Upgrading to MacOS Ventura erased all Notes ($100k+ damages)

[UltimateSyn]

Not sure why you'd be storing all of that information locally without any backups.

"Why would I carry life insurance? I've never needed it before!"

 

[4389842]

encrypted / unique keys and credentials were removed.

Sorry, but who keeps unique passwords or keys in _Notes_. To begin with you have keychain or services like 1Pass. Secondly, having a system of backups _before_ doing major activities on a computer system is one of the basics. You cannot possibly hold the vendor accountable: Their OS updates have to run on literal millions of machines, all likely slightly different. It is probably not nice to hear but this is on you…

 

[TrenttonY]

It’s sounds like the reason it’s under ‘iCloud’ and not ‘On My Mac’ is because you initially had iCloud Notes enabled at one time, but disabled it, and then kept creating new notes in the ‘iCloud’ section of the Notes app.

You should’ve enabled the ‘On My Mac’ setting in the Notes.app preferences, and manually dragged all the notes from the ‘iCloud’ section to it. Doing this would guarantee your data was being stored locally.

When updating, macOS probably glitched out with the whole — ‘in ‘iCloud’ but doesn’t have iCloud Notes enabled thing’ and declared it as “null”. Just a theory.

And for people talking about data recovery, doesn’t modern Macs have TRIM enabled by default? I’ve heard people say, this technology prevents ANY data from being recovered when deleted. I would imagine this would include both intentionally AND unintentionally deletions?

 

[elvisimprsntr]

3-2-1 backup strategy.

 

[ikir]

nope, they were not getting uploaded in icloud, wanted it to have it stored locally because it was sensitive etc. They would appear under the iCloud category but were never uploaded. didn't have a backup of notes unfortunately, only of other data files
View attachment 2138774

This is ignorance, you should use iCloud with sensitive data and if you are paranoid you needed a Time Machine backup it is your fault not everyone else

 

[Danfango]

This is plain negligence on the part of OP. If you’re running a business without suitable data security and contingency plans in place I have little sympathy

 

[Queen6]

Good question, i've never experienced any data loss before and have mentally labelled the upgrade as a very safe procedure. Reaping the rewards now

Bottom line is software breaks and computers fail. If anyone isn't backed it should be on your priority list. My own data has considerable worth therefore it's across two platforms, multiple computers, backed up on external drives and third party end to end encrypted Cloud.

Even if I just had family pictures a handful documents I'd still back up...

Q-6

 

[DTI]

Thank you everyone! Lesson learned, definitely my fault. Got too soft and trusting. Most client files / data is safe, and was automatically being backed-up in AWS S3. it's just the notes containing documentation, credentials, keys, PII etc. Tried to get something from NotesV7.storedata and NoteStore.sqlite but no breakthrough so far. Used several data recovery tools but no luck so far, these files are shown as they are in both cases, and the deleted ones might have been overwritten already. Most password are stored in the keychain and some on 1pass.

- Apple support could not do anything since the notes were not stored in iCloud and no backup was provided. They can't seem to be able to do more than I can
- @TrenttonY might be correct on this. Should have encrypted them and stored them in iCloud
- Any version controlled notes apps that you recommend?
- Might take a few months to recover all data but at least I'll have a much more robust process this time around

 

[Danfango]

Use macpass for storing other people’s credentials.

Use text files for storing notes. (I use VScode to edit them). If you need version control use git.

Keep both the macpass database and notes in iCloud and off site backups to S3

 

[Shirasaki]

Send your drive to Drive Savers. I’d call them NOW! They are very good and have a cooperative arrangement with Apple but it will cost you around $2K.

They recovered a bunch of FCP stuff for me once and they only charge if you get back what you need.

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If the data is encrypted in any fashion, the chance of restore is next to zero. Also these notes are stored in mac data drive, which has tons of read and writes. By now I'd assume all of them are long gone.

 

[stevec618]

Backblaze is worth a look if you want affordable off-site backup.

 

[MBAir2010]

Last decade apple received much scrutiny over several celebrities having
their birthday suits iPhone iCloud photos go public.
so Apple decided to have. stronger security platform
and made the 2 factor security program-plan.

meanwhile these idiot celebrities used their birthdate
or a very easy password, and the hackers with much time on their hands
had easy access to these photos.

I do remember the media blamed apple, and even irked me how insecure apple was, and complained here about this.
but was I wrong, I can even access my 2018 iCloud photos on an older account until last month.

it so easy to blame someone else instead of the mirror.

