US Probes UK's Apple Encryption Demand for Possible Treaty Violation

[Rainbow Apple]

Very true. I use all the default Apple apps. They’re free and easy to use and have enough functionality for me.

That's the opposite of my approach! I avoid the default Apple apps, because they're iOS only, and I want something that works everywhere. Also, because Apple Maps is infamous for messing up (or at least, it was soon after it came out). But then, I'm hardly a mainstream user.

 

[0049190]

No, never seen one. Yes, many Apple users have one (I do, too), but I've never used it and see no reason to. Additionally, the web version SUCKS, and since greater than 60% of iPhone users are Windows/PC/Chromebook users, it's not exactly handy.

I agree the web version sucks. I see your point if 60% of iPhone users use Windows/Chrome. Makes sense for them to use Outlook or Gmail.

 

[cocky jeremy]

This is getting interesting. Brb, heading shop for more popcorn!

Does the UK allow you to buy popcorn, or is that illegal too?

 

[txscott]

For those out of the loop, this act was created by the previous Conservative government who were happily taking payments from Putin.

The reason the current government acted on it is because it's in law. Tories did it cause they wanted control, Labour are doing it cause they have to.

I fully agree that Apple should just threaten to pull out of the UK market and watch on as parliament go into panic mode and amend the ridiculous law.

As a point of clarification, Labor has a 167 seat working majority in Parliament and could have repealed or amended the law easily. That they did not indicates they're no different than the Tories as power seekers.

 

[burgman]

This is why Tim Cook has been cozying up to Donald and donated to his inauguration.

Biden's team was anti-Apple and anti-big tech all the way. They wouldn't/didn't do anything to protect Apple against EU.

This isn't a political statement. Just an observation.

So the new Trumper narrative is the creator/leader of the five eyes cartel are now the white hats? Remember all the increasing threats against Apple to give FBI and others a backdoor? Then suddenly poof radio silence? Think NSA, the alphabet soup of intel/law enforcement agencies and Congress just suddenly said. Never mind Apple we love you just as you are. I love the smell of Kool Aid in the morning.

 

[verdi1987]

It never made sense to me how one country could demand global access to the data of citizens of other nations. And what if laws in another nation-state conflict with the UK law?

 

[verdi1987]

Here's what the 1st Trump administration Justice Dept. said about the CLOUD act..

"The United States enacted the CLOUD Act to speed access to electronic information held by U.S.-
based global providers that is critical to our foreign partners’ investigations of serious crime,
ranging from terrorism and violent crime to sexual exploitation of children and cybercrime. Our
foreign partners have long expressed concerns that the mutual legal assistance process is too
cumbersome to handle their growing needs for this type of electronic evidence in a timely
manner. The assistance requests the United States receives often seek electronic information
related to individuals or entities located in other countries, and the only connection of the
investigation to the United States is that the evidence happens to be held by a U.S.-based global
provider. The CLOUD Act is designed to permit our foreign partners that have robust protections
for privacy and civil liberties to enter into executive agreements with the United States to obtain
access to this electronic evidence, wherever it happens to be located, in order to fight serious
crime and terrorism."

https://www.justice.gov/d9/press-releases/attachments/2019/04/10/department_of_justice_cloud_act_white_paper_2019_04_10_final_0.pdf

IMO, that overview doesn't make it sound likely that the CLOUD Act could be used to invalidate what the UK is doing. In other words, the CLOUD Act was not created to increase protections against data requests.

Not sure, but maybe this part:

(3) the agreement requires that, with respect to any order that is subject to the agreement—
(A) the foreign government may not intentionally target a United States person or a person located in the United States, and shall adopt targeting procedures designed to meet this requirement;
(B) the foreign government may not target a non-United States person located outside the United States if the purpose is to obtain information concerning a United States person or a person located in the United States

 

[DougieS]

Does the UK allow you to buy popcorn, or is that illegal too?

Luckily yes... for now.

 

[california_kid]

Of course UK knew this was illegal.Which is why the back door was "secret", well duh.....

Of course US got caught red handed when they were bugging foreign dignitaries phones without their knowledge. Come to think of it, maybe all of those were iPhones. NOW WE HAVE A STORY!!!!

 

[verdi1987]

Email is very different -- almost everyone brings that to the table from some part of their existing work/personal life

And almost everyone uses Google as a verb, despite Google not wanting us to.

 

[verdi1987]

No, people are arrested for inciting hatred to others. I guess being free to suggest that people should be setting fire to hotels with asylum seekers inside is part of your constitution, but in the UK and probably most of Europe such offences are illegal.

Speech that provokes an immediate unlawful action is not protected speech in the U.S.

 

[california_kid]

And almost everyone uses Google as a verb, despite Google not wanting us to.

Cool! Did not know that. Had to google it though.

 

[Will Co]

the USA can lend you chaps an Elon, after he cleans up 'merika.
he might want a quid or 2.....

Hmm. I think that would be the hardest of all hard passes. Thanks for offering, though. Oh wait - I see what you did there - trying to offload him onto someone else.... smart.

 

[Will Co]

Speech that provokes an immediate unlawful action is not protected speech in the U.S.

The current President seems to think otherwise, since he clearly advocated and tried to provoke immediate unlawful action in the encouraging of his supporters to storm the Capitol building in 2021 and then tried to use the free speech argument to defend his comments.

