Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Valve Ordered to Give Apple Information on 436 Steam Games As Part of Epic Games Legal Case
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Mobile doesn't have higher overall prices for software versus consoles or PC. In fact, many of the games that appear on consoles and PC never appear on mobile specifically because the pricing structure on mobile is too low. For example, games like Witcher 3 and Elder Scrolls: Skyrim were ported to Nintendo Switch (which uses ARM) and not to iOS. Why? Because Switch supports the higher prices those ports require in order to be viable.
I don't think that's accurate. Buying an iPhone or iPad doesn't prevent you from also buying a console or desktop/laptop. Epic themselves proved this by running adverts telling Fortnite users on iOS to play Fortnite other platforms, so it's not like Epic views owning other gaming platforms as being impossible or even unlikely.
But they're nothing alike.
On my PC (or even mac) I can run Valve's Steam store, the native Windows/Mac store, the Epic store, and a multitude of others.
On an iPhone, I can only run 1 store software, the native Apple one.
Apple doesn't even let you create an app that can show you apps to buy, even if you buy them through the app store.
OK fine, then Apple should have to pay for Valve's time in assembling the proof. If Apple wins at trial, they can include Valve's compensation in their demand for the costs of their legal defense.
What happens if the disclosure of Valve's data gives Epic a competitive advantage in the future? Will they be compensated for their loss? I don't even know how you would go about calculating the damages.
It's not fair (nor legal, I think) for Apple to get Valve's data while Epic doesn't. Each side is entitled to see the evidence. This is so messed up.
You say that but there are several regulators keeping quiet about similar mergers and other monopolistic moves. I like to think some powers that be have constituents' interest in mind but with an abundance of lobbyists money talks.
Although I agree with the your assertion about this buyout in particular not happening.
No. This is part of the cost of doing business. And even epic didn’t claim it would take multiple employees full time. Their attorney said it was one guy generating some database queries.
In some cases the court would require that the requesting party pay. Nobody asked for that here.
Only outside counsel and experts can see the data. Nobody who works for epic or Apple.
It’s not true that they are “nothing alike.” They are alike in some ways and different in others. And epic’s experts will point that out. And then the court or jury will decide whether they are similar enough for any data derived from this to matter.
But in America you don’t pre-decide the case and then tell the defendant what evidence he or she is allowed to investigate.
Well, somebody will have to pay for that upfront; otherwise there will be no work done.
Otherwise it would be possible to take somebody to court over some nonsense and have companies in the same field disclose their sales figures. Even if it's a court order it'd be ridiculous if this wasn't paid (possibly by the unsuccessful party at the latest). If not, it could be an early example of a denial of service attack on competitors we'll see a few times in the future.
H.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but no, nobody outside of Valve is paying for this. The cost to Valve is something that the court took into account - if it was deemed unduly burdensome, the judge would not have ruled the way he did. There was discussion about all this at the hearing yesterday.
And you can’t use this as a “denial of service attack” for exactly that reason - the court weighs the burden on the third party against the relevance of the information, the ability for the requesting party to get the information elsewhere, how badly the requesting party needs the information, etc. And, in some cases (fairly rare), the requesting party will pay some of the costs of getting the information, typically in situations where there is something much more involved than querying a database and tabulating data.
Once this becomes Common Knowledge, it has the potential to bite Apple BIG time !
They clearly have OVER-stepped their bounds !
On the flip-side, IMO, ALL AAPL Shareholders & ALL AAPL App Devs should have access to the same per-Category Revenue numbers that APPL Mgmt has access to, & this move by Apple can be used by someone else who has a battle against them, to Force Apple to make that Info public, & preferably, ON a per-week basis !
They clearly have OVER-stepped their bounds !
On the flip-side, IMO, ALL AAPL Shareholders & ALL AAPL App Devs should have access to the same per-Category Revenue numbers that APPL Mgmt has access to, & this move by Apple can be used by someone else who has a battle against them, to Force Apple to make that Info public, & preferably, ON a per-week basis !
Apple crossed the line, you never f with Valve! Meanwhile, Epic and Apple are working together the kill their common enemy, which is Valve. Valve is the biggest and the best game store. Epic wants to be just that, just like Apple.
I hope Valve can have justice in this case, they have nothing to do with Epic or Apple
I hope Valve can have justice in this case, they have nothing to do with Epic or Apple
That’s a dirty thing to do imo. It’s like asking a court to force your neighbor to show you his bank account.
No. It’s like asking a court to let your expert witness see your neighbor’s bank account, and making it contempt of court for your expert witness to show you the information.
This is outrageous. I hope Valve appeal. Valve have nothing to do with this case and as such should not be forced to divulge sensitive info to anyone.
Eh, for Sony and MS sure, but not Valve. Steam is a third party app store which is almost never installed by default. People download Steam because they want to use Steam.
I think the absolute most that might happen (still overwhelmingly unlikely) is that Valve could be required to offer non-Steam versions of Portal, Half-Life, etc. I doubt that would bother Valve very much. Most people would buy them on Steam anyway.
You’ve just invented a new legal principle that does not exist in the law. Instead, the law actually says that third parties who have nothing to do with a case can be forced to divulge sensitive information.
Rule 45. Subpoena
Yes - they can charge the legal amount it takes to Apple, and when apple wins this case against Apple, Epic will have to pay apple for that.
I'm not sure where Valve is located, but states have specific prices for these things. Valve can't ignore a third party subpoena.
Man, you have the patience of a saint. Thank you for the replies you have made in this conversation, even if you end up repeating yourself. 👍
It’s important that people have correct information about how the legal system works.
Last edited by a moderator: