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Upgrading to MacOS Ventura erased all Notes ($100k+ damages)
- Thread starter DTI
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how is that relevant to the topic at hand?
I definitely encourage you to setup a TimeMachine/TimeCapsule backup system: A simple xxxTb external USB drive and the setting of TimeMachine is super simple and has become very reliable (much more than in 2010 when I switched from Win to Mac). The availability and simplicity of this sytem for mac has been one of the main reasons for my switch ! Good luck with your data recovery!
Every computer's software load is different so things can and do break, nor can Apple or Microsoft envisage every single permutation.
I have the same stance I generally don't upgrade macOS until the end of the cycle before upgrading. Some telling tale in the OP, when I conduct an OS upgrade I close all apps, disconnect all external drives etc. reboot then update. It's kind of old school, but it works and I kind of think that's what the providers expect and likely test against.
I've never had a bad update by following this mantra, including my creaking 2011 15" MBP that was last clean installed at the factory. Not looking to throw shade, as per the OP "Following the upgrade all apps seem to have re-opened" is a red flag as having apps open during an OS upgrade only serves to evermore complicate the process.
Apple's failure is not to advise the user to backup prior to macOS upgrade so they can roll back if needs be...
Q-6
From my point of view, this conclusion is right in most cases.
But in this specific case with Apple Notes, this is clearly wrong:
I had data loss in Apple Notes caused by one of the early-cycle macOS Updates (.0 or .1). This happened although all Notes were synced via iCloud and there were recent Time Machine Backups of everything - but in this configuration, in fact Notes are simply not backed up by Time Machine (which carries the argument that a backup is missing here to absurdity) and the severe bug that eliminated my Notes during the faulty iCloud sync did its destructive work without me having a chance to regain access to my data anyhow.
So, no, this is by no means a user fault. This is Apple's fault, by no less than 100%.
That's certainly right - although I think as certain there are phases where upgrading means quite high exposure to severe risks such as data loss (currently .0 and .1 macOS releases), phases with medium risks (currently around .2 - .4 releases) and phases of greater maturity where there are always still a huge amount of bugs you'll encounter on a daily basis, but whose potential harm is less severe (currently around .5 and up).
That's certainly true, I'll give you that.
Even more, that means that users should be aware of what they're doing - and not install betas or early releases (which are often not more stable that betas, at least for Apple's OSes of the past few years) if they heavily depend on the reliability of the system and data.
Good thing that the newer OS revisions introduce a new independence of important security fixes from feature releases - I think this will benefit those which have to rely on their systems and cannot afford to play games like the .0 / .1 russian roulette we've had lately...
It can help people here to assess the scope of the problem and provide more tailored solutions. For example, a business subject to government compliance requirements, such as in health care and in financial services, will need to follow a different path than a sole proprietor running, say, a laundromat.
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1. an OS upgrade does not delete user files.
2. not meant to be condescending, but... upgrades do not 'try to format an external drive'... unless you tried to install the OS on those drives. so, it does seem to be user error.
3. there are always bugs; but (fwiw, i did freelance mac support for 15 years in nyc): see 1. & 2.
4. if something was wrong with your mac hardware, that is not a bug; bugs exist in software. but if there was a hardware issue, good that apple dealt with it.
5. am impressed that you never have 'user errors', which earns you tier 3 support immediately. 21 years and never any mistakes! even i can't say that (and i say a lot) 🤔
re: 2. i've never seen an OS upgrade try to reformat a drive it wasn't pointed at. but, if you say it was a bug, i accept your answer (you were there, i wasn't).
re: 3. the hardware, and the OSes, get more complex over time; also more capable. so it's hardly surprising that there are more bugs.
yet (with some bumps in the road), my experience with ventura is pretty great (most importantly, on my work mac), and i wouldn't go back to a previous OS/era, for any reason.
anyway, sorry you've had so many issues, and respect that you know your way thru them 👍
re: 3. the hardware, and the OSes, get more complex over time; also more capable. so it's hardly surprising that there are more bugs.
yet (with some bumps in the road), my experience with ventura is pretty great (most importantly, on my work mac), and i wouldn't go back to a previous OS/era, for any reason.
anyway, sorry you've had so many issues, and respect that you know your way thru them 👍
Once you get that data recovered either by Apple or a specialist data recovery company, if you continue to use notes, I would enable the notes in iCloud and change your back up to the new, advanced data protection back up from Apple, which would encrypt all of the notes And you would have them across all of your Apple devices, encrypted and ready to go. I would also invest in something like a IronKey.
