Verizon iPhone 5 Will Not Offer Simultaneous Voice and Data [Update: It Was A Hardware Decision]

[jamesryanbell]

I have that feature on Verizon ... just go with a phone that's not 2 years behind in technology.

If it's not an iPhone, I'm not really concerned with it. The phone is more important - in spades - than the carrier. All of the carriers will give reasonable service where I live. It's just a matter of what provider gives the best data transfer and best options *on iPhone*.

 

[jimi78]

The fact this only the iphone 5 has this limitation on verizon means its something to do with the single chip apple is using. No other LTE phone has this issue.

It seems like when on a call, only the CDMA and or GSM bands are working. Even on att, it drops you off of LTE and onto the 3g network.

I thought it was be a use VZN requires two antennas to do that but the iPhone already has two antennas for LTE or something like that.

 

[lilo777]

I spent quite a bit of time yesterday playing with both a GS3 and the Nokia Lumia. I liked the Lumia a lot. One can tell that Microsoft put a lot of work and thought into designing their OS. The GUI performance was very nice, smooth, polished. The hardware was nice, certainly better than what Samsung has. Not up to the iPhone level, but closer.

Samsung's GS3 was an absolute joke. Not only being made out of cheap plastic that felt like it would snap in two, but the performance of Android simply had me shaking my head in disappointment. Is this what you fandroid-koolaid drinkers defend? The performance was choppy, scrolling stutters, animation was crude, it's just pathetic in every way. Its so large you have to use two hands to use the device! Using the GS3 was painful. Google should be ashamed of themselves for making such a sloppy system. It's the ghetto of OS's

Shame on the fandroids for defending such a crappy system.

Voice and data at the same time, give me a break, that is such a useless feature.

The GUI sloppyness in Android was addresses in Jelly Bean which SGSIII is getting in a few weeks. There are many devices that one use with two hands - like iPad. Are they also painful to use? What is really painful - it's how to use 4" screen for anything but voice calls.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Apple: "Nobody needs live icons!!"

No it's more like they need to save something for iOS 7 and the iPhone 5S so everyone will upgrade again next year.

 

[barjam]

The GUI sloppyness in Android was addresses in Jelly Bean which SGSIII is getting in a few weeks. There are many devices that one use with two hands - like iPad. Are they also painful to use? What is really painful - it's how to use 4" screen for anything but voice calls.

Maybe it is time to check out android devices. Every one I have messed with was garbage due to the awful OS. Maybe they were all pre jelly bean.

The iPhone size is perfect for me I don't like the larger phones. I could see how a larger phone would be better at certain things though. It is a tradeoff. Up until now it has been a moot point as it was the only (opinion) usable phone. I will give the androids another look.

 

[nsayer]

Hey, FWIW, I live in VA's largest city, where Verizon has been selling LTE for coming up on a year (next month).

Attached is a the level of Verizon LTE service I get at my house.
My Verizon 4s, at the same spot, gets 4 bars of their voice/3G service.

Point being, just because they have a city marked as "LTE" doesn't necessarily mean that the LTE coverage there is either as thorough (or reliable) as their voice/3G network.

After my experience with Verizon LTE, I'd wish YOU good luck. Hopefully your area is covered better than mine. I'm personally paying the ETF with Verizon and moving back to AT&T (for the iPhone 5). AT&T doesn't even have LTE here yet, but their 3G network clocks in faster than Verizon's LTE network does, where I live and work.

I absolutely will not question your experience. I will only say that mine differs.

I live in Silicon Valley. If there's a center of the Internet, it's probably right around here somewhere. And AT&T just Does. Not. Work. I have gotten faster speed tests on EvDO with Verizon than I have on HSPA+ on AT&T. For real. And since I got an iPad 3 and lit up (Verizon) LTE with it, I've seen 30+ MB/sec speed tests. Seriously. Like a cable modem without wires.

Verizon's Microcell works flawlessly. We waited 2 years for AT&T to get their Microcell working and it never did.

It goes on and on.

