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Users - Please Tell Apple to Keep/Put Back In Firewire
- Thread starter tjcampbell
- Start date
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I have never used Firewire in my laptop. I am one of those people the MacBook is aimed towards; I mostly use it for listening to music, surfing the web, maybe some light Photoshop and web development. I can also attest that I probably would have never used the Firewire port in the new MacBook.
With that being said, it is an absolute disappointment that Apple has decided to release these new models without Firewire. The attitude of "**** you, I got mine!" here is disgusting. No, you may not use the Firewire port, but many people do. The people who held Apple up before the iPod phenomenon, or hell, just people looking to use audio and video equipment, or a Firewire HDD, heaven forbid.
And for what exactly? The new design prohibits the inclusion of a Firewire port without sacrificing another port, but A) It was designed with this in mind, not the other way around, and B) They could've gotten rid of one of the USB ports; hubs are available. However, there is no way to use Firewire with this machine, period.
I am receiving an Aluminum 2.0 MacBook next week. I don't need Firewire. But, I know that people do, and this is a sad situation for them. Vote with your dollars and leave Apple if you can.
With that being said, it is an absolute disappointment that Apple has decided to release these new models without Firewire. The attitude of "**** you, I got mine!" here is disgusting. No, you may not use the Firewire port, but many people do. The people who held Apple up before the iPod phenomenon, or hell, just people looking to use audio and video equipment, or a Firewire HDD, heaven forbid.
And for what exactly? The new design prohibits the inclusion of a Firewire port without sacrificing another port, but A) It was designed with this in mind, not the other way around, and B) They could've gotten rid of one of the USB ports; hubs are available. However, there is no way to use Firewire with this machine, period.
I am receiving an Aluminum 2.0 MacBook next week. I don't need Firewire. But, I know that people do, and this is a sad situation for them. Vote with your dollars and leave Apple if you can.
I use firewire to target disc mode my computers all the time.
I use firewire to transfer information and for Time Machine all the time.
I use firewire to boot up old macs and transfer information.
I can't imagine not having it.
But if I were to get a Glassbook/Aluminum Macbook, I would simply slip out the hard drive and pop it in a firewire enclosure and transfer information off of it that way vis a vis another mac.
P.S. I'm getting the last revision Macbook this week... with firewire.
Firewire has an electrical current that USB does not have; and it's bootable. I think the bootable part is why Apple left it out. They lose money when we can boot an OS into a machine.
Apple is retreating to its year 2000 ways == where fans were warned of the dangers of opening up a Mac etc. I was so scared to just put memory in my brand new Titanium Powerbook of 2001 because of this Apple "fear" that I snapped the clips off the logic board.
Fortunately I was on the phone with Apple at the time and they put in a new logicboard for me under Applecare.
But I do remember how we were scared off of opening up Macs back in the day, by Apple. Even swapping hard drives threatened to "void the warranty"...
I think the firewire utility costs Apple in the long run for those of us now who know how to save money with our own upgrades with it and use Target DiskMode a lot.
Of course, I remember when they left off the floppy disc drive on the original iMac G3s... Horrors!
P.S. I think I'm getting the last revision MacBook this week... with firewire.
I use firewire to transfer information and for Time Machine all the time.
I use firewire to boot up old macs and transfer information.
I can't imagine not having it.
But if I were to get a Glassbook/Aluminum Macbook, I would simply slip out the hard drive and pop it in a firewire enclosure and transfer information off of it that way vis a vis another mac.
P.S. I'm getting the last revision Macbook this week... with firewire.
Firewire has an electrical current that USB does not have; and it's bootable. I think the bootable part is why Apple left it out. They lose money when we can boot an OS into a machine.
Apple is retreating to its year 2000 ways == where fans were warned of the dangers of opening up a Mac etc. I was so scared to just put memory in my brand new Titanium Powerbook of 2001 because of this Apple "fear" that I snapped the clips off the logic board.
Fortunately I was on the phone with Apple at the time and they put in a new logicboard for me under Applecare.
But I do remember how we were scared off of opening up Macs back in the day, by Apple. Even swapping hard drives threatened to "void the warranty"...
I think the firewire utility costs Apple in the long run for those of us now who know how to save money with our own upgrades with it and use Target DiskMode a lot.
