Utah Passes Child Safety Law Requiring Apple to Verify User Age

[bradman83]

Do you really trust Google to delete all the id information aside from age? I don’t.

And even just the age can be used for targeted advertising or selling of user data. There’s no way to only say “I’m over 18” without handing over your exact age.

There's very little information on your ID that Google wouldn't be able to get from other sources, except perhaps your eye color and height (targeted marketing for pants anyone?). But here's the thing, Google cares less about who you are and more about what you're interested in and looking to buy. Your drivers license number and expiration date are meaningless to them but the fact that you might want to book a trip to Sheboygan or that you've been reading reviews to find the best curling iron is gold to them. Your browsing and app usage history is way more valuable than anything on your drivers license.

 

[Astuces iOS]

Good, the entire world should do this !

 

[surferfb]

Funny how you went straight to porn but okay. Plenty of other things that’s have been blocked due to “the children”. If I have to validate my age I should be able to consume anything anyone wants to publish.

If you’re telling me Apple should be forced to sell things it doesn’t want to, I couldn’t disagree more.

Doubly so if Apple is being forced to “validate your age” by a law it opposes to begin with.

 

[HylianKnight]

You go to bank, opening bank account or applying for any credit product, you hand over your IDs for verification.

You go to vote, you need show your ID. You go purchase a car, you almost always need drivers licence.

So why are you dead against showing ID?

I can never understand the underlying logic for such.

Flashing your id at the store is not the same as a company storing your private information in a database.

 

[dominiongamma]

Good, the entire world should do this !

Government can stay out of our lives, look at the EU mess Apple has to deal with it

 

[Rogifan]

Can you buy alcohol in the US over the internet without having to verify your age? The one time I purchased a bottle of wine I had to pick it up at a FedEx delivery and show my ID.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

My concern is how this will be enforced.

Forcing someone to hand over sensitive info in order to download apps is a violation of privacy, and that info could be used against the user if some three letter agency foreign or domestic asks for a subpoena.

I will say that I prefer this over other forms of age verification online, but I'm still leery of this.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Can you get liquor or porn at Best Buy where they sell TV's?

The App Store doesn't allow porn apps.

 

[mansplains]

This could be integrated with DLs in Apple Wallet. No need to actually provide the data to an app or website, rather Apple acting like a bouncer. A simple handshake recognizing the user as an adult.

 

[antiprotest]

This.

I’m not in favor of this law, but if the choice is Apple has to do it or the developers have to - sorry Apple, I want you to do it.

But at this time, it will make no difference to the developers, unless all the other states also require this from Apple (which they don't, yet), or unless Apple automatically apply this to all other states (which they won't, yet).

 

[antiprotest]

Having Apple and Google verify the age of app buyers is analogous to retailers verifying the age of liquor and cigarette buyers.

I'd imagine a lot of people would rather have Apple handle the verification data than the app developers.

A difference is that I do not have to hand over a copy of my records to the store. So, I'd hope that once Apple verifies the age, it doesn't keep the record or image of whatever data it received to verify the age, but the only remaining record is that I passed the check. I'm not in Utah, so not my problem yet.

 

[Astuces iOS]

Government can stay out of our lives, look at the EU mess Apple has to deal with it

I agree EU is messy since they are just forcing things which doesn’t make a huge deal but this thing in Utah has actually good reasons to exist!

 

[dredlew]

You go to bank, opening bank account or applying for any credit product, you hand over your IDs for verification.

You go to vote, you need show your ID. You go purchase a car, you almost always need drivers licence.

So why are you dead against showing ID?

I can never understand the underlying logic for such.

Because you are there in person. It’s reasonable to ask for ID. The information isn’t stored unless they already have your information on file.

Online it’s a whole different story. For the same reason why PronHub now blocks access in several states that mandate age verification. If they collected all this sensitive information, they would just open themselves up to being hacked, sooner or later. Class action lawsuits will follow, naturally. Not a risk any company willingly wants to take on.

