USB4 Specification Merges Thunderbolt 3 and USB With Transfer Speeds up to 40Gb/s

[oneMadRssn]

One cable to rule them all.

Now lets get USB-C on an iPhone.

Don't get me wrong, I like USB-C, but it is not the panacea everyone makes it out to be. There is not "one cable." There are a large number of different USB-C cables, all with different specs, speeds, etc.

Inexpensive USB-C charging cables are limited to USB2 speeds and most of them are limited to 30W of power. There are 60W and higher cables, but in 6ft lengths there are not as many options and it's far from easy to figure out what you're going to get. Some suppliers write the limits in terms of watts, some in terms of volts and amps. Most laymen have trouble figuring it all out.

And then there are the chargers... 18W, 30W, 60W, 90W, 100W, 5V, 12V, 18V, 2A, 3A. Chargers with two ports get even more confusing. While it's relatively easy math, I don't think having people doing Ohm's Law calculations in their heads when buying chargers in cables is user-friendly.

But I mentioned basic charging cables are super slow for data. If you want to use a USB-C cable for data, then it's even more confusing. Speeds vary depending on cable length and spec variant compatibility - a USB-C Gen 1 vs USB-C Gen 2 vs Thunderbolt 3; 1.5ft vs 3ft vs 6ft. Each combination will have a different max speed. It's all very difficult for most folks to keep straight.

Basically, USB is still a spaghetti of specs and limits, and this is just adding yet another layer. Just because the physical plug of Type C is nice, does not mean all the other USB problems are solved.

 

[Woodcrest64]

Time to bring forth Thunderbolt 4!

That and support for 8K displays or at least 120hz 4K & 5K monitors so Apple can make Cinema Displays with Pro Motion

 

[Swift]

It's all great news, but I wish they had some help with the design of these things. There are a multitude of identical USB-C cables now that have no indication at all, or no clear indication, of whether they support fast power, or which speed of Thunderbolt, etc.

 

[manu chao]

Skimming the relevant sections, there's a number of minor implementation details that are different between USB4 and TBT3.

So, is USB4 a slightly streamlined version of TB3? What about daisy-chaining? Searching through the 500+ pages specs, I only find one mention of that term.

 

[now i see it]

Transfer speeds 10X - 100X faster than anything available today are possible, but those in charge of specifications like to dole out incremental speed bumps every half decade or so in order to keep their jobs relevant.

 

[tofagerl]

I disagree. I think backwards compatibility is one of the keys to the success of USB. Keyboard and mouse makers can use a cheaper USB 1 or 2 controller instead of a more expensive chip. No need for high performance.

Then they can use USB 3, no?

 

[thisisnotmyname]

So is this going to make the array of USB-C cables more confusing or are all USB-C cables going to cost as much as thunderbolt 3 cables now?

 

[icanhazapple]

Any clue if Thunderbolt 3 will be forward compatible with USB4? (ie get 40gbps with USB4 devices connected to Thunderbolt 3 ports).

Yes, it will. I was reading the spec last week Friday (combed through a few pages) to find the answer to the question and the spec makes reference to this.

 

[ruslan120]

That and support for 8K displays or at least 120hz 4K & 5K monitors so Apple can make Cinema Displays with Pro Motion

I wish I could (comfortably) afford the regular one. :’(

Stupid house prices these days...

 

[guzhogi]

That and support for 8K displays or at least 120hz 4K & 5K monitors so Apple can make Cinema Displays with Pro Motion

Too bad Apple won't use GPUs that could drive that.

 

[herocero]

Bring back Magsafe!

/kidding

You can pry the magsafe laptop from my cold dead hands, it was by far one of the best laptop innovations when it came out and I'm still shocked Apple hasn't figured out a USB-C/magsafe solution.

If you've had pets ****-up laptops from plugged in power cables you know why I'm a zealot.

 

[Localcelebrity]

So, when all is said and done, will I still be able to plug in an old Firewire (400 or 800) device into a USB4 port via a series of dongles and have it work as it would today in a Thunderbolt port?

 

[Michael Scrip]

Will USB4 then drop support for USB-A, B and B's little cousins mini and micro? Because if so, it's about time!

USB4 is a protocol... USB-A, B, Mini-B and Micro-B are connectors...

There's nothing to drop... I'm sure a USB4 port will have all the electrical connections to handle all those older wacky connectors on various cables.