 

[The Catalyst]

use every day:

1. while talking on the phone waiting for your friend at starbucks, your friend asked you "what is the address of starbuck u r at?" you look up the address and tell him.

2. you use GPS on the phone navigating while driving and talking handfree from it via Bluetooth

3. You talk on the phone while downloading song from iTune

4. Over the phone someone said he sends u an email, did you get it? You open ur mail and check....

5. You talk on the phone then u get a text message from another iPhone that require data, since iMessage does not use cellular but use data between iPhones. Do you never text/receive text/reply text during a call?? It happens all the time.

6. Check weather/traffic/stock while on call

7. use any app that require data (most do) while on a call

8. use WebEx or any other tele conference app that require you to use data and phone at the same time. (WebEx will dial to your cell phone. you answer the phone, turn on the app, then you see the desktop of the meeting host so he can present to you.)

webex.com

there are sooooo many other examples i seriously think u use this more than 3x a year. i use it every day.

It's like you're reading my mind.

I use my current Verizon 4G phone daily as a GPS unit while I'm on calls. If this is true, it looks like I'll be skipping this generation of the iPhone.

 

[MCAsan]

The Verizon problem is their legacy CDMA network. They could have simultaneous voice and data on LTE. But the when you roam out of LTE coverage and into the legacy CDMA...no simultaneous voice and data. That will equally a problem for any CDMA network that is trying to overlay/migrate to LTE.

If you have a choice, go with a carrier that has a GSM/WCDMA legacy network. The migration of carrier's infrastructure is much easier from GSM/WCDMA to LET and the subscriber's phone can roam outside North America using GSM/WCDMA.

 

[aristobrat]

I absolutely will not question your experience. I will only say that mine differs.

I live in Silicon Valley. If there's a center of the Internet, it's probably right around here somewhere. And AT&T just Does. Not. Work. I have gotten faster speed tests on EvDO with Verizon than I have on HSPA+ on AT&T. For real. And since I got an iPad 3 and lit up (Verizon) LTE with it, I've seen 30+ MB/sec speed tests. Seriously. Like a cable modem without wires.

Yeah, I've seen 30+ MB/sec speed tests here, when I was close to one of the towers that had LTE. And then I can go 5 miles up the road, and only get 3 MB/sec. It's amazingly inconsistent here, which surprises me for a market that Verizon's had LTE in for almost a year.

I just have a feeling that a lot of folks are blindly jumping to Verizon with the expectation that Verizon's LTE network in their area is going to be as strong as Verizon's voice/3G network, and wanted to give a heads up that in some markets, that's simply not the case.

 

[MCAsan]

Expecting a 4G LTE network to "day one" have the same coverage as the legacy network is at best, unrealistic. It takes hundreds of millions of dollars, and years of work, to update all the network Radio Base Stations (RBS) and implement an all IP switching/routing and backbone network to move from a 2G/3G world of separate voice and data to an all IP 4G network.

Also not all existing 3G/2G RBS sites will have physical room for 4G LTE equipment. If you are a legacy GSM/WCDMA network operator there is a good chance your vendors can upgrade those RBS cabinets with new ones that can do GSM, WCDMA, and LTE. If the legacy network is CDMA....the upgrade is not nearly that simple.

 

[The Catalyst]

The Verizon problem is their legacy CDMA network. They could have simultaneous voice and data on LTE. But the when you roam out of LTE coverage and into the legacy CDMA...no simultaneous voice and data. That will equally a problem for any CDMA network that is trying to overlay/migrate to LTE.

If you have a choice, go with a carrier that has a GSM/WCDMA legacy network. The migration of carrier's infrastructure is much easier from GSM/WCDMA to LET and the subscriber's phone can roam outside North America using GSM/WCDMA.

Yes, true. But unfortunately I'm already locked in w/ Verizon for the next year+ (with grandfathered unlimited data). I'll more than likely just sit out this round of updated iPhones.

 

[nsayer]

The Verizon problem is their legacy CDMA network. They could have simultaneous voice and data on LTE. But the when you roam out of LTE coverage and into the legacy CDMA...no simultaneous voice and data. That will equally a problem for any CDMA network that is trying to overlay/migrate to LTE.