 

[JackRabbitJobs]

You had no solid backup strategy for such important stuff? That’s an expensive life lesson for you.

 

[MauiPa]

synopsis: I didn't really know what I was doing, it must be someone else's fault. Always backup, I use the Cloudi it is so easy and have never lost anything. If you store locally, make sure you have a backup before you do any major update involving your disk. Especially, if these nets are so valuable as you so, they were't worth backing up on a $100 hard drive.
Note for next time, the instructions clearly say make sure you are backup up

 

[Unami]

That sucks. I hope you can recover the damage you did. As others said, use a 3-2-1 backup strategy for files you don't want to lose. Or live with the risk.

Your HD is still working, so even if the data was overwritten, a rescue expert might be able to restore it for a few thousand bucks. Just don't mess around with it too much if it isn't where others said that you'll find that container.

Especially SSDs can and will fail after some time without prior warning, so even if you didn't make an OS-upgrade, your data had a good chance of becoming irrecoverable lost some day. You can probably be quite thankful to the universe that there's still a good chance to get it back.

 

[orionquest]

Try stickies sounds right up your ally. 👍

 

[jopiek]

I did an update some years ago (also major OS version). The proces did not check for free disk space and that resulted in a useless system (could not finish upgrade half way through the proces). I then reverted to a backup. Always make backups, and it is super easy with Macs (in contrast to the Redmond OS).

 

[Danfango]

Backblaze is worth a look if you want affordable off-site backup.

Very very very bad experience with backblaze.

Check Trustpilot reviews for them. I've seen the same issues as some of the folk on there.

 

[kevcube]

- Any version controlled notes apps that you recommend?

you're missing the point here.

notes apps should be used as scratchpads. there are full-featured notes apps like Notion with cloud databases, version control and more, but even still, do NOT use a "notes" app for sensitive, high value data.

 

[Shirasaki]

They mention they can get data back from encrypted SSDs as they work directly with Apple, so he’s got a fighting chance.

overwritten would kill it anyways. those files are not going to be around for long.
unless OP uses a complete different device to ask for help and never power up his MacBook again, then maybe.
even so, depending on when he realises the mistake, assuming the partial notes database can be restored, it might still not be usable anyways.
OP can try, but the chance of recovery is very slim.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote in post 1:
"What are my options?"

Your "options" were to have a good backup system in place BEFORE you attempted the upgrade.

Preferably one or more cloned backups created using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.

That "$100k loss" is entirely on... you.

Go forth from this day and learn, a sadder -- but wiser -- man.

 

[w5jck]

Good question, i've never experienced any data loss before and have mentally labelled the upgrade as a very safe procedure. Reaping the rewards now

Well, if you have $100K+ in Notes value on a computer, you should have backed those up to multiple backup drives. I can't imagine having only one copy. SSDs and HDDs die, so always have multiple backups of essential files.

 

[ElRojito]

If you’re concerned about third parties, you should look into self-hosting a bitwarden instance in the future.

 

[fisherking]

The OP made a mistake: he didn’t back it up. We all know that. However, upgrading the OS shouldn’t delete anything. The OP is correct to be upset with Apple. Losing data isn’t acceptable.

When I upgraded my 2013 Mac Pro to (I think) Mavericks it reformatted my external drives and I lost both the primary and the backup. I had to spend nearly $2K for Drivesavers and they only got back some of the files.

Apple OS upgrades have become more and more problematic lately and it’s really unprofessional. I lost my Notes when upgrading to Big Sur but was able to get it back from iCloud.

I now wait a full OS cycle before upgrading so Apple can fix all the bugs. For anyone in a professional environment, your computer is your income and Apple needs to be more responsible about getting these bugs worked out before release. This is doable. I’ve been an Apple user since the 80s and Apple used to be the standard for stable upgrades.

yes, upgrading the OS should not delete anything. but how is this apple's fault? the OP did not have a backup. anyone without their files backed up is clearly stating: "i don't care if i lose data".

how did your OS upgrade reformat your external drives? that would also not happen unless (sorry) user error. the OS will only install where you've pointed it.

you can wait as many OS cycles as you want; there will always be bugs, there's no perfect moment to upgrade.

it's not the 80s anymore, and with all the variables now out there (the hardware we use, the configurations, the apps we run, how we use our macs, etc), it's amazing anything works at all 🤔

 

[saudor]

yikes. i would never trust any notes application for anything important. i need concrete files that can be readily backed up and restored to put me at ease. heck i’d prefer a protected word document over notes