Ventura settings app is absolutely terrible for finding basic settings. Case in point: Energy Saver

[Mr Screech]

sure, sometimes change sucks. but progress... is a great thing, always.

personally, i like the new settings, am not alone in that (hmmm... apple must like it), and it's the way forward. am glad apple takes us new places; life, as an adventure, is more fun, exciting, and valuable (imho) than sitting still...

The settings designchange on macos is a bad thing, it was obviously made for phones that mainly use scrolling lists with single toggles. I'm not surprised, apple has made sub-par decisions for macos for a while now.

You sound like the "Just consume, don't ask questions." meme.

 

[jgbr]

I’m trying to remember a time someone seriously complained about system Preferences as it was…. Oh they didn’t. Didn’t Windows control panel remain the same and got changed and is still an issue where the old control panel is around? Underlines the point that something so critical shouldn’t be mucked around with.

 

[GlenK]

I don't have a problem with change, I just don't like to be there when it happens! (Adrian Monk)

 

[CasualFanboy]

sure, sometimes change sucks. but progress... is a great thing, always.

personally, i like the new settings, am not alone in that (hmmm... apple must like it), and it's the way forward. am glad apple takes us new places; life, as an adventure, is more fun, exciting, and valuable (imho) than sitting still...

Yeah change can be exciting and adventurous.

Marrying my lovely wife. The birth of my children. Getting a new job. Learning a new skill.

System Preferences -> System Settings? Nah

 

[fisherking]

System Preferences -> System Settings? Nah

i'm starting to think you don't like the new settings... 🤔

regardless, this is the way forward. so again, you'll adapt. or complain then adapt. (my guess is, some ppl here on the forum will just keep complaining until they tire themselves out). but they'll still have to adapt.

anyway, let's not go in circles anymore. respond, i promise i won't anymore 🙏

 

[jgbr]

The settings designchange on macos is a bad thing, it was obviously made for phones that mainly use scrolling lists with single toggles. I'm not surprised, apple has made sub-par decisions for macos for a while now.

Exactly, if you want a phone experience / iOS experience than use it. The Mac should be kept a separate thing.

 

[Peter_M]

first, you discover the changes that were made. then, you know where to find things, and life goes on. that is simple.

I've used Ventura on my MacBook Pro for a few weeks now, and the new settings menu isn't that bad really. You can always search for functions, which makes things easier. The new menu system is definitely more Windows-y IMO, but overall it's fine.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

It takes some time to get used to but it is indeed ok.

 

[CasualFanboy]

The new menu system is definitely more Windows-y IMO

For a while, and accelerating with Big Sur's UI overhaul, everything about MacOS is getting more Windows-y. The appearance, design patterns, and quality.

Either more like Windows, or more like a phone interface. But always less like that old classic and unique OSX style that is hard to describe. And that might be part of the problem - it is hard to describe and it's not formulaic, quantifiable, focus-groupable. There was an art to OSX's overall aesthetic and design style. It can't be reproduced or even maintained by people like Tim Cook.

Maybe some people are fine with that or even think it's good, but I hate it.

 

[jgbr]

If I wanted the phone interface then I'd use the phone. Remember SJ explaining the core was OSX but made for a small screen. Likewise OSX was made for the point of a Mac and bigger screens. Trying to make them alike is just ruining it. There's a threshold of where some 'alikeness' and integration is useful and then going too far in one direction. Personally I wish they would bug fix than make cosmetic changes. There are bug's I still deal with today that have been around for many iterations.

 

[CasualFanboy]

If I wanted the phone interface then I'd use the phone. Remember SJ explaining the core was OSX but made for a small screen. Likewise OSX was made for the point of a Mac and bigger screens. Trying to make them alike is just ruining it. There's a threshold of where some 'alikeness' and integration is useful and then going too far in one direction. Personally I wish they would bug fix than make cosmetic changes. There are bug's I still deal with today that have been around for many iterations.

I have never understood the obsession with "convergence" between two devices that are too different to compare in a meaningful way.