 

[pcc1]

Dumb laws aside, why make it only apply to Apple? So, it’s okay for “kids to be unsafe” on other brands.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Dumb laws aside, why make it only apply to Apple? So, it’s okay for “kids to be unsafe” on other brands.

It applies to the Play Store too.

 

[Hewhowalksbehindtherows]

Who is buying the devices for kids? They're not responsible for what the kids to on these devices, but Apple is? This is wildly stupid.

 

[Ctrlos]

A much more sensible option would be to ask for ID at the point of retail. Phones are how we interact with society but really kids don’t need one before secondary school (12+ in the UK)

It should be a national legal requirement for parents to have controls set up on children’s phones with Apple and Google building in a geo-fencing system for kids so that they only ever have limited call/text functionality when on school grounds. They all have GPS that works outside of mobile data.

The issue isn’t Apple collecting ID or whatever but parents not setting controls on their children’s digital lifestyles.

 

[frostymason]

A much more sensible option would be to ask for ID at the point of retail.

How does checking the age of a buyer at the first sale of a phone prove the age of the user when a few years later the phone is sold on secondhand or passed on to family?

 

[frostymason]

Once Apple verifies a person's age (should only need to be done once), there's no reason for Apple to retain that data.

You seriously expect the authorities to simply accept Apple/Google’s word that they checked since Apple/Google hadn’t retained the proof they had checked?

 

[Baslea]

Instead of proper parenting. Swell. Put the responsibility on Apple. 😡

Seems like you didn't get any parenting at all. Otherwise you wouldn't write such a bs. Let me guess, if children enter these fancy ice-trucks it's also them/their parents to blame. Right?

you clearly are comparing apples to bananas in your examples.
Do you show your ID when you purchase a TV?
Do you show your ID when you create an account on MR?
shall I go on?

Theoretically yes. If the sales clerk has the doubt that you're above 18 (most countries here in Europe) they are by law not even allowed to sell it to you, therefore they will ask for ID. If the sales clerk assumes you're over 18, which is pretty obvious when you purchase a more 100ish-TV, then I don't see any need to. For digital goods it's completely different as there is no one checking.

 

[Big_D]

I've been following this for a couple of months and it is just stupid. Why not require parents to use parental controls and add the kids accounts to the family? The device knows that the user is then a child, no more information required. Protecting the children is the responsibility of the parents in the first instance, so they should be ensuring that they use the provided parental controls.

Also, how does this stop children logging on using a desktop PC and a web browser?

It really hasn't been thought through.

 

[frostymason]

Why not require parents to use parental controls and add the kids accounts to the family?

Is your proposition is to introduce a law that requires parents to use parental controls?

If so that should be interesting with the police checking children's phones to ensure their parents have correctly set them up and then penalising the parents if they haven't.

Or is it that you just trust/hope that parents will use the parental controls, because if so, then they are clearly not doing that at the moment.

 

[Big_D]

This.

I’m not in favor of this law, but if the choice is Apple has to do it or the developers have to - sorry Apple, I want you to do it.

Don't Apple and Google already do this with their children's accounts? Surely it is up to the parent to set up their account as a child account in the family group and the device knows that they are a minor? Why would anything else above and beyond be necessary?

 

[Big_D]

Is your proposition is to introduce a law that requires parents to use parental controls?

If so that should be interesting with the police checking children's phones to ensure their parents have correctly set them up and then penalising the parents if they haven't.

Or is it that you just trust/hope that parents will use the parental controls, because if so, then they are clearly not doing that at the moment.

Putting the burden on someone else, because the parents aren't doing their "job" of protecting their children is the wrong way, we should be educating parents, not excusing their lack of care for their offspring.

 

[Shirasaki]

This isn’t going to go well and Apple will likely sue the state at this point.

Would not be surprised if Apple loses, rather than complying, they would just remove the App Store or even iTunes or any of Apple’s service from working in Utah, just like they did in UK where instead of complying, Apple just removed the advanced end to end iCloud encryption altogether.

Geolocking inside US? That is going to be wild, especially after successful implementation.