If you have a choice, go with a carrier that has a GSM/WCDMA legacy network. The migration of carrier's infrastructure is much easier from GSM/WCDMA to LET and the subscriber's phone can roam outside North America using GSM/WCDMA.

Roaming will not be a problem with CDMA variants of the iPhone. They include a GSM/HSPA "world phone" capability, including a SIM slot. I had the option when purchasing my iPhone to include a Verizon SIM in it just for the purpose of having international GSM roaming as an option, but I haven't needed it.

As for the fallback to CDMA when placing a call, my understanding (this IS a rumor site, no?) is that before iPhone 6 it is likely that Verizon will begin to roll out VoLTE. If they do, then it will likely simply be a software update to add simultaneous voice/data to the iPhone 5 when on LTE networks.

I think in the last year as a Verizon customer there has been exactly two occasions when I have needed to hang up a voice call, send a picture MMS, then either get an answer via text or a call-back. It really has not come up that often as a barrier for me. I fully understand that my experience may differ from others', of course.

And now that there's facetime over cellular, that likely will be the better workaround.

 

[Rocketman]

LTE is fully capable of supporting simultaneous voice and data right this second using VoIP for voice.

Carriers REFUSE to enable that feature available on every iPhone ever, because it would impact the revenue stream from charging a separate and large fee for metered voice services.

The networks have been fully capable of supporting VoIP and data since they were installed with EDGE/2.5G sometime before 2004.

By sometime next week, every carrier that supports 2, 3, 4G data or LTE could give APPLE permission to do a software update to make VoIP the primary voice facility on iPhone and offer ALL voice, text, and data services over data signals alone.

“AT&T’s decision to block FaceTime unless a customer pays for voice and text minutes she doesn’t need is a clear violation of the FCC’s Open Internet rules,” said Free Press Policy Director Matt Wood. "It’s particularly outrageous that AT&T is requiring this for iPad users, given that this device isn’t even capable of making voice calls.

I guess this issue will come to a head, but I presume the carriers will prevail on a regulatory technicality since the cost structure they have now presumes they CAN force some people to buy voice and text services separately. They may simply increase the data plan charge and give them free to offset. How will you like that gents?

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/1...-regarding-facetime-over-cellular-limitation/

 

[Idefix]

Look at it this way: VZ iphone on LTE, if Apple had put in an extra antenna, then yes you could text and call at the same time.

Then you fall off LTE: oops, all of a sudden you can no longer do that. No incoming, no outgoing texts. Where did they go? Will they come thru eventually?

How do you explain that to irate customers?

This was most likely a decision that Apple and VZ concurred on: no phone calls and texts at the same time. Keep it simple.

 

[nsayer]

Look at it this way: VZ iphone on LTE, if Apple had put in an extra antenna, then yes you could text and call at the same time.

Then you fall off LTE: oops, all of a sudden you can no longer do that. No incoming, no outgoing texts. Where did they go? Will they come thru eventually?

How do you explain that to irate customers?

This was most likely a decision that Apple and VZ concurred on: no phone calls and texts at the same time. Keep it simple.

Naw. This is no different than it was in AT&T days. There are still parts of AT&T's network that max out at EDGE. And EDGE doesn't do simultaneous data and voice either.

 

[nsayer]

LTE is fully capable of supporting simultaneous voice and data right this second using VoIP for voice.

Carriers REFUSE to enable that feature available on every iPhone ever, because it would impact the revenue stream from charging a separate and large fee for metered voice services.

What you're describing is the upcoming VoLTE system. Carriers are not "refusing" VoLTE any more than they're "refusing" to allow Skype to make phone calls over their data network. The fact is that VoLTE requires them to prepare and install new infrastructure, and that takes time.

The present fallback system is that their LTE network is presently data only and their legacy network (EvDO for Verizon and GSM/EDGE/HSPA for AT&T) will get used for phone calls.