A phone is designed to be carried in pockets which severely limits screen size, peripherals, and input methods. You can look at a phone and immediately see the limitations which led to some of the design decisions. It's easier to scroll vertically than horizontally, so phones are designed with more horizontal vertical space and applications tend to be formatted in a list style.

Because of the space and peripheral device limitations, phones aren't designed for viewing multiple things at once.

Since the primary method of interaction is touch, there are unique requirements for the spacing of visual elements so that you don't constantly hit the wrong thing with your fingers (which is still a problem for me anyway).

So you take all these limitations and then make them the driver of design decisions for a laptop or desktop that has no such constraints?

 

[jgbr]

I have never understood the obsession with "convergence" between two devices that are too different to compare in a meaningful way.

A phone is designed to be carried in pockets which severely limits screen size, peripherals, and input methods. You can look at a phone and immediately see the limitations which led to some of the design decisions. It's easier to scroll vertically than horizontally, so phones are designed with more horizontal space and applications tend to be formatted in a list style.

Because of the space and peripheral device limitations, phones aren't designed for viewing multiple things at once.

Since the primary method of interaction is touch, there are unique requirements for the spacing of visual elements so that you don't constantly hit the wrong thing with your fingers (which is still a problem for me anyway).

So you take all these limitations and then make them the driver of design decisions for a laptop or desktop that has no such constraints?

This is why I am baffled by the choice to change System Preferences. It's clear using the touchpad or mouse that the original and well established one was aimed to support that, wider screens and faster ability to click through things.

This new one is exactly like settings in iOS but in doing so a lot of scrolling and dragging of toggles which are far longer in the HCI than the previous system. It's lazy, it was easy for them to think in those terms and it suggests that the Mac OS team are out of ideas if borrowing from the iOS team. They really need to get back to basics, bug fix and push out the time gaps between Mac OS iterations.

 

[CasualFanboy]

This is why I am baffled by the choice to change System Preferences. It's clear using the touchpad or mouse that the original and well established one was aimed to support that, wider screens and faster ability to click through things.

This new one is exactly like settings in iOS but in doing so a lot of scrolling and dragging of toggles which are far longer in the HCI than the previous system. It's lazy, it was easy for them to think in those terms and it suggests that the Mac OS team are out of ideas if borrowing from the iOS team. They really need to get back to basics, bug fix and push out the time gaps between Mac OS iterations.

It's worse than that. If the problem was just a crop of morons making bad design decisions, they could just be fired and replaced.

But this problem is more systemic. Apple has decided to ride the gravy train and let the LCD dominate everything they do. More people buy phones, they buy them more often, and they're easier to please.

So the main goal with macos is simply to... make ios users like it more, I guess. 🙁

 

[jgbr]

I think in windows the old control panel can still be accessed (?) ; be nice if we had the same in Ventura. Any brave dev/modder up for the challenge, speak up!

 

[fisherking]

I think in windows the old control panel can still be accessed (?) ; be nice if we had the same in Ventura. Any brave dev/modder up for the challenge, speak up!

yikes. then what? re-do that everytime there's an OS update? and what happens in the next OS? sooner or later, you're gonna have to adapt (and i'd say now, since there's a lot more to 'settings' then a fake 'system preferences' visual could cover; the structure is not the same).

maybe, time to give this a rest and move on? just a humble suggestion...

 

[dogface1956]

anyway, let's not go in circles anymore. respond, i promise i won't anymore 🙏

I thought you where not going to respond any more?

 

[fisherking]

I thought you where not going to respond any more?

it's good you posted this, so we keep the discussion on track.

i told that to casual fanboy, about a particular back-&-forth 'conversation' we were having. but am flattered that i am important enough to you that you'd endeavor to keep track of these things... 🤔

now, back to the subject at hand....

 

[w5jck]

but it IS there... which should be what matters most.

That is TOTAL BS. Changing the location of commands/settings is stupid and causes unnecessary confusion and frustration. A first year programmer should know that much. Apple simply doesn't care, nor do they think things through. We the users simply don't matter anymore...