Of course, I remember when they left off the floppy disc drive on the original iMac G3s... Horrors!
P.S. I think I'm getting the last revision MacBook this week... with firewire.
They say the proof is in the pudding.
Rumours suggest that the iMacs will receive an update shortly. If that update proves to be more than a speed bump and lacks firewire we can safely assume that Apple has decided to dump firewire.
Such a decision would be a huge blow to users who have invested heavily in the technology and the ecosystem of manufacturers who have picked up on it.
Ironically there is NO true substitute (either in the industry or on current macs) that provides a real advancement on Firewire.
eSATA may be faster than current FW solutions but lacks many other features that FW does have. In any case, Apple has shown no interest in supporting eSATA but surely will end up doing so (being as late to the party as it was with USB2.0).
Performance for USB2.0 on all current Macs (as far as I can tell) is not as good as support for USB2.0 on PCs.
There is a conference call tomorrow and the burning question will be unavoidable. Let's see how Apple responds.
BTW I have already discarded buying a new MacBook because of this firewire issue. If any new iMacs lack firewire they will also be struck off my list.
2009 could be the year of the Hackintosh!
Rumours suggest that the iMacs will receive an update shortly. If that update proves to be more than a speed bump and lacks firewire we can safely assume that Apple has decided to dump firewire.
Such a decision would be a huge blow to users who have invested heavily in the technology and the ecosystem of manufacturers who have picked up on it.
Ironically there is NO true substitute (either in the industry or on current macs) that provides a real advancement on Firewire.
eSATA may be faster than current FW solutions but lacks many other features that FW does have. In any case, Apple has shown no interest in supporting eSATA but surely will end up doing so (being as late to the party as it was with USB2.0).
Performance for USB2.0 on all current Macs (as far as I can tell) is not as good as support for USB2.0 on PCs.
There is a conference call tomorrow and the burning question will be unavoidable. Let's see how Apple responds.
BTW I have already discarded buying a new MacBook because of this firewire issue. If any new iMacs lack firewire they will also be struck off my list.
2009 could be the year of the Hackintosh!
I think its unlikely that Apple are dumping it, given that the new wave of MBP machines all feature firewire.
They're too big and much too heavy to be comfortable on a shoulder strap - heavier even than the previous model even. I have MBP already but I wanted a smaller, lighter machine that could cope with a few tracks of Logic and of course my firefire audio interfaces. At the moment if I want to stay with Apple I have no choice - it's buy the big one or nothing.
Interesting point.
Last evening I visited the Ginza Apple Store and saw the new MB and MBP.
I like the design. However, I don't like the glossy display, chiclet keyboard nor the lack of FW on the MB.
What struck me is how similar the MB and MBP are in appearance. I am wondering how Apple will differentiate the two models in the future.
Well, I did go to the Apple Store and did try out the Aluminum MacBook - what a great machine.
Too bad you can't use FW devices on it. I went home to try my USB MiniDVD Camcorder - which didn't work with the old iMovie, and it works now with iMovie '08. The only thing is that iMovie '08 seems too simplistic and lacks many features that iMovie HD or FCE has. My camcorder won't work with the older programs.
It lead me to conclude that Apple wants people who are "serious" prosumers or pros to go to the MacBook Pro where the FW and better Apps are. Consumers can stick with the MacBook and the cheap USB camcorders, USB audio boxes, and iLife...
I'm hoping that by the time I need to get a new MacBook in a couple of years, it'll be capable of 8 Gigs RAM, Core i7, have FW, and have the backlit keypad (gotta have that after looking at it in the store on a MacBook), and be the entry level one. Don't think it's gonna happen, though.
Too bad you can't use FW devices on it. I went home to try my USB MiniDVD Camcorder - which didn't work with the old iMovie, and it works now with iMovie '08. The only thing is that iMovie '08 seems too simplistic and lacks many features that iMovie HD or FCE has. My camcorder won't work with the older programs.
It lead me to conclude that Apple wants people who are "serious" prosumers or pros to go to the MacBook Pro where the FW and better Apps are. Consumers can stick with the MacBook and the cheap USB camcorders, USB audio boxes, and iLife...
