.
Hu?! I am talking about Video Cards and other upgrade peripherals...what are you talking about?
Not so fast. nVidia would not easily pass the insanely lucrative Mac market since we (stupidly) pay one hell of a premium for all things Mac. Apple has always tried to restrict what Mac users can and can not buy, unless of course they can make $ off of them. This is entirely under Apple's control.
My bad. I'm agreeing with you.
My paragraph pertained to someone elses entry. I added their quote, but it never took. Didn't mean to confuse you.
My paragraph pertained to someone elses entry. I added their quote, but it never took. Didn't mean to confuse you.
What I do know for a FACT is that since Apple chose this route they lost money on me. And I do also know that this 32bit EFI/Bios is preventing us from running current hardware that "requires 64bit EFI/Bios" now if the machine is truely 64bit release the 64bit firmware for it and get this argument over with.
Based on your specs in your sig you have no vested interest in this fight whereas the rest of us do. At any rate my new "hackintosh" system is more capable than any of the New Mac Pro's so for now I am happy.
There has never been any after market nVidia video cards for any Mac, only OEM ones.
Yes, Apple is always looking to profit.
Read page 51 of this thread. There, you will find a link claims that in April, an EFI32 compatible version of the 8800GT will be released.
It's nVidia's firmware that's preventing the card from running in your Mac Pro. ATI doesn't seem to have a problem writing proper firmware.
I had a 1st gen Mac Pro up until about two weeks ago.
After 20 loyal years and endless (I don't want to think about it) hard earned money invested in Macs, I will likely go the "hackintosh" way as you and others have. We may need to expand the forum for detailed "tips and tricks" on how to run OS X on windozer machines.
I love Macs, I love OS X, I don't love Apple, I certainly don't love Mr. Jobs.
You seem to be missing my point. My point is Apple could quite easily take the initiative and release an EFI64/Bios for the 06-07 Mac Pro's and resolve this problem once and for all. But so far that hasnt happened. Its too easy for people that havent got an interest in this issue being resolved to simply lay blame on anyone other than Apple and just dismiss the problem altogether.
Hum, really? Is that why we have dozens of video card options from ATI and nVidia these days (I am being sarcastic)? We had far more choices before Apple transitioned to Intel. As many experts thought, we should have even more choices since all the Mac hardware is 100% PC compatible and it is just a matter of creating the drivers. A far easier proposition than it used to be in the Power PC days.
Reading the latest message makes me hypothesize that some of you think that have an EFI32 won't allow to use the 64-bit capabilities of the Mac Pro's Xeons, while EFI64 allow.
Have you ever thought on how many -bit uses the old-fashioned BIOS?
According to the Wikipedia article on BIOS, it's compiled as 16-bit code, and in first system was used to communicate directly with peripherals. Later with evolved systems (32-bit or more), that part was assigned to drivers, but the BIOS remained always 16-bit.
Even now modern PCs that are equipped with XP64/Vista64/Any 64-bit OS have the same kind of BIOS, that is responsible only of booting, bootstrapping, clock and low level hardware-related system settings. And that OSes are able to run 64-bit code.
So, have an EFI32 doesn't mean that you can't run 64-bit executables, instead you can. For example, if you have Xcode locate its .app, get info, and deselect the "open in 32 bit mode" option, then launch it and check on activity viewer that it's really using 64-bit capabilities. Under the Kind column you'll see "Intel (64-bit) and under the Virtual memory column you should see an extremely large amount of memory available to the app.
I think that by the time Mac Pro 06 was launched the first implementation of EFI was EFI32, so apple used it also because not all of its systems were 64-bit. But the thing I can't understand is why Apple refuses to update the "old" Pros with an EFI64 code, which as stated in previous posts shouldn't be difficult an expensive.
Have you ever thought on how many -bit uses the old-fashioned BIOS?
According to the Wikipedia article on BIOS, it's compiled as 16-bit code, and in first system was used to communicate directly with peripherals. Later with evolved systems (32-bit or more), that part was assigned to drivers, but the BIOS remained always 16-bit.
Even now modern PCs that are equipped with XP64/Vista64/Any 64-bit OS have the same kind of BIOS, that is responsible only of booting, bootstrapping, clock and low level hardware-related system settings. And that OSes are able to run 64-bit code.
