Valve Ordered to Give Apple Information on 436 Steam Games As Part of Epic Games Legal Case

[Captain Trips]

You’ve just invented a new legal principle that does not exist in the law. Instead, the law actually says that third parties who have nothing to do with a case can be forced to divulge sensitive information.

Rule 45. Subpoena

www.law.cornell.edu

I think Epic will be reaching out to @Aeronauts to be the next witness in this case.

No disrespect to Aeronauts, just having fun about Epic's ongoing circus.

 

[GizmoDVD]

It’s important that people have correct information about how the legal system works.

I work in the industry and I'm amazed how people think Valve can just ignore a subpoena because they personally believe it's wrong.

 

[1258186]

You’ve just invented a new legal principle that does not exist in the law. Instead, the law actually says that third parties who have nothing to do with a case can be forced to divulge sensitive information.

Rule 45. Subpoena

www.law.cornell.edu

In which case the law is wrong and should be changed. The current system is being abused.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Never mind, super not getting into this here lol

 

[GizmoDVD]

Never mind, super not getting into this here lol

Please don't. You hate Apple and still keep posting over and over

 

[cmaier]

In which case the law is wrong and should be changed. The current system is being abused.

How is it being abused, exactly? Certainly not in this case, where valve has evidence critical to Apple’s defense, and which was rendered relevant because of a specific claim that Epic is asserting in its case against Apple.

 

[Konrad9]

It has everything to do with Valve. Valve are Epics biggest competitor and the biggest game store and they started the 30% cut. So Apple will be able to show that Value did not change its cut and games did not get cheeper when Epic opened up. They might even get to bring up all the times Epic has caused harm to Value customers by pulling a game into an exclusively deal when it already has millions of pre-orders in Steam(Anno 1800).

Uhhhh doesn't everyone love to point out that Apple started the 30% cut?

 

[GermanSuplex]

I hope this ends up costly for Epic. I agree that Apple could maybe find a better way to do things. A public pressure campaign is the way to go. Other apps have thrived on the App Store via making signup through their website mandatory or simply abiding by the App Store rules. It’s Apple’s platform and I can’t for the life of me understand how Apple’s service that it provides to both consumers and developers isnt allowed to be ran as they see fit.

 

[Konrad9]

Yes, they should. And I would rethink your argument/statement here. It's not entirely clear what you are saying.

So Valve will get to see Apple's data, right? And if Valve's data is made public then Apple's will, too?

 

[Konrad9]

The problem is they _are_ involved. Epic is suing Apple, and parts of their arguments are that Apple supposedly has a monopoly, and that Apple is supposedly overcharging. If Apple can say that Valve charges the same or similar to Apple, then the overcharging argument can go away. It's quite unfortunate for Valve, and they haven't done anything wrong, but quite legal as well.

It's like there's a traffic accident near your shop and you get a subpoena for all your security footage. It's unfortunate for you, it costs you money when you have done nothing wrong, but you still have to supply the data.

It's like if there's a traffic accident near you and they subpoena you for the outside security footage and inside security footage for the last 6 months.

I'd pay good money to see the reaction of Apple fanatics if this had been Google vs Epic or Microsoft vs Epic and they had sent Apple subpoenas for their data. Y'all would have, rightfully, gone nuts over the massive overreach and irrelevancy.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

As such it's not EPICs fault that Valve has to hand out data TO THEIR COMPETITOR.

Apple is Valve’s competitor? In what market? While I wait, I’m doing a search of the Mac App Store to see if I find anything there that’s ALSO on Steam (I’m not actually, because I know the answer

 

[Konrad9]

I think Valve will be terrified of a ruling that Apple must set its prices for app store services on a reasonable / cost plus basis. It's not much of a leap from that kind of judgment to Valve having it used against it to batter down it's margins on PC.

I love that Apple make great products, but their App store approach feels like it's going to end up poisoning the well for Valve, Sony, MS, et al. and might even risk its breakup.

Also, Steam is not the only app store on Windows or macOS. ALSO, you don't have to use Steam to buy or play games on Windows. You don't even have to use an app store, you can just download **** through a browser.

Huh... browsers. Why does that ring a bell.

Oh right! Because Microsoft got kicked in the teeth a while back for "forcing" users to use IE and pre-packing IE into Windows.

It's a good thing Apple doesn't force users to use a browser or pack one in with iOS or macOS. (if you think Chrome on iOS isn't Safari I have some news for you, it is)

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I'd pay good money to see the reaction of Apple fanatics if this had been Google vs Epic or Microsoft vs Epic and they had sent Apple subpoenas for their data. Y'all would have, rightfully, gone nuts over the massive overreach and irrelevancy.

