Using Verizon LTE iPad with AT&T 3G

[aka777]

That is incorrect. You can't use a unlocked 4S with just any carrier.

Also you ignored my statements. They do care what service you use because thats how they make money. Chipsets do not alone define a device CDMA or GSM.

You do not seem to grasp that regardless of how the carriers 'make their money', the unlocked 4S that is sold for $649 and the iPads are 'NOT' subsidized by the carriers.

If you purchase a 4S that is factory unlocked and use it on T-Mobile or ST, AT&T is not going to come running after you. It's your phone and has nothing to do with AT&T.

The only reason you cannot use a factory unlocked 4S on VZ or Sprint is because they do not allow it and typically never have allowed each others phones to work, which is a whole other story. It's not because of some sort of hardware lock or incompatibility.

 

[Buildbright]

You do not seem to grasp that regardless of how the carriers 'make their money', the unlocked 4S that is sold for $649 and the iPads are 'NOT' subsidized by the carriers.

If you purchase a 4S that is factory unlocked and use it on T-Mobile or ST, AT&T is not going to come running after you. It's your phone and has nothing to do with AT&T.

The only reason you cannot use a factory unlocked 4S on VZ or Sprint is because they do not allow it and typically never have allowed each others phones to work, which is a whole other story. It's not because of some sort of hardware lock or incompatibility.

I grasp what you say but you still cannot address you were wrong. How do you think they keep the device from using a CDMA network? Elves? They lock it for the specific carriers region and/or make it incompatible.

Have a good night...LMAO

 

[aka777]

I grasp what you say but you still cannot address you were wrong. How do you think they keep the device from using a CDMA network? Elves? They lock it for the specific carriers region and/or make it incompatible.

Have a good night...LMAO

Which GSM carrier is unusable on the 'Factory unlocked' iphone 4S, iPad 1, or 2?

Actually, it's the CDMA carriers that are blocking your use of a non-approved iphone 4S. It's not Apple locking down the 'Factory Unlocked 4S, it's VZ's policy to not allow any phone that is not in their database.

As soon as you call VZ to activate and they check the ESN, they will not accept it - end of story. This is applies before you have even switched on the phone.

 

[RetiredInFl]

Which GSM carrier is unlocked from the 'Factory unlocked' iphone 4S or iPad 1 and 2?

Actually, it's the CDMA carriers that are blocking your use of a non-approved iphone 4S. It's not Apple locking down the 'Factory Unlocked 4S, it's VZ's policy to not allow any phone that is not in their database.

As soon as you call VZ to activate and they check the ESN, they will not accept it - end of story. This is applies before you have even switched on the phone.

While everything you say in all your previous messages is likely 100% correct IN THEORY neither you nor I nor Jesus Christ (well maybe JC knows, he knows everything but he ain't talking as they probably put him under non-disclosure until Friday 3/16) can say without doubt or condition that the Verzion iPad will be ALLOWED to work with an AT&T SIM on ATT's Network IN THE USA. One can only ASSume based on LOGIC that it should. However, based on logic and ASSumptions "unlimited" should also mean "UNLIMITED" to AT&T. In the end, did it?

Unless you have had an iPad 3 in your hands with an AT&T SIM installed you are simply guessing and ASSuming based on nothing but conjecture and logic just like the rest of us.

That means NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH when it comes to the mobile communications world.

_____________________________________
Bottom line (that ^^^^^ is the "bottom line) is I HOPE YOU are right however we won't know until someone actually tries it and proof is displayed.

 

[aka777]

Totally agree, we'll see tomorrow. Considering there's not much to using GSM, I strongly feel the both models are going to be unlocked - just pop in a sim.

The AT&T 4S is locked down and refuses to accept international sims, yet the AT&T ver new iPad is the exact model that will be sold overseas, with its LTE bands included, but useless outside North America of course.

What Buildbright does not understand is that CDMA carriers have pulled this 'not compatible' crap off for years. Even when you tried to use the exact same model handset, even same batch, from a different carrier - it's not allowed.

 

[RetiredInFl]

is that CDMA carriers have pulled this 'not compatible' crap off for years. Even when you tried to use the exact same model handset, even same batch, from a different carrier - it's not allowed.