 

[konqerror]

So, is USB4 a slightly streamlined version of TB3? What about daisy-chaining? Searching through the 500+ pages specs, I only find one mention of that term.

Page 17.

The physical topology of a USB4 Fabric is an interconnected graph. The physical topology will typically resemble a tree with a USB4 host at the root and a set of USB4 hubs and/or devices connected downstream, in series and/or in parallel . However, loops can occur if there are multiple connections to a USB4 host. If the Connection Manager detects a loop in the physical topology of its Domain, it uses a subset of the interconnected graph in the form of a Spanning Tree, which removes any loops.

 

[Crowbot]

Then they can use USB 3, no?

Honestly, I don't really know what their choices are. I was just thinking that a USB 1 controller would be cheaper than a USB 3 or 4 would be. If the compatibility can be maintained in the spec, then why not?

I still haven't found any reason for Apple to have dropped USB fax modem support. Just throw us a bone if they have to.

 

[GtrDude]

Apple will start using this in their iPhones 10 years after its release.
Samsung the same year it's released.

 

[aevan]

Too bad that the products in the meantime were entirely unflexible and annoying for anyone who wanted to conveniently use their laptop as a computer

I was conveniently using USB-C/TB3 on my MBP since 2016.

Also, Apple’s decisions probably pushed USB 4 to come sooner than it would otherwise, so I guess that is good for everyone.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

USB4 is a protocol... USB-A, B, Mini-B and Micro-B are connectors...

There's nothing to drop... I'm sure USB4 will have all the electrical connections to handle all those older wacky connectors.

We need a sticky or something that explains connectors vs protocols, it seems people are constantly tripping over this. (and USB IF doesn't help with moves like 3.1 gen 1 and 3.1 gen 2)

 

[Santabean2000]

I remember being impressed with Firewire 400, then even more so with Firewire 800.

Now that was the sh**!

*goes to shave greying beard...*

 

[Peadogie]

Basically, USB is still a spaghetti of specs and limits, and this is just adding yet another layer.

What a mess! At least they kept the same connector/port.

 

[manu chao]

Page 17.

Is that tree referring to non-USB4 ports? As in having multiple TB docks in series which each can create multiple branches of all kinds of ports but with only a straight line for the actual TB connection? Or could you plug more than one 'true USB4' device into a USB4 hub (eg, two USB4 docks), where I use the term 'dock' to describe something that provides multiple different ports and 'hub' as something that multiplies the same kind of port (as we know from USB hubs in the past).

 

[zakarhino]

Lightning is still the most robust port design I've ever come across for serious charging/data capabilities. I can plug my phone in every day multiple times a day for two years and the port will still be solid enough to dangle the iPhone from its charging cable no problem. Meanwhile the USB C ports on my MacBook are stupidly loose after just a couple months of use to the point where occasionally the charger would unplug itself if you move the laptop in a strange way.

I know this is controversial but I'd much rather keep a robust port on the iPhone (lightning) than a convenient yet fragile one (USB C).

 

[Fixey]

Basically TB3 is USB4 without that high price of supporting it, so we all really have USB4 devices just called Thunderbolt 3 in the future they will be rebadged to USB4 probably have to pay to use that TB3 symbol anyways so guess save money on that too

 

[konqerror]

Is that tree referring to non-USB4 ports? As in having multiple TB docks in series which each can create multiple branches of all kinds of ports but with only a straight line for the actual TB connection? Or could you plug more than one 'true USB4' device into a USB4 hub (eg, two USB4 docks), where I use the term 'dock' to describe something that provides multiple different ports and 'hub' as something that multiplies the same kind of port (as we know from USB hubs in the past).

You're making it far more confusing than it is. USB4 supports arbitrary topologies, including loops.

You can pry the magsafe laptop from my cold dead hands, it was by far one of the best laptop innovations when it came out and I'm still shocked Apple hasn't figured out a USB-C/magsafe solution.

How people forget. You simply cannot pass high currents through tiny spring pins: internal arcing or electromigration or whatever causes the springs to fail. Trashed at least 4 adapters due to pin failure. Meanwhile, with USB-C can get an entire non-proprietary, open, UL listed charger and cable for $30 total, and can charge off non-Apple monitors.

 

[mhilferty108]

I remember being impressed with Firewire 400, then even more so with Firewire 800.

Now that was the sh**!

*goes to shave greying beard...*

Force of habit, not using a FireWire drive for video capturing/editing still feels wrong.