Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

[contoursvt]

Well the Mac platform has never been more flexible when compared to the PC. Its just that the OS is more polished and secure as you said.

Also I've seen an AGP 7900GS which should be good and recently the ATI 3850 in AGP. Kinda funny actually...

All this debate about pre-early '08 Mac Pro's not being upgradeable (yes that includes my MacPro purchased Nov'07) reminds me of the PC.

Even the venerable AGP slot equipped PC can still have a good video card - remember the 7800+ video card from Gainward?

As a long time PC user who has bought a MP in hopes of a complete switchover it is sad to see that Apple has not really changed in all these years and logn time MP users getting ripped in terms of upgrade.

It seems after all that PCs are still your best bet if you want flexibility in terms of hardware and software - tempered vs. Mac's OSX security and much polished OS.

 

[jjahshik32]

Well the Mac platform has never been more flexible when compared to the PC. Its just that the OS is more polished and secure as you said.

Also I've seen an AGP 7900GS which should be good and recently the ATI 3850 in AGP. Kinda funny actually...

Yea I agree, G5's were also limited in the gpu area as well.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It seems after all that PCs are still your best bet if you want flexibility in terms of hardware and software - tempered vs. Mac's OSX security and much polished OS.

What type of flexibility are you talking about? If you're worried about the latest video card yes, you'll be disappointed. But the Mac Pro is a very flexible system otherwise. It's not fair to use the video card situation to generalize about the whole machine.

PCs will always be more flexible as long as Apple follows its model of close control over all facets of the Macs. On the other hand, there is a lot of seriously craptastic PC hardware out there...

 

[dreamof3d]

Just give us a graphics card somewhere between $300 - $800.00

Sick of all or nothing choices.

 

[primetimex]

PCs will always be more flexible as long as Apple follows its model of close control over all facets of the Macs. On the other hand, there is a lot of seriously craptastic PC hardware out there...

Agreed - correct me if I am wrong but I thought the whole idea of Apple going to Intel based platform is to give people more choices and hardware flexibility - but we were probably mistaken.

To get back on topic - I hope that a 8800GT / equivalent card is made available for pre'08 MP owners - it'd be a shame if it wasn't 'cos I'm not buying another MP just to upgrade my video card and this will probably be the last MP I will ever buy!

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

...It's not fair to use the video card situation to generalize about the whole machine.

Yes it is fair. Considering the Mac Pro is geared towards creative professionals, and creative professionals use the **** out of their GPUs, this is TOTALLY fair. Would you buy a heavy-duty pickup truck with a tiny little honda engine when you are planning on doing some serious hauling?

 

[Infrared]

Yes it is fair. Considering the Mac Pro is geared towards creative professionals, and creative professionals use the **** out of their GPUs, this is TOTALLY fair.

Your gripe has nothing to do with being a creative professional.
You want to use your machine as a toy and play games with it.

 

[jemo07]

It's not fair to use the video card situation to generalize about the whole machine.

When Apple stops catering to creative professionals, where the MacPro is their product line and the GPU is it's main asset on the hardware side, then yes I could agree with you comment, but at the time I can't concord with you. Apple pushes MacPro to creative professionals, sells on the idea of most powerful PC ever and it's expandability, and the GPU is an intricate part of their solution. Like most stated here (I can't recall who mentioned it) but GPU vendors are, if you look at it from my angle, deceiving their customers. They push a NEW GPU out every 3-6 moths, and from the look of it, in most cases all they are doing is adding some ram and overcloking the GPU. (you can see this bu the size of their cooling systems as the newer system come out)
Now, again no one here is asking for Apple to support every GPU that comes out. They can keep their monopolistic approach of selling HW in the sake of providing stability (anyone remember ATI x1900xt?) but by the same token, they should increase their effort to maintain a fresh product line in the GPU arena for their systems Low-Mid-High GPU. This is all we ask, nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, this is what is done in the high end graphics and workstation space... I used to use HP Kayak and they had a limited number of GPU certified for their systems. Sure Windows allowed you to stick anything in there, but if it failed, you would not get support.

 

[jemo07]

Yes it is fair. Considering the Mac Pro is geared towards creative professionals, and creative professionals use the **** out of their GPUs, this is TOTALLY fair. Would you buy a heavy-duty pickup truck with a tiny little honda engine when you are planning on doing some serious hauling?

Missed your post, I guess we are in the same page here.

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

Your gripe has nothing to do with being a creative professional. You want to use your machine as a toy and play games with it.

That is inappropriate. This is the second time you've made immature assumptions about me. The first was in the other thread about this issue. You don't know me, don't know how old I am, what I do, or what degrees I have. Thanks!