I'm hoping that by the time I need to get a new MacBook in a couple of years, it'll be capable of 8 Gigs RAM, Core i7, have FW, and have the backlit keypad (gotta have that after looking at it in the store on a MacBook), and be the entry level one. Don't think it's gonna happen, though.
It's not a petition. They have a feedback form. How will they know if we don't tell them? Reading through all the crap in forums would be a huge waste of time
, so this way, they are getting a message. Whether they do or not, is not the point. It's like not voting for government. You should turn up and null your vote, rather than just not vote. If you don't voice your opinion, it's worthless, i.e. if you complain about things and don't make an effort when you can, then your opinion is worthless.anyway, done and done.
This is exactly why I have kept hold of my little 12" PowerBook.
They do look nice.
Definitely leave feedback if you want FW in the MB.
You can send a polite message to steve@apple.com
You can also leave feedback on the MB at Apple's web site.
If enough provide feedback, Apple will take notice and may change future plans.
Not everyone wants it. Fine.
This is for those who desire FW in the MB.
Out of curiosity, have you used FW before? And if so, for what?
TIA.
I posted on this early on, and didn't quite see why people were so angry. I get it now, but I still think Apple made the right decision.
Basically, the MacBook is targeted towards normal users. The emphasis here is on normal. We're all techheads here, so we look forward to FW3200, LED screens, stuff like that. For the majority of computer users - and new or old to Macs, that means a lot of MacBooks (and iMacs) - the difference between CRT and LED screens is the thickness. USB means USB sticks and connecting printers and phones to your computer. A hell of a lot of people don't know what the ethernet port does, let alone the FireWire port, any more than perhaps you or I know about how a train engine works. We know it makes the train move, and fuel is involved, but we only know the specifics that directly concern us. That doesn't make us morons anymore than people who aren't knowledgeable about computers and technology. That said, there are a lot of creative types who are going to be miffed at not including FW400. Fair enough. From the substance of people's responses, though, it almost seems like people think Apple made this decision on the back of an envelope.
It's going to be far, far from it. Apple have clearly conducted market research into current and potential future users usage of their Macs/PCs, and have determined that there is an advantage to leaving out FireWire. Maybe it's a issue of size, technical limitations or cost-cutting perhaps Apple are just trying to make people spend more on a MacBook Pro. Honestly though, I doubt they made the decision lightly. For what it's worth, I don't think they will drop the cheapo white MacBook. I can see them leaving out the snazzy extras - the nVidia graphics, backlit keyboard, design - and just updating the processor to the most basic but current spec. If you want the snazzy design, FireWire and all the cool new toys, then you either spring for an MBP or make do.
For the record, I say all this as the owner of more than a few FireWire only peripherals. There are options if you still need FireWire, which for the audio and video prosumer crowd can be more important than the snazziness of the new designs.
Basically, the MacBook is targeted towards normal users. The emphasis here is on normal. We're all techheads here, so we look forward to FW3200, LED screens, stuff like that. For the majority of computer users - and new or old to Macs, that means a lot of MacBooks (and iMacs) - the difference between CRT and LED screens is the thickness. USB means USB sticks and connecting printers and phones to your computer. A hell of a lot of people don't know what the ethernet port does, let alone the FireWire port, any more than perhaps you or I know about how a train engine works. We know it makes the train move, and fuel is involved, but we only know the specifics that directly concern us. That doesn't make us morons anymore than people who aren't knowledgeable about computers and technology. That said, there are a lot of creative types who are going to be miffed at not including FW400. Fair enough. From the substance of people's responses, though, it almost seems like people think Apple made this decision on the back of an envelope.
It's going to be far, far from it. Apple have clearly conducted market research into current and potential future users usage of their Macs/PCs, and have determined that there is an advantage to leaving out FireWire. Maybe it's a issue of size, technical limitations or cost-cutting perhaps Apple are just trying to make people spend more on a MacBook Pro. Honestly though, I doubt they made the decision lightly. For what it's worth, I don't think they will drop the cheapo white MacBook. I can see them leaving out the snazzy extras - the nVidia graphics, backlit keyboard, design - and just updating the processor to the most basic but current spec. If you want the snazzy design, FireWire and all the cool new toys, then you either spring for an MBP or make do.
For the record, I say all this as the owner of more than a few FireWire only peripherals. There are options if you still need FireWire, which for the audio and video prosumer crowd can be more important than the snazziness of the new designs.
