USB-C. Huh?

[Voley]

If the last Retina MBP would sell today with an updated Skylake Chipset, a modern AMD GPU as offered today, and one TB3 port, this thing would sell like crazy.

This year model is already selling like crazy. It beats all competition without effort.
If they kept the same design as last year, this forum would be filled with "Tim Cook's apple doesnt innovate any more", "I'm switching to Dell because apple is old ****" and so on.
No matter what they do, the place will be filled with hate.

 

[pmau]

This year model is already selling like crazy. It beats all competition without effort.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I know lots of people who ordered and returned.

If I recall correctly, Apples statement addressed the preorders that were much higher.
I'm sure they sold a lot, but it's not the most pre-ordered Laptop overall, it's just a high number based on Apples previous numbers.

But we will never know and it's probably a moot point.

 

[thesaint024]

Not wanting to quote everything you just wrote, let me just add that I enjoy an open discussion that does not start with "You are wrong", etc. I appreciate it, since it's not common theses days 😉

I would really enjoy seeing versatile USB-C connected devices, but right now it's just not practical.
Apple has "over innovated" this model, removing lots of features that are still needed today.

And here's the point: They simply removed the options for last years model/

If the last Retina MBP would sell today with an updated Skylake Chipset, a modern AMD GPU as offered today, and one TB3 port, this thing would sell like crazy.

I personally know at least 5 people who returned their brand new 15" model just because the additional speed is not justifying the price and the limited flexibility.

It is great hardware, it will be the standard in two years, but people like me are disappointed and have to skip this vision of a future mobile computing workplace.

I don"t hate the new model, and besides the battery and price discussion, I honestly think nobody really does.
It's just the complete removal of alternatives with decent BTO options that causes most of the negative press.

I'm certain that you yourself might as well enjoy a USB port to use your old iPhone cables, your USB3 SSD or any other external device you might have purchased in the last two years.

I know you still can, but I truly believe Apple was arrogant and people do know they can get better specs for way less money. Not the build quality, I agree that Apple is at the very top of the game there.

But specs and pricing is not the best Apple could have delivered and I do believe they know.

Again, thank you for your open discussion.

Agreed, there should be more rational discussions like this, but I have more faith in world peace than that. I am not going to address tech specs because they are and have been good enough for me, even though this is super fast in real world use for me. Just continuing this USB-c thing. This may be TL;DR but...

I've stated in other posts that one of the wishes I had for the new MBP was a single usb-a port. So I agree, that would've made that more convenient. However, my problem was solved by one $4 adapter that I carry around with my power adapter when mobile. Yes, less than elegant, but I have little disruption because I rarely use it. I've used it once in the month I've had the new MBP because I needed to plug a flashdrive, just once. I don't think I'll even need that going forward since I have since bought a flashdrive that has both usb-c and a. I am carrying this one inch adapter now "just in case". What I'm not carrying is up to a half pound of ports that I will likely never use. I can customize my travel kit based on what I'll need. For me, unlikely anything more than a power cable and the one inch, $4 adapter. But if I need to take photos on vacation and backup, I can just bring a SD dongle. If I need to do a presentation, I will bring a video dongle. No more no less. If I get caught with my pants down and don't have the right dongle, I'll take my chances that I can either borrow one or buy one within an hour.

I've heard someone else wish that Apple had just updated the guts this year. That would basically be a refresh of the 15 rMBP + TB3. Apple would likely have gotten even more flack for not being innovative. Instead they completely redesigned the MBP, much to my delight since I have been waiting for a new design. They have made this the size of an Air while retaining most of the Pro abilities. That's pretty amazing and innovative in my mind. I was waiting for an Air refresh and I got this MBP that is more or less equivalent in size now. I see this as being very underrated and the market and Mac fanboys turned haters will eventually realize how much MBP16 pivoted the industry.

If anyone's workflow is too disrupted by the port situation, no one will blame them for holding off a year or two. I don't think I've read a single comment about someone making a bad choice by NOT buying a new MBP. But I think some of the arguments I'm reading against the usb-c revolution are quite weak though. USB-c will not be THE standard in a year? Carrying around 10 dongles like those dramatic youtube videos? You don't have to be an Apple fanboy to see that these two things aren't true. I am personally excited by this standard. It is the holy grail of ports - totally flexibile, fast, backwards compatible, (eventually) cheap, can be engineered to do previously unprecedented capabilities like plugging in a dGPU. As a COMPUTER fan, not just Apple, I have to be looking forward to what the industry will bring.

