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Verizon iPhone 5 Will Not Offer Simultaneous Voice and Data [Update: It Was A Hardware Decision]

One thing...STOP SAYING YOU CAN'T DO SIMULTANEOUS VOICE AND DATA OVER 3G CDMA. The thunderbolt, galaxy SIII, and several other phones on Verizon do this just fine over 4G LTE AND regular old 3G. The network supports it perfectly. It is a phone issue and has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VERIZON NETWORK. AT&T HAS NO ADVANTAGES AT ALL! Nobody likes AT&T.
 
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emaja said:
I do.

Nobody likes generalizations.
Click to expand...

As for your comment it goes a little like this in the REAL WORLD.

Consumer Reports Big 4 National Carriers Customer Satisfaction

1. Verizon
2. T-Mobile
3. Sprint
4. AT&T

DEAD LAST FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.
NOBODY LIKES AT&T.
 
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bigsmithe05 said:
One thing...STOP SAYING YOU CAN'T DO SIMULTANEOUS VOICE AND DATA OVER 3G CDMA. The thunderbolt, galaxy SIII, and several other phones on Verizon do this just fine over 4G LTE AND regular old 3G. The network supports it perfectly. It is a phone issue and has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VERIZON NETWORK. AT&T HAS NO ADVANTAGES AT ALL! Nobody likes AT&T.
Click to expand...

I like AT&T pretty darn well, it works much better than Verizon in my area, the customer support is superior, and the plans a little better.

And you can't, those phones accomplish that with two radios. Two completely separate network sessions.
 
bigsmithe05 said:
As for your comment it goes a little like this in the REAL WORLD.

Consumer Reports Big 4 National Carriers Customer Satisfaction

1. Verizon
2. T-Mobile
3. Sprint
4. AT&T

DEAD LAST FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.
NOBODY LIKES AT&T.
Click to expand...

Again - I DO.

I have been with all 4 carriers and AT&T has BY far provided the best service FOR ME.

You seem to have trouble understanding that different people, in different areas, using different phones, and different travel patterns have a different experience then you do.

You simply cannot generalize when it comes to cellular service.
 
emaja said:
Again - I DO.

I have been with all 4 carriers and AT&T has BY far provided the best service FOR ME.

You seem to have trouble understanding that different people, in different areas, using different phones, and different travel patterns have a different experience then you do.

You simply cannot generalize when it comes to cellular service.
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Exactly! I just put together a little composite map of my state to show him WHY.
 

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Map looks virtually the same. I have been in area where Verizon claims no coverage and had service anyway. Keep your crappy AT&T. I'll keep these speeds on a true unlimited plan from Verizon. 15 gigs last month and I don't have that throttling garbage. Quit sucking up to sorry AT&T. They broke everyone's contracts illegally and throttle unlimited. NO ONE HAS UNLIMITED DATA ON AT&T. Keep their sorry service and let them do what they want to you. I laugh at AT&T customers.
 

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STC1709 said:
simultaneous voice and data is about as overrated as using a case for your phone. If I'm talking to someone on the phone, then why would I need to surf the net, at least show the guy on the other end some respect. I have maybe needed to use both ONCE in 2 years
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If I'm on the road and need to pull over to help a customer out, and need to tether to my phone so I can VPN into their network and talk to the customer to troubleshoot an issue, it becomes a big issue.
 
SeniorGato1 said:
How about the 5S or 5C?
Click to expand...

In iOS 7, even the 4S can do FaceTime audio, which travels over data, so if you call another iPhone-on-iOS7 user, you can do "simultaneous voice and data" because the voice is really traveling over data.

Other than that (aka: when using "regular" voice,) it's not clear. I can't find a reference to it anywhere. The limitation was claimed to be because it didn't have enough antennas to run both LTE-for-data and CDMA-for-voice at the same time. Which means that if *ANY* phone gets the capability, it would likely be the 5C, because it was redesigned sufficiently that it might have the extra antenna...
 
I'm hoping that with all the reshuffling internally of the logic board and other components, Apple has made room for an additional CDMA antenna to support both voice and data as every Verizon Android LTE already does. even pre iphone 5 release, Verizon Android supported both.
 
comp850 said:
Has anyone confirmed that the iPhone 5s/5c still has this limitation?
Click to expand...

Yes, the limitation was in the FCC docs I posted in another thread.

iphone_5sc_svlte.png

Here are the combinations that are available on the CDMA capable model, and which were tested:

iphone_5sc_sar.png

Notice that you only ever see CDMA or GSM or WCDMA or LTE separately (only one of those can transmit at a time )... plus WiFi or Bluetooth separately (only one of those can transmit at a time, since they share an antenna).

For SVLTE (Simultaneous Voice + LTE data), both the CDMA and LTE radios must be able to transmit at the same time.

