This is probably the 10th OS update I'm going through and the most damaging one. Following the upgrade all apps seem to have re-opened, as expected, with the exception of Notes. On a close inspection, 1.5 years worth of notes containing both client and personal sensitive data, notes, company, healthcare, interview notes, research, encrypted / unique keys and credentials were removed. Overall, probably in the range of $100k++ worth of losses. The Notes were saved locally, and not through iCloud. They were however displayed under the iCloud 'Notes' section. I tried all methods to restore the data but nothing worked so far. I've ordered an SSD for Time Machine. What are my options?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Upgrading to MacOS Ventura erased all Notes ($100k+ damages)
- Thread starter DTI
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
so... are they there in the icloud notes? and do you have a time machine backup now, or...?
call apple, get some help. but if you had a backup, you should be able to restore from that (altho, am confused when you say they're under icloud notes...)
call apple, get some help. but if you had a backup, you should be able to restore from that (altho, am confused when you say they're under icloud notes...)
nope, they were not getting uploaded in icloud, wanted it to have it stored locally because it was sensitive etc. They would appear under the iCloud category but were never uploaded. didn't have a backup of notes unfortunately, only of other data files
Question of the year.
Did you back up your Mac prior to upgrading? If not, why not?
BL.
Did you back up your Mac prior to upgrading? If not, why not?
BL.
Good question, i've never experienced any data loss before and have mentally labelled the upgrade as a very safe procedure. Reaping the rewards now
yikes. if your data was that valuable, how could you not spend $60 and setup time machine? everything has to be in (at least) 2 places, or you risk losing your data. this is not new information....
more importantly... call apple. your notes are likely still in a container file in your home library.
Things can always go wrong. The Notes could still be stored in iCloud, you just needed to encrypt them first.
The Notes database should be stored here: ~/Library/Group Containers/group.com.apple.notes but with no backup to restore, that's not going to do you much good.
the OP said the notes were not in icloud. and, unless they've all been deleted (& no reason an OS update would do that), they should be in a container. really, the OP needs to call apple. they can find them, and (if they're still there), recover them.
why would anyone not back up their data? external drives are cheap, time machine is (nearly) idiot-proof 😳
Agreed. They would be the ones to help at this point.
Exactly. One should never take the risk of assuming that all actions on a computer are seamless, harmless, and safe. One should always have backups, let alone a backup plan for any type of disaster: computer, financial, life, or otherwise.
Prior to returning to Macs, when I ran everything on Linux, I was an outlier for not having backups of my data, as at the time I subscribed to how people used to run things with MS Windows: the main drive had the OS on it, and nothing else; all other data existed on additional drives in my computer. So whenever I upgraded, I only reformatted the OS drive, and simply mounted the drives containing my data, and nothing was lost. If I needed to create backups of my data, I always kept a drive with 1.5x the size of the total space I needed for backups, and simply copied from disk to disk. Unfortunately that left everything contained within my computer, but that was an acceptable risk; I pulled the drive if I needed it, and stored it.
With Macs, I doubly protect myself: TM backups to an external SSD, and TM backups over my network to my NAS sitting on my home network. I then backup the NAS to another external SSD, and store that offsite. So if I need anything I have multiple avenues to get my data back. But prior to ANY OS upgrade, I always create a USB boot stick, reformat the drive in the Mac, and use Setup Assistant to restore my data from that TM backup.
BL.
Yes, I know because OP said they contained sensitive data. OP could have encrypted the Notes and then stored them in iCloud.
I am concerned for your clients, why are you using such a basic application for such sensitive work? And to not have a single backup is inexcusable. If I had things stored on my machine that were valued that high I would have a local backup, off-site backup and encrypted cloud backup.
I'd do the bulk of this just for my personal data alone, as that includes vital records, personal identifiable information (PII), Payment Card Industry information PCI), and Personal Health information (PHI). If banks, payment processors, and healthcare companies are required by law to keep backups of those, let alone encrypt them, especially on account of liability, why shouldn't the person contained in that data?
As for a client, especially when it comes to the loss of data, they should be happy that it is actually a data loss than a compromise of data. That actually is their saving grace. What I mean by that is that if the data was compromised and in the hands of someone else than the person doing business with them, the damages would be much much worse.
So hopefully Apple can help the OP get the data back, and then the OP invests in some sort of backup and DR plan, even if it is just Time Machine.
BL.
Last edited:
I don't understand how you had so much mission-critical data stored on your Mac locally. This is a huge mistake.
Have you heard of the 3-2-1 backup solution? Where you have three backups of something, on two different media types, with one off-site? Here's what I did with my audition videos recently—I had them on:
Have you heard of the 3-2-1 backup solution? Where you have three backups of something, on two different media types, with one off-site? Here's what I did with my audition videos recently—I had them on:
- My external SSD
- My 4 TB external
- My 1 TB external
- My HP ProLiant
- My Dell PowerEdge
Your biggest mistake, is using notes at all for mission critical data. Apple notes cannot even prevent accidental edit, no version control and easily corrupted. Even Microsoft word document collection would make more sense.
Also the mindset of thinking everything is safe while using computer is just wrong. Even backup restore can go wrong. (I just did that, fortunately the damage isn’t huge and majority of the data can either Be restored or ignored)
Now, I hope actual notes are still in the container hidden inside those library folders somewhere, and hopefully can be loaded. If not, then you are pretty much completely screwed, since that portion of the disk is easily overwritten by other stuff, plus if you use encryption, nothing can be restored from it.