Sensitive information that you don't want in the cloud can be put into an encrypted disk image (Using disk Utility), then the encrypted disk image is put into the cloud. It's not as safe as not in the cloud but it does represent a good-faith effort to protect sensitive data.
OS updates have always been solid for me, equally I follow what I say right or wrong. OS is now far more complex. Seems a sensible precaution to go for the update with no third party apps running.
I don't need the headache the OP has, nor will as the systems are backed up, equally I don't want to waste time reverting for the sake of being lazy. Never had issue so either lucky or what I'm saying works.
Q-6
A huge number of responses justifiably say that he should have had backups. Could someone who has actually done it give the basic steps for restoring Notes from a backup?
A few years ago I deleted an important Note, and then had finger trouble recovering it from "Recently Deleted" and managed to delete it from there as well. My Notes were on iCloud and I had Time Machine and CCC clone backups, but I never managed to recover that note.
Notes are not like other types of data. There is no Notes folder in ~/Library, like there is for Mail, Contacts and Calendars. At that time I believe they were buried in an sqlite3 database in a container And I found a few fragments of text there, but no clean restore. Maybe it is all different now. Hence my question ....how do you restore Notes?
A few years ago I deleted an important Note, and then had finger trouble recovering it from "Recently Deleted" and managed to delete it from there as well. My Notes were on iCloud and I had Time Machine and CCC clone backups, but I never managed to recover that note.
Notes are not like other types of data. There is no Notes folder in ~/Library, like there is for Mail, Contacts and Calendars. At that time I believe they were buried in an sqlite3 database in a container And I found a few fragments of text there, but no clean restore. Maybe it is all different now. Hence my question ....how do you restore Notes?
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No idea, equally I wouldn't put any critical data into the app for that sole reason... I think of notes as being like scrap paper, handy but not for real purpose...
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I have almost never had a problem in OSX. All my problems were in the PreOSX days.
Recently moved up to Monterey on my M1 MBP for the low power mode. Ventura is in the far distant future, if I see any advancement. Same I keep the SW image simple & lean. If I want to explore and experiment I have plenty of older Mac's to play with
For me has to be a portable, tend to keep a lot of data on external SSD's as can then work between macOS & Windows with ease. OS updates always cautious, especially on systems that deliver revenue. As per the old adage if "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"...
Q-6
Ventura works great on my M1 Air. It's a safe upgrade at this point. It was atrocious at first and reminded me why I wait at least a few months before upgrading.Recently moved up to Monterey on my M1 MBP for the low power mode. Ventura is in the far distant future, if I see any advancement. Same I keep the SW image simple & lean. If I want to explore and experiment I have plenty of older Mac's to play with
For me has to be a portable, tend to keep a lot of data on external SSD's as can then work between macOS & Windows with ease. OS updates always cautious, especially on systems that deliver revenue. As per the old adage if "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"...
Q-6
I'll look at Ventura at the end of the development cycle as is simply a safer bet. Done with being a beta tester for Apple...
What Apple should do is revert to a 24 month cycle for the desktop OS and allow the dev's time to iron out all the crinkles, but IOS and all...
Q-6
Nothing wrong with that. I'm not quick to beta test anymore either. I don't like when things break.
No. They won't do that. Because that would be logical and make tons of sense.
It still has bugs. The alarm clock for example does not work when the Mac is asleep.
all OSes, at any given moment, have bugs. hence the endless procession of updates, betas........