I read a professional review about usb-c and he brought up things I never thought of and highlighted some benefits. Charging both ways, i.e. using one laptop to charge another! Sharing cables with phones and other common devices. Power bank charging. People who are actually down on the standard is odd. Not being ready for it in your workflow is one thing. Hating on usb-c standard and it's future? That sounds a lot like rationale more than reality. Some people may be shut out of this future until they upgrade, so hating makes one feel better? You clearly showed why it just might not be ready for prime time for you until you figure out a adapter/cable solution for your workflow. That is totally reasonable.

Dude, I am just excited about this new world if you can't tell, Apple related or not. If you've lived with laptops up to this point, you know the solutions just sucked (both PC and Mac). USB-c is tailor made for mobile. All the possibilities will become more apparent as time passes. As soon as someone sees the same benefits to workflow that I have (sudden click or ding!), I'd be happy just to see them excited about it too.
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Honestly, I'm not sure. I know lots of people who ordered and returned.

If I recall correctly, Apples statement addressed the preorders that were much higher.
I'm sure they sold a lot, but it's not the most pre-ordered Laptop overall, it's just a high number based on Apples previous numbers.

But we will never know and it's probably a moot point.

Yes we will see at next earnings call, but the indicators so far are showing this is selling pretty well. I'll leave it at that, and we will just have to wait and see.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

My source is logical deduction based on personal observation...

It would've been wiser if you refrained from generalized ex cathedra statement (i.e. "you are referring to a small group who feel they need all possible ports built into their laptops") when it is not based on a wordlwide survey, but on your personal observation which is objectively limited to your micro-environmental experience.

 

[thesaint024]

It would've been wiser if you refrained from generalized ex cathedra statement (i.e. "you are referring to a small group who feel they need all possible ports built into their laptops") when it is not based on a wordlwide survey, but on your personal observation which is objectively limited to your micro-environmental experience.

Really dude? Thanks for the contribution. I just laid out my rational deduction and you nerd police my semantics? Have a nice day.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Really dude? Thanks for the contribution. I just laid out my rational deduction and you nerd police my semantics? Have a nice day.

Contribution was expected of you in the form of providing a reliable source that backs your flat statement.
Rational deduction ≠ relevant source, in this case.
Have a nice day you too, "dude".

 

[jerryk]

True, but that percentage is about to increase exponentially as practically all new Android devices have USB-C connections and with Apple's move to USB-C on their computers, it is extremely likely that the next iPhone will be USB-C as well.

Hopefully the next iPhone will have USB-C. It is amazing to me that the iPhone 7 does not have USB-C. If the next iPhone does have USB-C instead of lightning it will reinforce my decision not to get the iPhone 7. Taking away the audio jack and still leaving Lightning made no sense. Taking away the audio jack and going to USB-C makes more sense because of the Android adapters and cables already out on the market, and you can could charge the thing from the new MacBook directly.

 

[dyn]

I work at an office, but we have no assign desks. Sometimes I need a VGA connector for a conferencing system, if I work on projects on the corporate network I"m required to use Ethernet for security reasons.

I need a USB headset to answer calls at my desk, I need HDMI to connect to my desk monitor.

The point is, we don't need these ports all the time, but shuffling adapters and fighting incompatibilities is definitely a big step backwards.

That sounds like unassigned desks done wrong to me. There are many offices like yours which do not have the issues you describe. That's because they actually designed the entire office as well as the business for this. That means that they use a standardised workplace which includes desk, chair as well as keyboard, mouse, display, phone and a docking station. Conference rooms are also included and provide one or multiple systems that will allow for wireless connection to the presentation screen or simply use a HDMI connection. And all of their processes are geared towards this new kind of setup.

What Apple describes as great flexibility is not for people who need to focus on their work and have everything ready with as little hassle as possible.

What Apple describes can all be undone when the office isn't designed properly when it comes to IT and other facilities which seems to be the case at your office. If you don't have a properly design then unassigned desks are a big pita.

