USB4 Specification Merges Thunderbolt 3 and USB With Transfer Speeds up to 40Gb/s

[redheeler]

Will USB4 then drop support for USB-A, B and B's little cousins mini and micro? Because if so, it's about time!

I really don't understand this resentment toward backwards-compatibility and people who choose to get more out of their devices by using them for many years. Not to mention that some older devices, such as my iMate ADB to USB adapter, simply have no modern equivalent and would be needlessly rendered useless.

 

[manu chao]

You're making it far more confusing than it is. USB4 supports arbitrary topologies, including loops.

When Thunderbolt was released, there were also reports of trees being possible but nobody apparently bothered to develop the actual hardware supporting it (and/or it was simply quietly dropped from the spec sheet again).

Or are we told to think of USB4 like a mesh WiFi network? Just plug them together in any combination and the controllers will figure things out?

At least, we now should get true 'USB-C hubs', ie, turn one computer USB-C port into multiple USB-C ports that can all support every protocol that is currently supported via USB-C. Merging the daisy-chain feature of TB with the branch feature of USB.

 

[norbinhouston]

But but but, Apple uses proprietary connections! This can't be.

 

[pzo]

Meanwhile iPhone XS still provides only USB 2.0 transfer speed

 

[JetLaw]

Let’s hope that what comes next is called “USB5” and not “USB4 2x2 Rev-A,” or other such nonsense. The USB naming scheme has been an embarrassing mess for far too long.

 

[macduke]

Hopefully this just means Apple can push out a software update to add USB 4.0 to all of the Thunderbolt 3 USB-C Macs. Not gonna lie, that would be pretty great news.

 

[perplx]

I really don't understand this resentment toward backwards-compatibility and people who choose to get more out of their devices by using them for many years. Not to mention that some older devices, such as my iMate ADB to USB adapter, simply have no modern equivalent and would be needlessly rendered useless.

Its still backwards compatible, just a get a usb-c to usb-a adapter.

Also it's not needless, we need faster speeds and smaller more durable connectors, usb4/thunderbolt 3 is a superset of almost every other computer cable, it might just be the last cable you need for the next 100 years.

 

[827538]

So USB4 will include anything?

My biggest issue with the USB consortium is their deliberately confusing cluster**** of a naming scheme. Even if I have USB-C I don’t necessarily know how fast it is, does it support USB-PD, does it support DP over USB.

I feel we are close to getting a perfect all encompassing standard if they body in charge wasn’t such a mess.

Also please move the iPhone to USB-C. I realise there will be some push back. But it’s for the best, then every single device I own will be USB-C and I can switch to only owning a single cable.

 

[Fftzyy]

Any clue if Thunderbolt 3 will be forward compatible with USB4? (ie get 40gbps with USB4 devices connected to Thunderbolt 3 ports).

Very good question. Will a TB3 peripheral work on a USB4 computer? Or will a USB4 40gbps peripheral work on a TB3 computer. This will primarily be an issue for Apple users since from what I read TB3 is not exactly 40gbps, but clocked slightly higher. Have to read in detail the spec.

 

[the-msa]

if they ever release an iPhone with usb-c... bet they would only include a usb to usb-c cable so you'll have to buy the usb-c to usb adaptor lol

i mean, I'm actually serious, sadly. if you can't connect your brand new iPhone to your brand new MacBook today...

 

[Fftzyy]

So USB4 will include anything?

My biggest issue with the USB consortium is their deliberately confusing cluster**** of a naming scheme. Even if I have USB-C I don’t necessarily know how fast it is, does it support USB-PD, does it support DP over USB.

I feel we are close to getting a perfect all encompassing standard if they body in charge wasn’t such a mess.

Also please move the iPhone to USB-C. I realise there will be some push back. But it’s for the best, then every single device I own will be USB-C and I can switch to only owning a single cable.

USB-C is the connector, not the protocol or physical layer standard. It is too bad that PD was not enforced as a requirement and USB3.2 did not require USB-C connector. That was a big screwup. They have now learned from their mistakes.
[doublepost=1567539055][/doublepost]

Very good question. Will a TB3 peripheral work on a USB4 computer? Or will a USB4 40gbps peripheral work on a TB3 computer. This will primarily be an issue for Apple users since from what I read TB3 is not exactly 40gbps, but clocked slightly higher. Have to read in detail the spec.

USB4 hubs are supposed to be TB3 compatible, but there is a flag to indicate it is not compatible. Computers and peripherals do not need to be TB3 compatible. I suspect that TB3 will last for another 5 years and be phased out to be replaced by 40gbps USB4. Apple will probably support TB3 for another 7-10 years but they will just die as demand dries up since USB4 50gbps will be the defacto Standard. This will help Apple users make the transition and also enables everyone to upgrade with improved interoperability for the transition time. There will be some issues, but so much better than today!

 

[JungleNYC]

Now lets get USB-C on an iPhone.

Isn't it about the waterproofing? Or just licensing fees?

 

[macplay]

There we go again..

 

[Avenged110]

I remember being impressed with Firewire 400, then even more so with Firewire 800.

Now that was the sh**!

*goes to shave greying beard...*

Hey, I'm still impressed with FireWire 800. One of my hard drives uses it and in my usage, it's no slower than my USB 3 drives. Thing's a beast.

 

[Strelok]

Lightning is still the most robust port design I've ever come across for serious charging/data capabilities. I can plug my phone in every day multiple times a day for two years and the port will still be solid enough to dangle the iPhone from its charging cable no problem. Meanwhile the USB C ports on my MacBook are stupidly loose after just a couple months of use to the point where occasionally the charger would unplug itself if you move the laptop in a strange way.