 

[fisherking]

That is TOTAL BS. Changing the location of commands/settings is stupid and causes unnecessary confusion and frustration. A first year programmer should know that much. Apple simply doesn't care, nor do they think things through. We the users simply don't matter anymore...

what? lots of things change over time, and we then learn those new things. what about someone on their first mac now? and how hard is it to use the settings 'search' function? based on what you're saying, should the OS be the same as it was in 1999? 2005? what's the moment where you think things should not have progressed past? 🤔

apple is hugely successful, and that only happens by them having...users. 👍

 

[dogface1956]

it's good you posted this, so we keep the discussion on track.

i told that to casual fanboy, about a particular back-&-forth 'conversation' we were having. but am flattered that i am important enough to you that you'd endeavor to keep track of these things... 🤔

now, back to the subject at hand....

Don't be flattered, I was hoping we would stop seeing, your messages about change being good, that we'll get used to it, that everything Apple does is great and they must have a good reason for making the change. You've made your point, time to move on, nothing to see here.

 

[fisherking]

Don't be flattered, I was hoping we would stop seeing, your messages about change being good, that we'll get used to it, that everything Apple does is great and they must have a good reason for making the change. You've made your point, time to move on, nothing to see here.

i have never said i think 'everything Apple does is great', as i don't believe that. otherwise, i stand by the points i've made on this thread.

funny, tho; i was hoping we (whoever 'we' is) would stop seeing your endless posts whining about the same thing. how is that any better than my (endless) responses? something to think about 🤔

 

[dogface1956]

i have never said i think 'everything Apple does is great', as i don't believe that. otherwise, i stand by the points i've made on this thread.

funny, tho; i was hoping we (whoever 'we' is) would stop seeing your endless posts whining about the same thing. how is that any better than my (endless) responses? something to think about 🤔

Oh, I'm not whining I'm just complaining about your constant posts about how everyone needs to get used to it, that's the way it is, it not going to change, we'll adapt, it all about the what is under the hood, have a forgotten anything?. We get it, Apple is not going to change things because people are complaining about it, I think everyone who does not like the new System Settings knows that Apple is not going to change it back or even respond to the criticism, I just don't need to be reminded by your constant harping on Apple changed it, get used to it, you will adapt.

BTW if you look at my previous posts I clearly say that yes I know that Apple is not going to change it back, that I will adjust to it, but that I don't like it as well as the old System Preferences, that is my opinion and that is not going to change.

 

[fisherking]

Oh, I'm not whining I'm just complaining about your constant posts about how everyone needs to get used to it, that's the way it is, it not going to change, we'll adapt, it all about the what is under the hood, have a forgotten anything?. We get it, Apple is not going to change things because people are complaining about it, I think everyone who does not like the new System Settings knows that Apple is not going to change it back or even respond to the criticism, I just don't need to be reminded by your constant harping on Apple changed it, get used to it, you will adapt.

BTW if you look at my previous posts I clearly say that yes I know that Apple is not going to change it back, that I will adjust to it, but that I don't like it as well as the old System Preferences, that is my opinion and that is not going to change.

just to be clear: you can continue whining I MEAN complaining, but i can't continue to respond? hmmm. that's not how this works. and again, i stand by what i've said... just as you do. and it's ok for us to see things differently.

 

[Peter_M]

For a while, and accelerating with Big Sur's UI overhaul, everything about MacOS is getting more Windows-y. The appearance, design patterns, and quality.

Either more like Windows, or more like a phone interface. But always less like that old classic and unique OSX style that is hard to describe. And that might be part of the problem - it is hard to describe and it's not formulaic, quantifiable, focus-groupable. There was an art to OSX's overall aesthetic and design style. It can't be reproduced or even maintained by people like Tim Cook.

Maybe some people are fine with that or even think it's good, but I hate it.

You make a good point, and I agree. I find the new menu system being unnecessarily obtuse and complex (ie. worse designed than the old one), and thus going away from what makes MacOS so special. Same can be said about Apple's removal of iTunes, to the much inferior Music. It's like the newer Apple's engineers aren't quite as good as the previous ones.

Again, not a huge deal, but still..

 

[ForegroundBehind]

I know I'm in the minority but I'd love for a Retroactive-type program that changes the entire interface and makes the OS look more like a computer than an iPhone... I miss Catalina...