It all depends on the rationale, actually. I mean, if the judge said “There’s someone on MacRumors who’ll pay good money to see the reaction of the Apple fanatics soooo, yeah, umma do that and pocket them dollars!” THEN it’s rightfully. If it was based on legal requirements and precedence, then there would have been going nuts, but wrongfully.

 

[cmaier]

It's like if there's a traffic accident near you and they subpoena you for the outside security footage and inside security footage for the last 6 months.

I'd pay good money to see the reaction of Apple fanatics if this had been Google vs Epic or Microsoft vs Epic and they had sent Apple subpoenas for their data. Y'all would have, rightfully, gone nuts over the massive overreach and irrelevancy.

It’s not at all like that. In fact, they are getting the detailed data only starting one year prior to epic entering competition against valve, so that the experts have a baseline. The discovery being provided is very targeted to exactly what is required to disprove Epic’s claim that when Epic starts competing in a software market, the price of apps decreases.

 

[cmaier]

So Valve will get to see Apple's data, right? And if Valve's data is made public then Apple's will, too?

Valve is not a party to the case, so they cannot issue any subpoenas.

And Apple will not get to see Valve’s data, so I am not sure what is so problematic about this for you. Only Apple’s outside counsel and expert witnesses get to see it, and if they leak it they will be in contempt of the court’s protective order, and will be punished accordingly.

 

[ksec]

How is that legal? Why involve a company that has nothing to do with a legal battle of two other companies exposing their own company data? Seems messed up to me

It turns out this is legal in US. I was surprised too.

Subpoena - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Knight_wolf]

Consoles charge 30% as well as other digital stores, Apple is going after valve because it’s not public and apple wants to make a point about 30%

not just other digital store, brick and motor also does the 30%/70%

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut-is-actually-the-industry-standard if what IGN said is true back in 2019 it basically mean epic games is the only store that takes under

Epic would also have to go after every store like walmart & besbuy as well as nintendo & playstation

 

[Wildkraut]

It turns out this is legal in US. I was surprised too.

Subpoena - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sadly yes, because:

The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Please don't. You hate Apple and still keep posting over and over

My reply had nothing to do with Apple. But thanks for the positive reply that isn’t condescending at all I appreciate it bud 😂😂

That being said I disagree with this ruling and think that Apple’s business terrible practices are on perfect display here. Sorry not sorry, you’ll have to deal with it

 

[Knight_wolf]

Never mind, super not getting into this here lol

this is how you show off the first 1/4 - 1/3 of games are are all epic free games they gave away

But if you have Twitch Prime all those games came with it, same games as epic gave away, even on humble bundle and steam some not all on the list where also free and Uplay the only game i bought was Black Flag, rest was free


Epic is strange since there given away free games that where already free 2-3 times before, i don't think they realized that or they did and tried to pull people over

I really want to compare Epic games and Valve data to see if people are actually buying games from epic games with this it kinda shows if you collected all the free games else where there is almost no point to use epic games

 

[cmaier]

Sadly yes, because:
View attachment 1735135

The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is nothing anti-democratic about due process in court.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

this is how you show off the first 1/4 - 1/3 of games are are all epic free games they gave awayView attachment 1735155
View attachment 1735156

But if you have Twitch Prime all those games came with it, same games as epic gave away, even on humble bundle and steam some not all on the list where also free and Uplay the only game i bought was Black Flag, rest was free


Epic is strange since there given away free games that where already free 2-3 times before, i don't think they realized that or they did and tried to pull people over

I really want to compare Epic games and Valve data to see if people are actually buying games from epic games with this it kinda shows if you collected all the free games else where there is almost no point to use epic games

Yeah you’re definitely right on that - most people I’ve talked to that have an Epic account basically only have it because of either exclusives or giveaways. It’s legitimately difficult finding someone who prefers Epic over Steam.

 

[reyesmac]

When I open microsoft office 365 downloaded through the app store, it asks me to log into my microsoft account. It redirects me to microsofts store to purchase a subscription through them and not Apple. Why can't Fortnite do the same thing? Just have the user activate and make purchases through their web store like microsoft and adobe can. If the rules are not the same for everyone then I hope Apple is forced to be more fair.

 

[CubeHacker]

I'm sure valve will have their very best employees working around the clock to provide this data 😂

 

[cmaier]

I'm sure valve will have their very best employees working around the clock to provide this data 😂

Well the court gave Valve a deadline not too far off from now, so they better put whoever they need onto it, lest they be sanctioned by the court.