I know this is controversial but I'd much rather keep a robust port on the iPhone (lightning) than a convenient yet fragile one (USB C).

have you tried cleaning the ports? My Note 9 had that issue where the plug would keep falling out and I didn’t notice any dust. After using a small toothpick I was able to remove a bunch of dust. Lightning is much easier to clean and seems more durable though.

 

[kcslc]

With the whole thing about certain cables frying different components, and 3rd party docks bricking Nintendo switches— I hope this means we finally have a standard where everything operates with each other without frying— proper voltage, amperage, etc. and with just 1 connector. I feel like we should have been there already, but we are clearly not yet...

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

Actually, I wish they'd have redesigned the connector and port so as to leave this floating dumpster fire that android OEMS made "USB-C" into behind us.

 

[Zdigital2015]

So, when all is said and done, will I still be able to plug in an old Firewire (400 or 800) device into a USB4 port via a series of dongles and have it work as it would today in a Thunderbolt port?

Why? If it’s a hard drive simply take it out of the FW case and stick it in a USB-C case. If it’s a UA Apollo device, buy a TB3 card to go in the accessory slot on the back. If it’s another type of FW device, see if the connector is on a modular board and if the manufacturer ales an upgrade. Or is this and RME FireFade device? Something else?

Basically, if it’s FW400/800 and you can update it to something other than FW, do it. Otherwise, it’s time to chuck it...FW is dead and buried. Sorry, but spending time on Rube Goldberg devices to save a FW device is a waste of time and effort.

 

[PastaPrimav]

Ah Yes just what USB-C needs. More specs, more different cables, and more total and ridiculous confusion.

I absolutely LOVE the way the USB-C hounds pretend that its not a total disaster with "MUH SINGLE CONNECTOR" when there are at least 12 now (or more) different spec'd cables with USB-type-C connectors on the ends, and more coming.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Lightning is still the most robust port design I've ever come across for serious charging/data capabilities. I can plug my phone in every day multiple times a day for two years and the port will still be solid enough to dangle the iPhone from its charging cable no problem. Meanwhile the USB C ports on my MacBook are stupidly loose after just a couple months of use to the point where occasionally the charger would unplug itself if you move the laptop in a strange way.

I know this is controversial but I'd much rather keep a robust port on the iPhone (lightning) than a convenient yet fragile one (USB C).

Exactly why Apple will never switch to USB-C for iPhone. Lightning is a far superior physical connector, and it already supports USB3 and USB-PD. For iPhone, (almost) no one needs the video alt modes or hubs/adapters that make USB-C appropriate for iPad Pro.

There are ~1.4 billion users of Lightning iPhones and iPads, and they own probably 5 billion chargers and cables in total. There are maybe 50 million iPad Pro and/or USB C-only Mac owners

Yes, not switching to USB-C iPhones means those who own iPad Pro and/or USB-C Mac laptops will have to continue packing an extra cable. But that’s a small price to pay to avoid obsoleting the vast Lightning ecosystem—for no other reason than a few percent of customers can carry one less cable.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Ah Yes just what USB-C needs. More specs, more different cables, and more total and ridiculous confusion.

I absolutely LOVE the way the USB-C hounds pretend that its not a total disaster with "MUH SINGLE CONNECTOR" when there are at least 12 now (or more) different spec'd cables with USB-type-C connectors on the ends, and more coming.

True... I will admit that USB-C hasn't quite delivered on the promise of "one cable/port to rule them all"

But I think it's heading in the right direction and it'll (someday) work out in the end.

I can't believe we had DVI, DisplayPort, Mini-DisplayPort, HDMI, Mini-HDMI and Micro-HDMI... and they all performed the same task...

...deliver digital video. Ones and Zeros.

THAT'S something that shouldn't ever happen again! Multiple plugs that do the same damn thing!

Hopefully the USB-C port will be able to handle EVERY data/audio/video protocol in the future.

And we won't have to worry about the shape of the holes in our devices changing every couple years...

 

[Marx55]

What about Thunderbolt 4 (80 Gbps)?

 

[macnylonguitar]

Finally,

I am hoping this is the "last straw" that makes Thunderbolt a "standard" and widely adopted IO technology.

Companies have been reluctant to adopt it due the high priced licensing that Intel imposes on its licensees for Thunderbolt. So Intel can and apparently is just "pivoting" using USB4 = free TB3.

So that could explain "where the heck are all the TB3 devices"?, and the answer has been, nowhere, not gonna happen, due to those high license fees.

I have seen TB3 on Dell laptops, and of course Apple will just stick with TB3, but...

perhaps we will finally see USB4 / USB-C cables, external drives, etc all over the place and at reasonably cheap prices.

USB4/USB-C could finally be the answer as far as ubiquity, cheap cost, and fast speeds.

And of course, no brainer, iPhone 11 has to have USB-C connector / port...

 

[konqerror]

So that could explain "where the heck are all the TB3 devices"?, and the answer has been, nowhere, not gonna happen, due to those high license fees.

I have seen TB3 on Dell laptops, and of course Apple will just stick with TB3, but...

All of the PC manufacturers have TBT3 on all of their enterprise notebooks at this point: Dell, HP, Lenovo. They all sell TBT3 docks.

It is a replacement for their proprietary bottom dock ports which were too big, thick and expensive.

 

[technoholic]

I'll be grateful if USB4 becomes the ubiquitous connection for everything. But I still can't get my head around the current USB/TB3 implementation even when I think I've got it.

Here's an example - my LG Ultrafine 5k display came with a cable, I presume a TB3 cable. I would expect that I can't use a USB Type C non TB cable to connect my Mac to the monitor, which is the case. But why does my TB cable not work to connect my Mac to a different monitor that supports USB-C for video, i.e. my current LG 27UK850? Surely if TB3 is a superset of USB 3 then it should work right? it would be great if someone could explain that to me