I see.
Your earlier comments make sense since you don't use FW for the following:
- Cloning an internal HD to an external HD.
- Copying large files from between internal and external HDs.
- Use FW to connect to the external HD used for your Time Machine backups.
- Operate your computer in Target Disk Mode.
- Import and export DV video streams from DV Camcorder.
Well they should lower the price of those new MacBooks so the normal user can afford them. Even normal users need/use FireWire.
The asking price of £949 is a ridiculous amount of money for a notebook that doesn't even have FireWire unlike the old MacBook which was only £749 which did. The new MacBooks may be better built but we need the ports we need on a consumer notebook too.
Two reasons I will not be replacing my trusty old MacBook with the new model is the lack of FireWire and the ridiculous increase in price.
Artmuzz
Well, as it happens sales of Macbooks are going to drop anyway due to the financial crisis - the new models are more expensive than the old ones.
There's a reason why the EEE style laptops are on the up. Students will be buying these to "write essays and listen to music".
I was dead set on buying a new Macbook but I need it for music production and live performance and rely on FireWire devices.
I don't want a huge MBP, I want a small capable laptop. (I have a MBP for work, trust me it's too big for having on you all the time). The new Macbook is not sufficient and it's presence in Apple's range makes a small MBP unlikely.
Having owned three of these (then a Black Macbook and MBP) I can say an intel version of the 12" Powerbook is pretty much an ideal machine for me.
However, I'm under no illusions that Apple will do anything to make something like this a reality.
Yes, it would be nice to see the MBP offered in 12/13, 15 and 17 size.
A full featured laptop with optical drive.
Having seen the new MB and MBP, they look very similar. Before it was easy to tell the difference between the MB and MBP lines. Now, at a little distance, they look basically the same. Of course up close you can see differences. Interesting.
Wrong. I'm a pro user who owns a tower and a MacBook. I don't need the power of the MacBook Pro as I do all my heavy lifting with my tower. However, I do need a mobile computer as well. Target Disc Mode is a great way for those two computers to communicate. Also, if I'm with a client who wants to give me huge files from their firewire external HD, firewire sure is handy. There are a lot of pro users who own MacBooks and towers but not MBPs. They are our secondary computers, but connectivity is even more important, not less.
The bottom line is this: Can the drop in sales due to the "niche" of people needing FW avoiding the new MB be made up by more "normal users" wanting the machine?
I don't know the answer but the price of the new machines suggests that "normal users" are more the kind of people who're looking for a small Pro anyway. Is this a big market?
Time will tell.
I don't know the answer but the price of the new machines suggests that "normal users" are more the kind of people who're looking for a small Pro anyway. Is this a big market?
Time will tell.
Yes, the lack of FW on the new MacBook is EPIC FAIL.
I just bought a Presonus FireBox - the best recording interface in its price bracket and a very popular piece of hardware. Guess what... it's FireWire!
In fact, I don't know of such a recording interface by any manufacturer that is not FireWire.
Had I waited and bought the new MacBooks I would not have been able to do the recording work I need to do. Luckily I got the black MacBook.
Just one more example of how no FireWire can be a deal-breaker.
I just bought a Presonus FireBox - the best recording interface in its price bracket and a very popular piece of hardware. Guess what... it's FireWire!
In fact, I don't know of such a recording interface by any manufacturer that is not FireWire.
Had I waited and bought the new MacBooks I would not have been able to do the recording work I need to do. Luckily I got the black MacBook.
Just one more example of how no FireWire can be a deal-breaker.
Exactly. This states it perfectly. I run a video business but I don't need the MBP. I do the heavy editing on a desktop. The MB would have been for location work (capture and rough edits). Now, I'm taking a hard look at abandoning Apple (they decided this. They abandoned me first) altogether and moving everything to PC where I can get a quality small form laptop (been using one for the last six months and it's been great) with every connector I need (including an exopresscard slot)and a price $300-400 less than a MB (which is supposed to be an entry level computer according to Apple. I'm giving them six months to indicate the direction they will be going. If the new iMacs have no firewire, I'm definitely gone.
It's hard to say goodbye after 25 years. But I'll do what's in my best interest, since Apple seems to be losing interest in the creative content community.