I know. And I said it should be gigabit ethernet/firewire, not USB 2.0/firewire.
BTW, I added that my FireWire/SCSI converter costs over $100.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Users - Please Tell Apple to Keep/Put Back In Firewire
- Thread starter tjcampbell
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I know. And I said it should be gigabit ethernet/firewire, not USB 2.0/firewire.
BTW, I added that my FireWire/SCSI converter costs over $100.
I'ts a REQUEST, not a COMMAND. Plus just because you don't need it, doesn't mean no one else does. Plus, we do have the right to ask the manufacturer for a feature. People asked for 3G in the iPhone, was that wrong?
Would you like to Paypal me the difference in cost to buy a MBP, the money for a new Camcorder, and money for new external drives? I prefer a small Aluminum model.
I forgot to mention that if I turn on my FW TV tuner while a backup through this adapter is being performed, it stops, and the backup set gets corrupted and it has to be thrown away.
Apple screwed up. They should put things right
The logic that Apple is supposedly throwing at users to defend this terrible decision is seriously flawed.
I don't give a hoot if 50% of new MacBook users are new to the platform. Since when does that possibly indicate that they have no use for Firewire? What about the other 50%?
MacBook users don't need FW? Can someone please show me the fine print where Apple says it will replace all our Firewire gear with equally good USB2.0 gear free of charge if we purchase a MacBook without Firewire?
What? There is no such deal? Oh I get it. Apple has BILLIONS in CASH sitting in the bank and decides to pull a much used and much loved port from one of its top-selling machines, a port that costs them next to nothing to include, just so it can strong arm a large proportion of its users (those that need firewire) into paying more for the MBP.
But wait! That's not true. Those users can purchase the OLD MacBook and thank themselves lucky.
I truly hope that Apple is getting the message and really understands why so many people are up in arms about this. I also hope - although it's wishful thinking in the extreme - that Steve Jobs himself gives a public reply to Apple's users that have had their upgrade plans seriously affected by this ill-advised move. A reply to the people that bought into firewire following Apple's own encouragement.
Just what data were they looking at when they decided to remove Firewire from one of their top-selling machines? The '50%' and 'it's not needed' justifications don't hold water.
Many people find themselves with a lot of firewire devices because Apple was so late to the USB2.0 party. It turns out that having a lot of Firewire devices actually beats having a lot of USB2.0 devices because they perform better. Historically, Apple's support for USB2.0 has been very poor performance-wise.
I've already sent feedback into Apple and refuse to buy a new alu MacBook without Firewire (it was an xmas possibility but not now). Ironically there are plenty of low priced PC laptops with Firewire that could fill the gap, so the magic word would appear to be 'Hackintosh' for at least some current owners of Apple hardware.
A sorry state of affairs.
The logic that Apple is supposedly throwing at users to defend this terrible decision is seriously flawed.
I don't give a hoot if 50% of new MacBook users are new to the platform. Since when does that possibly indicate that they have no use for Firewire? What about the other 50%?
MacBook users don't need FW? Can someone please show me the fine print where Apple says it will replace all our Firewire gear with equally good USB2.0 gear free of charge if we purchase a MacBook without Firewire?
What? There is no such deal? Oh I get it. Apple has BILLIONS in CASH sitting in the bank and decides to pull a much used and much loved port from one of its top-selling machines, a port that costs them next to nothing to include, just so it can strong arm a large proportion of its users (those that need firewire) into paying more for the MBP.
But wait! That's not true. Those users can purchase the OLD MacBook and thank themselves lucky.
I truly hope that Apple is getting the message and really understands why so many people are up in arms about this. I also hope - although it's wishful thinking in the extreme - that Steve Jobs himself gives a public reply to Apple's users that have had their upgrade plans seriously affected by this ill-advised move. A reply to the people that bought into firewire following Apple's own encouragement.