Everything else is great for checking mail in a boring meeting, our walking over to your colleague with your MacBook at hand, but it's not at all the future.

You are correct about that. This is how it works today for Apple and how it has been working for almost 2 decades for the other brands (HP, Dell, IBM/Lenovo, etc.). Apple is actually quite late to the game, they've joined the rest when they implemented Thunderbolt (previously there were some docking solutions but they weren't as great and universal).

Unfortunately many companies think that all they have to do is not assign the desks but they couldn't be more wrong. You actually need to change a lot of things including the equipment, IT (not just hardware but also software and services), office space, scheduling (it is not uncommon that you need to make a reservation in order to work in a certain spot) as well as various business processes (not everybody will be in the same area so how are you going to cope with that?). You can't blame Apple for not designing the office for proper use of unassigned desks; the only one to blame here is the company itself.

When it comes to unassigned desks the USB-C connector is the one you want to have. This one port is on every brand (HP, Dell, Lenovo, Apple) and thus you can order 1 type of docking station that you can use for all the various models and brands of notebooks floating around the office. The only requirement the notebook has to meet is having a USB-C port. If you make sure that the dock uses USB instead of Thunderbolt 3, the amount of compatible devices rises even further. For the company this means far lower costs and a higher flexibility (you don't have to buy several types of docking stations and create pools of workspaces for notebook brands (to give an example) which means a more efficient use of office space).

It also means that presentation hardware like ClickShare is now compatible with notebooks, tablets and smartphones and will work almost exactly the same on all those devices. Currently you can't do that because ClickShare uses the USB-A connector and thus cannot be used on tablets and smartphones (they do have apps for those). This means they can use their own proprietary protocol on their own ad-hoc network instead of everybody needing to connect to the same network manually.

 

[OldGuyTom]

I have no qualms with USB-C, in fact it sounds like it's a great port. The problem is with the lack of other ports on the new MacBook Pro's. If I check an online store I see thousands, literally thousands, of USB 3 and (and earlier) devices. I see maybe one or two USB C devices, then a lot of adapters. Essentially, to use the new Pro with a system, I have to use an adapter or go out and buy new equipment....and there isn't much available. IMHO there's something seriously flawed with a unit where the only way you can use it is with adapters. IMHO, this is an extraordinarily bad design....no, not bad...terrible!

Let's take a look at what was on two MacBook Pro equivalents in history. Here's the PowerBook Titanium:

• WiFi (optional)
• 1000 Base-T ethernet
• 2 USB ports
• 1 Firewire port
• 1 display port
• Audio out
• Audio in
• Type I or II CardBus slot
• Optical drive
• Power adapter port

Now let's take a look at the first 15" MacBook Pro:

• WiFi
• Bluetooth
• 1000 Base-T ethernet
• 2 USB
• 1 Firewire
• 1 display port
• Audio in
• Audio out
• 1 ExpressCard/34 sltoe
• Optical drive
• Power adapter port

Compare these with the new 15" MacBook Pro:

• WiFi
• BlueTooth
• 4 USB C ports
• Audio in
• Audio out

To use the new MacBook Pro out of the box, you either a)buy all new equipment or wait for it to come out, or b) buy a ton of adapters for every situation.

What if USB-C doesn't catch on? When Thunderbolt came out everyone was looking forward to Thunderbolt drive enclosures and a host of other Thunderbolt devices. It never really happened. On my iMac all four of the USB 3 ports are in use, as is the 1000 Base T ethernet port....all in use, all the time, but the two Thunderbolt ports sit there like orphaned children. I can take an old 2009 MacBook I have and be able to likewise connect to nearly the same configuration, minus 2 USB ports(since it only has 2) plus an external display. A new MacBook Pro? No. Not at all. I would need several adapters and hubs, and the result would be a functional kludge of devices and adapters all plugged in to a unit that I suspect was designed this way strictly for the aesthetics of the case. I'm not even sure I could manage to take one of the 13" units with 2 USB-C ports and make it functional, even with adapters.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a terrible design, and it's not the fault of USB-C, its the lack of support for anything else that makes it that way.

 

[Laisha]

All that is correct, but the biggest thing for many users, like my mom, is it that is a symmetrical plug. It works no matter which way you plug it in.

I get that!