 

[Infrared]

That is inappropriate. This is the second time you've made immature assumptions about me. The first was in the other thread about this issue. You don't know me, don't know how old I am, what I do, or what degrees I have. Thanks!

What creative professional application do you need to
run that performs worse with a X1900 than a 8800GT?

 

[mmulin]

What creative professional application do you need to
run that performs worse with a X1900 than a 8800GT?

..good one. Probably creatively jumping around in UT3. Nevertheless, I support the general opinion that Apple should care a bit more about upgradability of their non-consumer products. Even spending 5k+ every 2-3 years, if a new GPU could take off the edge, is a bit OTT.

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

What creative professional application do you need to run that performs worse with a X1900 than a 8800GT?

Now that's how to argue. Thank you. If you have to ask that question, then you aren't using your Mac Pro to it's full "creative" potential. But since you asked nicely....I have a 7300 and shoot lots of RAW and batch edit them in CS3 and organize in iPhoto. 256MB RAM runs out real quick. Thinking of switching to Aperture, but no reason if I can't get a better card. Even with the 7300 and 8GB RAM on my Quad, it's still not very snappy. I paid for Pro, not Slow.

..good one. Probably creatively jumping around in UT3.

Never got into fighting games. Looking forward to StarCraft II and Spore though.

 

[ungraphic]

Looks like PC users are already capable of getting the 9800GTX, at a price of $329, while mac users are paying more for a worse product:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/01/nvidias-geforce-9800-gtx-officially-launched-officially-fast/

This is really pissing me off.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Yes it is fair. Considering the Mac Pro is geared towards creative professionals, and creative professionals use the **** out of their GPUs, this is TOTALLY fair. Would you buy a heavy-duty pickup truck with a tiny little honda engine when you are planning on doing some serious hauling?

I agree that Apple should be updating its GPUs more often (and pricing them more realistically).

But is the X1900XT simply not capable of keeping up with your workflow? ...Aren't you using a 7300?.

Yes, GPUs are better on the PC. But the GPU update cycle is arbitrary and artificial - just because newer cards come out doesn't mean the previous models work any less well than they did before....unless you automatically upgrade every time a new version of your apps come out, you don't need to follow NVIDIA or ATI's roadmaps card by card.

Agreed - correct me if I am wrong but I thought the whole idea of Apple going to Intel based platform is to give people more choices and hardware flexibility - but we were probably mistaken.

Actually, Apple switched to Intel because PPC was not being developed aggressively enough for the Mac, and Intel offered good pricing. Apple never saw it as a way to open up the platform, with the important exception of BootCamp (which they still control tightly).

 

[dreamof3d]

Sounds like this card has some heat issues. I don't think I want all those cables and "cooling tubes" dominating the landscape in my machine. If Apple can build such a great machine, why can't the build their own great gpu's?

 

[ungraphic]

Sounds like this card has some heat issues. I don't think I want all those cables and "cooling tubes" dominating the landscape in my machine. If Apple can build such a great machine, why can't the build their own great gpu's?

Apple doesnt build/manufacture any of its own parts, they only assemble.

 

[Spades]

Yes, GPUs are better on the PC. But the GPU update cycle is arbitrary and artificial - just because newer cards come out doesn't mean the previous models work any less well than they did before....unless you automatically upgrade every time a new version of your apps come out, you don't need to follow NVIDIA or ATI's roadmaps card by card.

The problem with the cards in the Mac Pro was that they didn't work very well when they came out. The 7300GT was already old and weak and the 1900XT had quality problems. The 7300GT was so ridiculously outdated that I think some people went with it believing it would just be a temporary situation. That's what I did, went with the cheap card thinking I was going to be replacing it soon anyways.

One year later...

Incidentally, the 9800GTX performs better than the 8800GTX, but not by much. The 8800GTX is a better price for the performance, but both cards are a little expensive. It'll be interesting to see how the 9800GT and 8800GT compare.

 

[ungraphic]

heres a site dedicated to flashing PC Geforce cards to work with OS X, however, i am not sure if they resolve the whole EFI problem.

http://nvinject.free.fr/index.html

What im interested in is if the cards, when flashed, would run under OS X in a first gen. mac pro, or at least allow to boot into a mac pro while the card is still in but using a 7300 as a primary, leaving the other flashed PC just for windows.

This whole no-video card upgrade path is beyond bulls**t, FOUR f****ng months and apple still has done absolutely nothing!!!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The problem with the cards in the Mac Pro was that they didn't work very well when they came out. The 7300GT was already old and weak and the 1900XT had quality problems. The 7300GT was so ridiculously outdated that I think some people went with it believing it would just be a temporary situation. That's what I did, went with the cheap card thinking I was going to be replacing it soon anyways.