Just what data were they looking at when they decided to remove Firewire from one of their top-selling machines? The '50%' and 'it's not needed' justifications don't hold water.
Many people find themselves with a lot of firewire devices because Apple was so late to the USB2.0 party. It turns out that having a lot of Firewire devices actually beats having a lot of USB2.0 devices because they perform better. Historically, Apple's support for USB2.0 has been very poor performance-wise.
I've already sent feedback into Apple and refuse to buy a new alu MacBook without Firewire (it was an xmas possibility but not now). Ironically there are plenty of low priced PC laptops with Firewire that could fill the gap, so the magic word would appear to be 'Hackintosh' for at least some current owners of Apple hardware.
A sorry state of affairs.
A single sticky about contacting Apple if you're discontent would be fantastic, as we really don't need a ton of threads about the same complaint. It does no good, and it pushes other threads with different subjects down. Of course since this is an unmoderated forum, that probably won't happen.
And there are even more MILLIONS of people with perfectly good miniDV camcorders.
Lets see the sources. It's fairly easy to just spit out stats. If it's not a big deal then why all the press about it?
No wonder they dropped firewire.
Seems like most Mac users now are retards who don't know what a port on their computer does.
You don't seem to be hurting too bad financially. You have a Mac mini, AppleTV, an iPhone and black Macbook. Some people can't even afford to have but one of those toys. Is something wrong with your current notebook that you need to replace it so soon or are you just another ranting poster about the FireWire? I actually do use Firewire Target Disk mode but it's not so serious that I decided to hold off on my purchase because the new Macbook doesn't have it. There was nothing in my post that said that if I don't need it nobody does. Yes you should voice your concerns to Apple but keep in mind Apple already knew SOME people would whine about the lack of Firewire in the Macbook but you should know they take surveys on who uses certain features. The new Macbook is closer to the Pro line than any other consumer Mac notebook in history so they have to have some distinction between the 2. Nobody would buy the MBP if the macbook did it all. At that point the only difference would be the screen size.
I would expect that Apple did some homework on this before deciding to drop FW from the MacBook. After all, they wouldn't drop a feature that most users can't live without would they. I for one couldn't really care less if the MacBook doesn't have FW any more because to my mind the MacBook isn't marketed towards the sort of person who will own and use a DV camcorder or other high-end FW peripheral. This sort of user should go for a MB Pro or iMac.
Having said that, I will be less impressed if they remove FW support from the rumoured new iMac because, again in my opinion, the iMac is well suited to video editing with its large screen, large & fast disk and powerful CPU.
To the OP, I'm sorry that the MacBook is no longer suited to your needs but perhaps you need to consider if Apple are doing you a favour by steering you away from a machine which might not be best suited to your needs for other reasons. To me that means either going for an iMac (if mobile usage isn't actually necessary) or a MacBook Pro if you need to be mobile. If you consider it a 3-5 year investment the extra cost doesn't seem quite so scary.
Good luck,
Craig.
Having said that, I will be less impressed if they remove FW support from the rumoured new iMac because, again in my opinion, the iMac is well suited to video editing with its large screen, large & fast disk and powerful CPU.
To the OP, I'm sorry that the MacBook is no longer suited to your needs but perhaps you need to consider if Apple are doing you a favour by steering you away from a machine which might not be best suited to your needs for other reasons. To me that means either going for an iMac (if mobile usage isn't actually necessary) or a MacBook Pro if you need to be mobile. If you consider it a 3-5 year investment the extra cost doesn't seem quite so scary.
Good luck,
Craig.
I don't have a source. Only Apple can tell you who is buying their computers.
However, if you visit any University campus - particularly in the USA - you'll notice there are way more people with these things writing essays on them than there are people with camcorders plugged in. I go to a creative school in the UK and I can tell you that the folks here who have Macs don't ever seem to use FireWire.