Which only goes to prove how easy they could program the VZW model to not function using ATT (or any US based GSM carrier's towers inside the US) but still work worldwide on GSM which is the ONLY thing they promise. They never say either device is unlocked just that it will work worldwide. Every transmitter identifies itself by location & carrier so the US GSM carrier exclusion would be quite simple to implement. Fingers crossed that they don't.

 

[BiggAW]

The reason the iphones are locked is because they are heavily subsidized by the carriers.

Just in case anyone has not noticed, we are paying an extra $130 for the cellular version of the ipad. Therefore, these are not locked. You are free to use them on whichever networks the radio chipsets support.

The only reason there are two versions is because of the LTE bands.

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No such thing as GSM or CDMA device, whenever both chipsets are included.

This device has nothing to do with the carriers. If you purchase a 4G and never activate it, neither VZ or ATT will care. It's also why they offer prepaid data subscriptions that you can connect or disconnect at your leisure.

That's what I'm thinking as well. I don't think Verizon cares that you could use it on AT&T, they didn't subsidize it, and few people would know that anyways. SIM cards seem a foreign concept to most Americans, especially the Verizon crowd. With open access on the C-block, and the way LTE uses SIM cards, the iPad should be SIM swappable from Verizon to AT&T, since now the SIM cards hold CDMA subscriber info as well.

 

[Adelphos33]

Honestly, I think that people planning on using an AT&T SIM card in the US in a Verizon phone will be disappointed.

1) The US iPads are likely software locked to work with either Verizon or AT&T in the US. Otherwise, Apple would not have put such clear directions on the Apple web store.

2) How would billing work? You would have to maintain both AT&T and Verizon data plans on a monthly basis. It seems like it would be difficult to do this on the same device.

 

[JoJoCal19]

I think people have some misconceptions on why an unlocked 4S won't work on Verizon. The reason is because Verizon will not let you activate a phone that the ESN/IMEI is not in their database, meaning phones from other carriers that have a CDMA chip that works with their bands. That is why, not software, but because they won't add the phone to their database. The iPad is a different beast however as unless Apple has let Verizon force their hand to software lock the GSM bands from operating on US GSM bands, it will work on AT&T's network. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think other countries use some of the same bands that AT&T does so like I said, unless Apple let Verizon force them to software lock the GSM bands to not work in the US, it should work.

 

[RetiredInFl]

I think people have some misconceptions on why an unlocked 4S won't work on Verizon.

It's the other way around that makes it similar to the VZW iPad. A VERIZON iPhone 4S will not work on AT&T bands IN THE US even though they are included in the device even if you get VZW to unlock it so you can use "foreign (non US)" carriers (SIMs). So an UNLOCKED VZW iPhone 4S won't work on ATT GSM bands IN THE US just like (possibly, no one knows for sure until tomorrow) an "unlocked" VZW iPad might not work on ATT GSM bands IN THE US.

 

[aperry]

Honestly, I think that people planning on using an AT&T SIM card in the US in a Verizon phone will be disappointed.

1) The US iPads are likely software locked to work with either Verizon or AT&T in the US. Otherwise, Apple would not have put such clear directions on the Apple web store.

2) How would billing work? You would have to maintain both AT&T and Verizon data plans on a monthly basis. It seems like it would be difficult to do this on the same device.

I am not sure I buy either of these.

1) What directions? Are you referring to the data plans? They are specific to LTE. This discussion has nothing to do with LTE as I think it's common knowledge that ATT LTE will *not* work in the Verizon iPad.

2) I don't know why billing would be complicated? Your ATT bill is tied to the sim card. Pop it in the Verizon iPad and you're data continues to be measured and billed by ATT. Right?

 

[JoJoCal19]

It's the other way around that makes it similar to the VZW iPad. A VERIZON iPhone 4S will not work on AT&T bands IN THE US even though they are included in the device even if you get VZW to unlock it so you can use "foreign (non US)" carriers (SIMs). So an UNLOCKED VZW iPhone 4S won't work on ATT GSM bands IN THE US just like (possibly, no one knows for sure until tomorrow) an "unlocked" VZW iPad might not work on ATT GSM bands IN THE US.