This brings up an issue that is frankly far more important than the GPU core Apple chooses - software.

The current thread has been covering an issue that has nothing to do with the 8800GT GPU but everything to do with the way Apple has chosen to develop firmware and drivers for their cards. To be fair, on the PC side more money and time is spent on this development (and more people are on it), so we can't expect Apple to produce drivers that mature as fast as Windows drivers.

But Apple has been lazy with driver development all the same. I'd rather have an 8800GT with mature drivers than a faster card with buggy software.

 

[jjahshik32]

..good one. Probably creatively jumping around in UT3. Nevertheless, I support the general opinion that Apple should care a bit more about upgradability of their non-consumer products. Even spending 5k+ every 2-3 years, if a new GPU could take off the edge, is a bit OTT.

But you guys are missing the point, the Nvidia Quadro FX kills all the cards and even the nvidia 8800gt in pro apps (what professionals uses). So in general buy the Quadro FX card and be done with it for another couple of years.

So Apple does have the high end card the Nvidia Quadro FX, yes its not cheap but this is the highest performing card out for any Pro Apps, maybe not for gaming but yes for pro apps, which the mac pro was built for in the first place.

 

[jemo07]

But you guys are missing the point, the Nvidia Quadro FX kills all the cards and even the nvidia 8800gt in pro apps (what professionals uses). So in general buy the Quadro FX card and be done with it for another couple of years.

Where is the proof to this? you are telling us that to do video editing on a system that I bought on November I need to fork another $2000+ for a card that has marginal gains over the mid solution now available? not to mention no gain if any in CS3 or Aperture

I am the impression that this card has an audience of 3D media creators. And only when you are rendering do you get to use it's full potential.

Heck, you can't even justify this car even if all want to use it for is gaming!

JM

 

[dreamof3d]

Yea, that would have really been something if a year ago when I purchased this $3.2k machine, that I had chose to go with the Nvidia Quaddro for I believe then $2750.00 more. Then comes the new Mac pro with PCIe 2.0, would this card be as usefull as all our other cards. Maybe the Quaddro from 2007 works on the new machines. I haven't seen anyone complain yet. Just imagine having that much invested in a gpu that could only live in a '06,'07 machine.

I'd be ballistic................Makes me scared to get one in the new model after socking a few more bucks away. What happens next January??????? Just buy a whole new set-up.....Sure u can

 

[Kosh66]

Where is the proof to this? you are telling us that to do video editing on a system that I bought on November I need to fork another $2000+ for a card that has marginal gains over the mid solution now available? not to mention no gain if any in CS3 or Aperture

I am the impression that this card has an audience of 3D media creators. And only when you are rendering do you get to use it's full potential.

Heck, you can't even justify this car even if all want to use it for is gaming!

JM

Correct. I don't think it would be much help for CS3 or Aperature. Stay with Geforce 8800GT or the Radeon HD2600 for what you are doing.

The Nvidia Quadro is more for viewing 3D Cad or 3D animation. And actually, for the process of 3D rendering, I believe the GPU isn't important, it's the CPU, and professionals use render farms for this.

 

[jjahshik32]

Where is the proof to this? you are telling us that to do video editing on a system that I bought on November I need to fork another $2000+ for a card that has marginal gains over the mid solution now available? not to mention no gain if any in CS3 or Aperture

I am the impression that this card has an audience of 3D media creators. And only when you are rendering do you get to use it's full potential.

Heck, you can't even justify this car even if all want to use it for is gaming!

JM

Well for one its quoted here:

"However, the Quadro FX 5600 does feature more video memory (1.5GB vs 512MB). And, according to one Maya guru, the extra memory (and superior memory management code) of the Quadro workstation cards becomes useful for frame buffering in Maya. This is especially true for redraw of multiple views of the same complex 3D model.

This has been enhanced further by Quadro FX 5600's new integrated memory allocation which allows the card to dynamically allocate on-board RAM to whatever task is at hand rather than have specific hard wired allocations. So rather than say a maximum of 40% of total on-board RAM dedicated to the texture buffer the card can ramp up and down from 80% sharing with the immediate needs of the other buffers.

And it does have a stereo 3D port which I've seen used in one scientific visualization lab for demonstrations with software that generates an animation that requires special 3D glasses to view."

http://www.barefeats.com/york2.html

And that would be professional level of course.

And a final note, if gpu doesnt matter at all to you with Aperture and CS3 that means it wouldnt matter if you have an ATI HD 2600XT or an X1900 or whatever card and you need to sell your older mac pro and fork up the extra $$ to get the new much faster 8 core harpertown beasts or wait for the Nehalem motherlords.