Let's make one thing clear though - if you were right (and you know, you aren't) but let's imagine you are. The way Apple is going to find out about this is when its sales decline, not when some fanboys send them an email. This is how business works and remember, you don't have to buy a new MacBook.
Really? Every revision of the plastic Macbook had firewire and was whole-heartily adopted by pretty much every budget minded or 13" wanting audio/musician person I know. Mac is touted as the most stable audio platform. Apple's Logic took an extreme price cut to make it affordable (consumer-ish) to these kinds of users.
At least because you put your opinion so nicely, I shall stay civil. MiniDV camcorders are now dime-a-dozen. I personally got started by getting a free Samsung MiniDV camcorder and an old iBook G4 12", which allowed me to make little short films and the like. 6 years later, I now own a Blackbook, a Canon HV30(a small upgrade from that samsung
) and relish both of them dearly. I would rather not have to go buy a new camera(that is probably AVCHD and will spend hours trying to encode on a macbook pro), or have to buy a bigger laptop just for one port. My camera was just bought, costed me 600 bucks and I would rather not replace it either! So, either Apple should give us Firewire back on the Macbook, or give me a 14.1" Macbook Pro(with S3200 support). To be honest, I'd rather have the 14.1" MBP, a perfect balance of performance and portability.
I think there is a culture aspect to this too. Here making "home movies" is not really all that common - it's more of an American thing. It's certainly not common for someone to use a FireWire camcorder - most folks just happen to use the video feature on their still camera which of course connects via USB or directly using the card.
Some of the people defending Apple's stance are clearly not seeing the bigger picture.
Ever since Apple moved to intel C2D the only real differentiating feature between consumer and pro laptops has been in the graphics card and screen quality. For most other things, a MacBook was plenty good enough for pros even if it wasn't a pro's main machine.
The lines between pro and consumer laptops have been getting blurred for years. When Apple started shipping fast processors in consumer Macs the lines got blurred even more.
It is a crass error to associate Firewire on the MacBooks exclusively with DV camcorders. Millions of people have them connected to macs. They are cheap and perfectly suited to editing material prior to output. 'Modern' cam corders that record direct to MPEG are recording to an output format not a format suited for editing. Surely it's easy to understand why people would rather continue using a combination (Mac, DV, Firewire) that is a marriage made in heaven.
For those that say nobody uses firewire but refuse to trump up any evidence I would suggest they take a look at current reality. Why are Seagate, LaCie, Western Digital, Iomega, Drobo, Verbatim et al not only including Firewire on some of their products but also targeting Mac users directly with drives pre-formatted in HFS+?
Why do people seem to think that all musicians are professional MBP-touting engineers with high end Firewire audio devices? Why do mid-range Firewire audio devices even exist if that's the case? It's because there is demand for them and a MacBook makes a nice portable solution for folks who don't have the cash to justify a MBP.
Why do manufacturers even bother to make Firewire devices if they are almost always more expensive than USB equivalents? Could it be because they actually manage to sell them in spite of the price differences?
Which leads us to the question: Why don't people just use USB2.0 and STF up? Maybe it's because, given the two technologies to choose from, many people prefer Firewire over USB for a host of technical and performance reasons. USB bogs down quickly when put under a strain and your Mac will see a spike in CPU activity too.
The burning issue has absolutely nothing to do with pros and domestic users per se. Pro users will go the extra mile and use FW800 but that's not the issue here. Firewire is very much of use in the consumer arena.
Let's be clear on this. People aren't begging for firewire on low end machines (like it had never been there before). They're questioning why it was taken away in the first place and requesting it be put back. So far, none of the pseudo 'official' responses hold water. Of course all we have is an alleged mail from Steve Jobs. If that mail proves to be authentic I'd consider it an insult that such an important move by Apple only warranted 'two lines' of justification as it has negatively (and unnecessarily) impacted the lives of many of its own users.