Oh I know they did some software lock like I was saying, to disable 3G bands in the US. I was referring to people saying that the unlocked Canadian 4S won't work on Verizon even though it has a CDMA chip.

I do think (and am hoping) that Apple views the iPad differently, and will not use a software lock and tell the carriers to pound salt.

 

[aka777]

It's the other way around that makes it similar to the VZW iPad. A VERIZON iPhone 4S will not work on AT&T bands IN THE US even though they are included in the device even if you get VZW to unlock it so you can use "foreign (non US)" carriers (SIMs). So an UNLOCKED VZW iPhone 4S won't work on ATT GSM bands IN THE US just like (possibly, no one knows for sure until tomorrow) an "unlocked" VZW iPad might not work on ATT GSM bands IN THE US.

We are talking about two completely different models here:

1. The Factory unlocked version of the iphone 4S that retails for $649 and is purchased directly from Apple
2. The locked VZ model purchased for $199, that can have its sim unlocked for international carriers

Yes a "Verizon 4S" model will not work on AT&T or Sprint, even if unlocked, because this is a VZ model that has been subsidized by Verizon.

Whereas, buying a Factory Unlocked 4S directly from apple for $649 has no carrier affiliation whatsoever.

As pointed out by others and myself, the only reason you cannot use the $649 4S on VZ is because VZ's corporate policy is to not permit any CDMA handset that is not in their database on their network. For example, the reason I cannot use Sprint's galaxy SII on VZ is not because of any lock, rather, because VZ refuses to allow it.

Both cellular ipads 1 & 2 are sold with the baseband unlocked and allowed me to just pop in a T-mobiles Sim albeit browse at edge speeds.

 

[DarwinOSX]

I wonder if the whole Verizon/ATT LTE business is because of some arbitrary software lock or something?

I thought the chipset Apple is using pretty much supports all the bands.... Did the major carriers pressure Apple into locking certain bands? I wonder how this came about....

LTE could easily be universal. The carriers don't want that. The radios can work with different bands.

 

[RetiredInFl]

We are talking about two completely different models here:

1. The Factory unlocked version of the iphone 4S that retails for $649 and is purchased directly from Apple
2. The locked VZ model purchased for $199, that can have its sim unlocked for international carriers

Yes a "Verizon 4S" model will not work on AT&T or Sprint, even if unlocked, because this is a VZ model that has been subsidized by Verizon.

Whereas, buying a Factory Unlocked 4S directly from apple for $649 has no carrier affiliation whatsoever.

As pointed out by others and myself, the only reason you cannot use the $649 4S on VZ is because VZ's corporate policy is to not permit any CDMA handset that is not in their database on their network. For example, the reason I cannot use Sprint's galaxy SII on VZ is not because of any lock, rather, because VZ refuses to allow it.

Both cellular ipads 1 & 2 are sold with the baseband unlocked and allowed me to just pop in a T-mobiles Sim albeit browse at edge speeds.

Whatever! This is silly. It's ALL based on ASSUMPTIONS! No one here designed the thing or knows what their intent was. This discussion for which NO ONE knows for sure will end tomorrow at the latest.

I truly hope you're right and I am wrong.

 

[aperry]

I'm kind of surprised that none of the reviews that rolled in today included this information. None of these guys thought to try it out?

 

[profets]

LTE could easily be universal. The carriers don't want that. The radios can work with different bands.

The current chipsets used in the iPad are technically not able to do this.

AT&T uses 2 LTE bands and Verizon uses a different LTE band from those two along with a need for cdma/evdo. The current chipset cannot accomodate both configurations into 1 device.

 

[aka777]

Whatever! This is silly. It's ALL based on ASSUMPTIONS! No one here designed the thing or knows what their intent was. This discussion for which NO ONE knows for sure will end tomorrow at the latest.

I truly hope you're right and I am wrong.

I think people forget that there are actually 4 main models of the iphone 4s sold in the US:

1. AT&T - subsidized & locked
2. Verizon - subsidized & locked
3. Sprint - subsidized & locked
4. Factory Unlocked - not subsidized

The Ipad 2 had three models

1. Wifi
2. Wifi + CDMA
3. Wifi + WCDMA / GSM - unlocked

 

[profets]

Whatever! This is silly. It's ALL based on ASSUMPTIONS! No one here designed the thing or knows what their intent was. This discussion for which NO ONE knows for sure will end tomorrow at the latest.