 

[MBAir2010]

Hmm. I think that would be the hardest of all hard passes. Thanks for offering, though. Oh wait - I see what you did there - trying to offload him onto someone else.... smart.

I hereby personally have nothing to do with any of this....just trying to salvage some sense of this mess.

 

[Will Co]

Ironically it’s the governments of the US and UK and other western countries that are particularly good at breaking into and making companies allow access to user data.

In Russia and other places, Apples Advanced Data Protection is still available etc

I think this is because the US and its allies have the most advanced and powerful security services.

But they need to really get the balance right between access to users private data and national security and crime prevention. It’s a difficult balance. Go too far one way and you have problems.

It will really require agreement amoungst blocs of countries for it to be effective and fair.

I agree with you, but in Russia, it's very difficult to get hold of VPN capabilities on an iPhone without jailbreaking, because those apps are banned. Russia's surveillance apparatus is just as active as the UK and US, they just go about snooping the data in a different way, i.e. off the wire, instead of off the server.

But I take your point. It's no secret that the US and UK have collaborated for decades in developing services that can monitor data and telephony on an industrial scale. Have a search around the term ECHELON if you're interested.

UKUSA agreements for military technology and information sharing run very deep and go way back to WW2. We see a lot of political crap floating around on the surface and in the news, but I suspect that the mechanisms that have been in place for a very long time are still working well, and passing an large amount of data between the two countries.

 

[verdi1987]

The current President seems to think otherwise, since he clearly advocated and tried to provoke immediate unlawful action in the encouraging of his supporters to storm the Capitol building in 2021 and then tried to use the free speech argument to defend his comments.

He doesn’t believe laws apply to him in general.

 

[MBAir2010]

The current President seems to think otherwise, since he clearly advocated and tried to provoke immediate unlawful action in the encouraging of his supporters to storm the Capitol building in 2021 and then tried to use the free speech argument to defend his comments.

the truth is that Trump never said or did that, the media claimed he did as the opposition.
my neighbors and others I met or know who were there that weekend- Tuesday
were there that day and saw some buses loaded of idiots they never saw that week
and dropped of near the capitol as they were dressed like Vikings and angry!
none affiliated with trump were told to storm.

that day was a mess here and hopefully the USA can find out who proved the attack
again that probably won't happen as this globe needs "Songs For A Nervous Planet"

personally I wish we could turn off a switch and stop all this useless madness going on,
there are some much to admire like trees, nature and good natured people.
but either some zillionaire or committee thrives on despair.

 

[Will Co]

He doesn’t believe laws apply to him in general.

Too right. In fact I think he thinks most things don't apply to him. Laws, decency, fairness, mercy, generosity, kindness, truthfulness, loyalty, trustworthiness... It's kind of sad that he associates all of these traits as weaknesses, when they are the things that have truly made America great.

 

[Will Co]

the truth is that Trump never said or did that, the media claimed he did as the opposition.
my neighbors and others I met or know who were there that weekend- Tuesday
were there that day and saw some buses loaded of idiots they never saw that week
and dropped of near the capitol as they were dressed like Vikings and angry!
none affiliated with trump were told to storm.

that day was a mess here and hopefully the USA can find out who proved the attack
again that probably won't happen as this globe needs "Songs For A Nervous Planet"

personally I wish we could turn off a switch and stop all this useless madness going on,
there are some much to admire like trees, nature and good natured people.
but either some zillionaire or committee thrives on despair.

I think the whole world saw and heard what he said and did that day, by live broadcast radio and TV, through social media - his own words - and they also witnessed the actions of his supporters in direct response to those words. The House of Representatives voted to impeach him for his actions and words, with supporters of the impeachment including Republicans, and not just the opposition.

It was a mess of a day, I agree with you. You're of course free to hold your own opinion about who was behind the events. I cannot speak for the rest of the world, but I have never met a single soul outside USA who believes the whole thing was anything other than a result of the direct actions of Trump.

I'm also with you in your wish that this would all stop. Those trees, nature and good people that you admire and cleave too, they need a government that works for them and a planet to live on. The zillionaire and his sidekick are the problem, in my opinion.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And almost everyone uses Google as a verb, despite Google not wanting us to.

💯
I even say it when I actually do all my searching on Kagi!
ha!

 

[MBAir2010]

they need a government that works for them and a planet to live on. The zillionaire and his sidekick are the problem, in my opinion.

Those trees, nature and good people don't really need a government
as they flourish without human intervention or a budget!

anyways take care, the WHU_LEI football match started,
another convoluted mess as still I try to filter out the VAR and crud to enjoy!

 

[MacBH928]

Don't trust those corps. Use zero-knowledge and FOSS services. You can find list of alternatives to cloud storage here

Home

Established in 2021, Privacy Guides is the most popular & trustworthy non-profit resource to find privacy tools and learn about protecting your digital life.

www.privacyguides.org

Best Privacy Tools & Software Guide in in 2025

The most reliable website for privacy tools since 2015. Software, services, apps and privacy guides to fight surveillance with encryption for better internet privacy.

www.privacytools.io

 

[DocMultimedia]

Speech that provokes an immediate unlawful action is not protected speech in the U.S.

Unless of course you say you will hang someone. That's protected under our current system here in America.

 

[verdi1987]

Unless of course you say you will hang someone. That's protected under our current system here in America.

Inciting the crowd to hang the VP would have been part of the revised indictment, but we know how things played out.