So, have an EFI32 doesn't mean that you can't run 64-bit executables, instead you can. For example, if you have Xcode locate its .app, get info, and deselect the "open in 32 bit mode" option, then launch it and check on activity viewer that it's really using 64-bit capabilities. Under the Kind column you'll see "Intel (64-bit) and under the Virtual memory column you should see an extremely large amount of memory available to the app.
I think that by the time Mac Pro 06 was launched the first implementation of EFI was EFI32, so apple used it also because not all of its systems were 64-bit. But the thing I can't understand is why Apple refuses to update the "old" Pros with an EFI64 code, which as stated in previous posts shouldn't be difficult an expensive.
Where's the profit in that? Apple is holding the reigns and they know it. They want to milk every dime they can out of us. The more loyal you are, the more money Apple will siphon out of you. It's all about supply and demand.
I agree with you.
Apple needs to loosen the reigns and stop pigeonholing their customers.
I agree with you.
Apple needs to loosen the reigns and stop pigeonholing their customers.
lets not mince words
Calling the 2006 Mac Pro non upgradable is extremely generous. The best you can do is an ATI 1900. This is a crippled system. An intentionally crippled system.
This thread has been hovering near the top of the forum for months. It is not going away on its own and it is highly visible. I have written a dozen posts on this subject and almost past the point of no return. I am so frustrated that I will not purchase Apple products and they have already lost more in sales to me than the cost of my Mac Pro. The company probably thinks that people will forget about this if they release a card later when the Mac Pro is so obsolete that it cannot compete with their other computers even with the new card. This is a miscalculation on their part.
Calling the 2006 Mac Pro non upgradable is extremely generous. The best you can do is an ATI 1900. This is a crippled system. An intentionally crippled system.
This thread has been hovering near the top of the forum for months. It is not going away on its own and it is highly visible. I have written a dozen posts on this subject and almost past the point of no return. I am so frustrated that I will not purchase Apple products and they have already lost more in sales to me than the cost of my Mac Pro. The company probably thinks that people will forget about this if they release a card later when the Mac Pro is so obsolete that it cannot compete with their other computers even with the new card. This is a miscalculation on their part.
For $200 at most, hopefully. In April the 9800GT will be available in the same price range the 8800GT is currently at. There's already a premium for the Apple 8800GT. If that premium remains we'll be paying more for an older product.
Though that's typical of Apple.
I have no idea how easy or difficult it is to replace the EFI in 1st gen Mac Pros with EFI64.
You really can't blame Apple for the fact that ATI and nVidia don't make after market video cards for Macs.
I don't know if it's intentionally crippled or not. All I know is that the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT has no problems running in 1st gen Mac Pros because ATI did the firmware right.
Actually, during the PowerPC days, we didn't have far more choices. You had a base card (GeForce 2MX/4MX, Rage series, Radeon 7000 etc.) or a high-end card (GeForce 3/4Ti, Radeon 9000/9800PRO). Most cards were only available as BTO parts.
I'm not happy with the GeForce 8800GT situation, but Apple is following pretty much the same sales model they have since the introduction of the Blue & White G3 tower, with a 2-3 card GPU lineup.
But I have an essentially unaltered (PC) GeForce 6800GT running in my G4 tower...works fine thanks. Doing a re-flash is a basically similar process whether you're dealing with BIOS or EFI. But true Apple video cards use both, and now (unlike during the PPC days) Windows and OS X use very different types of firmware in their video cards. If anything it's more complex, even though we've switched to an Intel hardware platform.
With Apple keeping a tight reign on Mac expansion capabilities, don't ever expect to be able to get Mac versions of every GPU that comes on the market. The best we can hope for is 1 or 2 additional options and faster updates (and even that is a stretch).
Hello? Nvidia makes an 8800 card for 2008 Mac Pros. There is no technical reason that it could not have been made backwards compatible. It apparently would have been extremely easy had Apple wanted this.
This is a horrible thing to do to your customers. Defending bad business practices will not help Apple recover its share value. Correcting them however will. Those of you who are shareholders should not be trying to cover this up or downplay it. You should be the ones trying to push Apple to fix this. You do not seem to understand how much this is damaging the brand.
Don't forget to mention you will destroy Cupertino with your special
cosmic raygun.