Ever since Apple moved to intel C2D the only real differentiating feature between consumer and pro laptops has been in the graphics card and screen quality. For most other things, a MacBook was plenty good enough for pros even if it wasn't a pro's main machine.
The lines between pro and consumer laptops have been getting blurred for years. When Apple started shipping fast processors in consumer Macs the lines got blurred even more.
It is a crass error to associate Firewire on the MacBooks exclusively with DV camcorders. Millions of people have them connected to macs. They are cheap and perfectly suited to editing material prior to output. 'Modern' cam corders that record direct to MPEG are recording to an output format not a format suited for editing. Surely it's easy to understand why people would rather continue using a combination (Mac, DV, Firewire) that is a marriage made in heaven.
For those that say nobody uses firewire but refuse to trump up any evidence I would suggest they take a look at current reality. Why are Seagate, LaCie, Western Digital, Iomega, Drobo, Verbatim et al not only including Firewire on some of their products but also targeting Mac users directly with drives pre-formatted in HFS+?
Why do people seem to think that all musicians are professional MBP-touting engineers with high end Firewire audio devices? Why do mid-range Firewire audio devices even exist if that's the case? It's because there is demand for them and a MacBook makes a nice portable solution for folks who don't have the cash to justify a MBP.
Why do manufacturers even bother to make Firewire devices if they are almost always more expensive than USB equivalents? Could it be because they actually manage to sell them in spite of the price differences?
Which leads us to the question: Why don't people just use USB2.0 and STF up? Maybe it's because, given the two technologies to choose from, many people prefer Firewire over USB for a host of technical and performance reasons. USB bogs down quickly when put under a strain and your Mac will see a spike in CPU activity too.
The burning issue has absolutely nothing to do with pros and domestic users per se. Pro users will go the extra mile and use FW800 but that's not the issue here. Firewire is very much of use in the consumer arena.
Let's be clear on this. People aren't begging for firewire on low end machines (like it had never been there before). They're questioning why it was taken away in the first place and requesting it be put back. So far, none of the pseudo 'official' responses hold water. Of course all we have is an alleged mail from Steve Jobs. If that mail proves to be authentic I'd consider it an insult that such an important move by Apple only warranted 'two lines' of justification as it has negatively (and unnecessarily) impacted the lives of many of its own users.
good luck with this. I'm still waiting for a floppy drive too...
fw is FAR from being outdated, especially with fw3200 just being approved.
My Mini is 2 years old, I got the AppleTV used over a year ago. My iPhone I got closeout and use on T-Mobile as it's much cheaper, and my Black MacBook I got refurb for $1049 to replace an iBook G4 that was over 4 years old and didn't want to wait for an Aluminum one, good thing I got it. I would've had to pay $1299 for one without the Firewire (I have a DV camcorder and FW externals).
Thank you, one of the very few meaningful posts...
Money talks, baloney walks...
That is a very short and unprofessional reply from Steve Jobs (if it is Steve Jobs).
He clearly ignores the fact that music/audio guys and gals rely on firewire and comes out with the ******** that "actually newer cameras use only usb 2.0
Steve Jobs i am disappointed in you. I thought you would of known better.
Artmuzz
It's too late, they've already removed it. They are not going to change it back. It seems the only options will be the white one, refurbs, or the Pro.
On the next update, sure they could.
Maybe it will piss you off.
But don't believe that you will not have a leg to stand on lawsuit wise.
If they receive enough feedback, Apple will take it seriously.
I see a larger picture. Look at the MBA. Lack of ports. Now the MB doesn't include FW. Does this mean the updated Mac Mini won't have FW. Or how about the low end iMac?
All Macs should have FW. It is an Apple standard. It is not only used for video. Many use it for backing up devices and for Target Disk Mode.
Personally, I would rather see the opposite. Laptops generally connect to a network via WiFi and not via Ethernet. A FW800 port and then use an adapter for Ethernet might be a better solution.
Definitely leave feedback if you want FW on the MB.