GSM networks have the same problem as far as LTE goes... they also cannot do simultaneous voice + LTE data. However, GSM phones can drop back to WCDMA for simultaneous voice+data over 3G.
 
kdarling said:
Notice that you only ever see CDMA or GSM or WCDMA or LTE separately (only one of those can transmit at a time )... plus WiFi or Bluetooth separately (only one of those can transmit at a time, since they share an antenna).

For SVLTE (Simultaneous Voice + LTE data), both the CDMA and LTE radios must be able to transmit at the same time.

GSM networks have the same problem as far as LTE goes... they also cannot do simultaneous voice + LTE data. However, GSM phones can drop back to WCDMA for simultaneous voice+data over 3G.
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Hmmm. My understanding is SVLTE is a handset solution for voice and data over LTE only. But it is very power hungry and not likely to ever be used.

Instead CSFB (Circuit Switched Fallback) is the standard. Meaning falling back to old 2G or 3G networks for voice. WCDMA for ATT and CDMA for Verizon. Unfortunately Verizon is stuck with CDMA, but WCDMA allows for voice plus data.

I presume the Verizon solution of two antennas and two radios means a more power hungry solution compared to WCDMA. That may be another reason for Apple not to use it besides the antenna issue.

VoLTE is not a carrier preferred solution because of lost voice revenue in carrier plans.

Not sure about WiFi and BT not running at the same time. Seems to me I remember using WiFi internet radio and BT headsets together.

LTE is only a data packet protocol. I think CSFB will be around for some time and Verizon's network is at the disadvantage here.

It is not a GSM problem per se from my readings. Voice and data over LTE is a handset solution, with no network changes, that headset makers for both carriers prefer not to use because of increased expense and power consumption.
 
viewfly said:
Hmmm. My understanding is SVLTE is a handset solution for voice and data over LTE only.
Click to expand...

You're thinking of the future VoLTE. SVLTE is voice over CDMA and data over LTE.

But it is very power hungry and not likely to ever be used.
Click to expand...

Most Verizon smartphones with LTE (e.g. Samsung, Nokia) support SVLTE.... but not the iPhone.

Instead CSFB (Circuit Switched Fallback) is the standard. Meaning falling back to old 2G or 3G networks for voice.
Click to expand...

That's only for GSM.

Not sure about WiFi and BT not running at the same time. Seems to me I remember using WiFi internet radio and BT headsets together.
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Yes, but unknown to you, they were not transmitting at the same time.

Look around, and you'll see complaints from iPad owners about the WiFi speed dropping radically if a Bluetooth keyboard is hooked up.

This is true for every device, btw. It's because WiFi and Bluetooth share the same frequency space.
 
viewfly said:
I think you have the definitions wrong.
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Sorry, I think you have SVLTE and VoLTE backwards :)

SVLTE is specifically about voice over CDMA and data over LTE. The other major Verizon phones support it. (I have and use it on my Nexus, for example.)

Google SVLTE:

A protocol and technical standard that allows a phone to use both voice and data networks at the same time. Specifically, when the voice network is CDMA 1xRTT and the data network is LTE (4G.)
...
SVLTE will be less important when VoLTE (voice over LTE) launches on a large scale. This will allow both voice and data to operate seamlessly on one LTE network.

http://www.phonescoop.com/glossary/term.php?gid=509
Click to expand...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6295/...ous-voice-and-lte-or-evdo-svlte-svdo-support-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication)

etc.

It's okay. We all get things mixed up at times. No harm. No foul.
 
kdarling said:
Sorry, I think you have SVLTE and VoLTE backwards :)

SVLTE is specifically about voice over CDMA and data over LTE. The other major Verizon phones support it. (I have and use it on my Nexus, for example.)

Google SVLTE:



http://www.anandtech.com/show/6295/...ous-voice-and-lte-or-evdo-svlte-svdo-support-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication)

etc.

It's okay. We all get things mixed up at times. No harm. No foul.
Click to expand...

Yes, my early morning education on this did confused me. You're correct.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_(telecommunication)

So let me see if I have this right now.

Probably all LTE GSM phones (gsm iPhone included) use CSFB, meaning switching down to WCDMA for voice and data simultaneously.

Most Verizon phones use SVLTE, meaning two radios and two antennas, one for LTE data and the other for CDMA voice. And this is more power hungry given the duplication involved.

When the carrier network fully supports VoLTE, then both Verizon and ATT phones could operate the same way. Voice and data over LTE.

So I guess that Apple, having the desire to 1) make only one antenna based hardware design ( suspecting that the same chip is used in all frequency model differences today), and 2) not have a battery drain or expense difference between GSM and CDMA models, is betting on the longer term development of VoLTE leaving CDMA users in the lurch???

Probably mainly the first reason. Okay I get it now. I'm glad I started out with GSM in the US. Because I do like iPhones and data and voice working at the same time.

Regarding wifi and BT. I haven't really noticed that affect, but really haven't looked for it either. With the move to BT based speakers and of course wifi based music sources, this has to be done properly. I guess buffering etc is handling that.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
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