Also the mindset of thinking everything is safe while using computer is just wrong. Even backup restore can go wrong. (I just did that, fortunately the damage isn’t huge and majority of the data can either Be restored or ignored)
Now, I hope actual notes are still in the container hidden inside those library folders somewhere, and hopefully can be loaded. If not, then you are pretty much completely screwed, since that portion of the disk is easily overwritten by other stuff, plus if you use encryption, nothing can be restored from it.
Others have pointed out approaches for possibly retrieving data.. but I'm going to add if you're storing credentials and sensitive data in notes, you are doing this whole thing 100% wrong.
Please rethink your data strategy going forward. Use the correct tool for the correct job. Speaking from experience - it sucks when you lose a lot of data because you simply used the wrong tool.
Notes has little in the way of data recovery, no version control, no real auditing, etc. Storing critical data there will always lead to pain.
Please rethink your data strategy going forward. Use the correct tool for the correct job. Speaking from experience - it sucks when you lose a lot of data because you simply used the wrong tool.
Notes has little in the way of data recovery, no version control, no real auditing, etc. Storing critical data there will always lead to pain.
I wouldn't recommend contacting Apple Support about this. I had a family member in a very similar situation. After an hour on the phone the guy's response was since it was data recovery-related it fell outside their scope of support.
I've since set that family member up with a Time Machine backup, like everyone else is recommending.
I've since set that family member up with a Time Machine backup, like everyone else is recommending.
My big mistake was when I was in middle school, I stored everything on thumb drives. I think you know where this is going... I accidentally threw away the USB stick that had EVERYTHING on it—notes from recording classes, old recordings of mine, etc. I learned my lesson there...
And I think @Shirasaki is absolutely right—don't trust that everything will be smooth-sailing... because it probably won't. ALWAYS make backups. Set your TM settings to make backups every hour. Do whatever's necessary to protect your data.
The one thing I continue to fail to protect are my passwords. If I ever lose access to Bitwarden, I'm DONE. I need to figure that one out.
And I think @Shirasaki is absolutely right—don't trust that everything will be smooth-sailing... because it probably won't. ALWAYS make backups. Set your TM settings to make backups every hour. Do whatever's necessary to protect your data.
The one thing I continue to fail to protect are my passwords. If I ever lose access to Bitwarden, I'm DONE. I need to figure that one out.
one person's experience with apple support isn't everyone's experience (i've had apple help with an issue where the support was excellent). and it's not data recovery, as much as it's data-locating and restoring (well, something like that). besides, what is there to lose by trying apple?
time machine, for the OP, is what's next. first let them get help with this issue... 🤔
Why on earth didn't you have back ups?
Or why on Earth would people store critical and vital information on Notes...
Take fisherking’s advice, no harm in Apple Support and they may be able to help. Even if the folder/notes in question were listed under iCloud and for some reason not syncing up to iCloud, they are likely still in a local .sql file in a container. Perhaps Ventura didn’t know what to make of a local-only folder somehow residing under iCloud and just chose to ignore it and created a new local instance of notes as part of the upgrade. Highly unlikely Ventura would just wipe out notes and leave all your other data untouched.
And if you’ve been using Time Machine, in all likelihood, the notes are recoverable.
In the odd chance Ventura did do some deleting, I have had good luck in the past with RTT R-Studio to recover deleted data even off SSDs.
And not to pile on, but doing an upgrade to a production machine with mission-critical customer data and not backing up the entire system first?
And if you’ve been using Time Machine, in all likelihood, the notes are recoverable.
In the odd chance Ventura did do some deleting, I have had good luck in the past with RTT R-Studio to recover deleted data even off SSDs.
And not to pile on, but doing an upgrade to a production machine with mission-critical customer data and not backing up the entire system first?
What would you have done if your Mac was stolen, or damaged from a fire or other accident, or just stopped working due to a hardware fault?
If the important notes were only stored on your Mac, then your only option is to attempt data recovery?
In the future consider syncing your notes with iCloud (it can be end-to-end encrypted since iOS 16.2 when turning on Advanced Data Protection), and automatically backing up to an external disc and uploading a copy offsite.
Notes and iCloud don’t provide version control, so if you made a mistake and edited a note you won’t be able to restore a previous version.
If the important notes were only stored on your Mac, then your only option is to attempt data recovery?
In the future consider syncing your notes with iCloud (it can be end-to-end encrypted since iOS 16.2 when turning on Advanced Data Protection), and automatically backing up to an external disc and uploading a copy offsite.
Notes and iCloud don’t provide version control, so if you made a mistake and edited a note you won’t be able to restore a previous version.
$100k+ in damages and saved locally only???
You could at, at the very least, saved them to a USB drive.
Always use the 3-2-1 backup rule:
*3 copies of data
*2 different media
*1 copy being off-site
While I hate this happened to you, I also have no sympathy for you. If your data was that important, you should have made sure to take measures to avoid the exact situation you’re in now.
You could at, at the very least, saved them to a USB drive.
Always use the 3-2-1 backup rule:
*3 copies of data
*2 different media
*1 copy being off-site
While I hate this happened to you, I also have no sympathy for you. If your data was that important, you should have made sure to take measures to avoid the exact situation you’re in now.
Are you sure it’s synced locally, sometimes we have notes synced with another email address.
Please check to be really sure! Do you have another email like yahoo, gmail, outlook where it can be synced there?
I just don’t understand how upgrading can only affect your notes and nothing else!
Add or remove accounts in Notes on Mac
In Notes on your Mac, add or remove your On My Mac account and internet accounts, such as iCloud, Google, and others.
support.apple.com
But I do agree with the rest, Time Machine encrypted backups are very important. I hope you do find a solution to your problem.