Just do it, politely of course. The more feedback, the more Apple will take notice.
Actually, good companies do listen to customer feedback. Of course not all is acted upon, but if enough feedback is received, they will adjust.
Agree. I would hate to see this option even explored.
Disagree.
Now is the time to voice your opinion. Otherwise in the future, you may have fewer options.
Agree.
Video is only one aspect.
FW is also very handy for Target Disk Mode and for backing up/transferring large files to and from an external HD.
Disagree. Based upon large feedback from their existing customer base may result in Apple adjusting the design when the next update is released.
The issue is sustained file transfers. FW400 is much faster than USB2.0 -- significantly faster. In real world tests using the same computer and same external HD (that has both FW and USB2.0), FW is about 1.6 to 1.7 times as fast to transfer the same set of large files. Of course FW800 is even faster.
My university helps finance the purchase of Macbooks to every student of three different study programs every year. That equals to around 60 computers each year. Out of those 60 at least 40 students will absolutely require to have the possibility to capture and edit DV footage. Macbooks, or iBooks few years ago, were totally capable to do this task. This year they will probably buy the white Macbooks, but If the trend continues, and Apple will not add the FW port back in the next revisions, it is likely that the university will move to PCs instead, since the Pros are too expensive.
I would argue that almost every single art university that deals with video is still mainly based on DV and thus absolutely require FireWire. Many students like to work on laptops and cannot afford to buy a MBP and will most likely get a PC instead.
People who work with media (audio/video/graphics) were the biggest reason Apple stayed alive before the iPod/iPhone boom, and now they have made all these people very disappointed and even angry. You just have to look at the two biggest sites in digital audio and video: http://createdigitalmotion.com/ and http://createdigitalmusic.com/ and other similar sites. They are filled with responses dealing this issue. It is not a good move to piss of the creative community that has been Apple's strongest supporter for years.
I really don't understand why some people try to defend Apple on this decision. I assume most people here are consumers and not part of the company. There is no reason why we as customers shouldn't express our opinions about the products that Apple is trying to sell to us. If we feel that Macbook would be a better product if it had a FireWire port, we should let them know. Having the FW would not affect the people who don't need it in any way, but having it would make those who need it very happy. And instead of the huge amount of negative press about the new Macbooks they would have received a lot of good coverage.
FW is not a pro feature. Crippling the lower end model is not the right way to make the Pro model look more professional.
I would argue that almost every single art university that deals with video is still mainly based on DV and thus absolutely require FireWire. Many students like to work on laptops and cannot afford to buy a MBP and will most likely get a PC instead.
People who work with media (audio/video/graphics) were the biggest reason Apple stayed alive before the iPod/iPhone boom, and now they have made all these people very disappointed and even angry. You just have to look at the two biggest sites in digital audio and video: http://createdigitalmotion.com/ and http://createdigitalmusic.com/ and other similar sites. They are filled with responses dealing this issue. It is not a good move to piss of the creative community that has been Apple's strongest supporter for years.
I really don't understand why some people try to defend Apple on this decision. I assume most people here are consumers and not part of the company. There is no reason why we as customers shouldn't express our opinions about the products that Apple is trying to sell to us. If we feel that Macbook would be a better product if it had a FireWire port, we should let them know. Having the FW would not affect the people who don't need it in any way, but having it would make those who need it very happy. And instead of the huge amount of negative press about the new Macbooks they would have received a lot of good coverage.
FW is not a pro feature. Crippling the lower end model is not the right way to make the Pro model look more professional.
Agree. This is a dumb move on Apple's part.
Apple is FW.
The new FW3200 should be out sometime soon -- if the press releases are to be believed. It uses the FW800 connector, cables and is backwards compatible. It beats eSATA IMHO.
Both laptops should have FW800.
Also, FW is used more than just video editing. Target Disk Mode and transferring large files to and from an external HD come to mind.