I truly hope you're right and I am wrong.

I'd say the arguments he made are based on logic, not assumptions.

But I agree, we won't know for certain until someone tries.

 

[RetiredInFl]

I'd say the arguments he made are based on logic, not assumptions.

But I agree, we won't know for certain until someone tries.

The biggest assumption is that BOTH these devices are truly unlocked. NOWHERE does it state they are. The logic would be IF we knew they were both unlocked. Neither one is advertised as unlocked although we know the ATT (pure GSM bands) one is because it is being sold overseas and the VZW one is not being sold overseas. Even though the VZW one can be used "anywhere in the world" that does NOT mean the GSM side of the VZW one is unlocked for use inside the US. That is strictly an assumption (based on facts that do not exist).

That being said this is my FINAL comment on this because we are just going around in circles.

 

[profets]

The biggest assumption is that BOTH these devices are truly unlocked. NOWHERE does it state they are. The logic would be IF we knew they were both unlocked. Neither one is advertised as unlocked although we know the ATT (pure GSM bands) one is because it is being sold overseas and the VZW one is not being sold overseas. Even though the VZW one can be used "anywhere in the world" that does NOT mean the GSM side of the VZW one is unlocked for use inside the US. That is strictly an assumption (based on facts that do not exist).

That being said this is my FINAL comment on this because we are just going around in circles.

Lol, come on, we need to at least keep it going until someone finally tries an at&t sim in the verizon model.

 

[RetiredInFl]

Lol, come on, we need to at least keep it going until someone finally tries an at&t sim in the verizon model.

 

[JoJoCal19]

I will be going to the AT&T store to get a SIM if I can get one for free, then I'll try. Not going to pay $15 for one if it may not work.

 

[Adelphos33]

I am not sure I buy either of these.

1) What directions? Are you referring to the data plans? They are specific to LTE. This discussion has nothing to do with LTE as I think it's common knowledge that ATT LTE will *not* work in the Verizon iPad.

2) I don't know why billing would be complicated? Your ATT bill is tied to the sim card. Pop it in the Verizon iPad and you're data continues to be measured and billed by ATT. Right?

1) The directions on the Apple store about purchasing. It clearly states that in order to use the AT&T or the Verizon network, you have to purchase the corresponding iPad devices.

2) How will the Verizon iPad know when to switch from the CDMA network to the AT&T sim? Also, IIRC, there is actual software in the "settings' menu that lets you purchase iPad data plans. Will the Verizon software work with an AT&T sim? Will you have to activate the AT&T sim in an AT&T iPad?

Honestly, does any phone or tablet work simultaneously with both Verizon CDMA and AT&T HSPA/3G/whatever they call it? I've never seen one. You may be able to software hack the Verizon Ipad to work in this fashion, but I doubt it is available out of the box.

 

[aperry]

1) The directions on the Apple store about purchasing. It clearly states that in order to use the AT&T or the Verizon network, you have to purchase the corresponding iPad devices.

2) How will the Verizon iPad know when to switch from the CDMA network to the AT&T sim? Also, IIRC, there is actual software in the "settings' menu that lets you purchase iPad data plans. Will the Verizon software work with an AT&T sim? Will you have to activate the AT&T sim in an AT&T iPad?

Honestly, does any phone or tablet work simultaneously with both Verizon CDMA and AT&T HSPA/3G/whatever they call it? I've never seen one. You may be able to software hack the Verizon Ipad to work in this fashion, but I doubt it is available out of the box.

I think everything you just wrote is invalidated by the fact that the new iPads are unlocked outside of the US and designed to work on a variety of international networks. So that would necessitate that 1) the iPad can obviously work on non-Verizon networks at least internationally, despite the helpful note they have during the purchase process, and 2) clearly it must have logic built in to enable switching between networks.

I'm not stating that I know the answer to question at the heart of this thread. But I'm just not convinced that your explanations should lead us to believe it won't work.