 

[MCAsan]

Also all the carriers have a world of network testing to do before they launch VoIP/VoLTE. One of the fun things is making 911 test calls to the 5000+ Public Safety Answer Points (PSAPs) better know as the 911 centers. That alone is a royal PITA for all parties (carriers, infrastructure vendors, phone vendors, PSAPs, and maybe the PSAP infrastructure vendors. The vast majority of PSAPs are not ready for VOIP so the IP calls have to converted back in to traditional circuited switched calls. The migration from circuit switch (wireline or wireless) to all IP is a huge endeavor.

 

[Rocketman]

What you're describing is the upcoming VoLTE system. Carriers are not "refusing" VoLTE any more than they're "refusing" to allow Skype to make phone calls over their data network. The fact is that VoLTE requires them to prepare and install new infrastructure, and that takes time.

The present fallback system is that their LTE network is presently data only and their legacy network (EvDO for Verizon and GSM/EDGE/HSPA for AT&T) will get used for phone calls.

No I am not and you are about the third person to misconstrue my post. VoLTE is an LTE protocol. VoIP and data are INTERNET protocols that work over any wired or wireless INTERNET signal. This is solved by a simple software update that the carriers insisted NOT be done since iPhone 1.

The day the iPhone was announced and it was clear calling was an APP on a handtop computer, and not necessarily a separate transceiver and protocol, it became practical to have VoIP be your PRIMARY voice protocol.

It is carriers wanting to charge a tier of fees for voice and another tier of fees for text on top of the tier of fees for data, that prevents this from happening. Carriers still have sufficient market power to keep Apple from making VoIP the default voice APP on the iPhone.

However when it is allowed, Apple has the server capacity for the "switch service".

Think "Magic Jack" for iPhone.

The AT&T Wireless CEO reported on CNBC today they their margins have raised from 30-40% over the past 3 years and the churn has dropped from 2% to 1%. AT&T is totally monetizing this wireless handset thing.

Now to be fair the capital investment required to deploy 3.5G GSM then 4G-LTE nationwide for AT&T is measured in the tens of billions of dollars per year for several years. Not chump change. So whatever you are paying for, whether it is broken down by category or is a single fee is probably worth it for what you (we) get.

Rocketman

 

[chagla]

I spent quite a bit of time yesterday playing with both a GS3 and the Nokia Lumia. I liked the Lumia a lot. One can tell that Microsoft put a lot of work and thought into designing their OS. The GUI performance was very nice, smooth, polished. The hardware was nice, certainly better than what Samsung has. Not up to the iPhone level, but closer.

Samsung's GS3 was an absolute joke. Not only being made out of cheap plastic that felt like it would snap in two, but the performance of Android simply had me shaking my head in disappointment. Is this what you fandroid-koolaid drinkers defend? The performance was choppy, scrolling stutters, animation was crude, it's just pathetic in every way. Its so large you have to use two hands to use the device! Using the GS3 was painful. Google should be ashamed of themselves for making such a sloppy system. It's the ghetto of OS's

Shame on the fandroids for defending such a crappy system.

Voice and data at the same time, give me a break, that is such a useless feature.

you do remember that everything prior to iphone 4 was made of plastic? why is using plastic a bad thing? glass shatters instantly.

regarding your OPINION about android, it's certainly okay if you don't like it. but spreading nonsense without knowing is not acceptable. Android is a real multitasking OS with proper user accessible file system. it's plug and play meaning it doesn't need any special software to manage. plug in to any computer (mac, windows, linux). nearly every aspect of it can be changed IF the user wants. keyboard, screen, theme, browser, file managers. don't like animation? turn it off! don't like default launcher? get whatever suits you from the app market. and no, rooting is not required for any of these. anyone can do these sort of things simply installing a replacement app from market.

you see some people like OPTIONS. did it ever occur to you that some may not like apples we-know-whats-best-for-you approach? there's nothing wrong if someone likes ios or android. its their choice but the way you are insulting non-ios users clearly matches with the general perception of ios users.

btw, gs3 is 0.3 inch larger than your Lumia. you make it sound like you're holding a tablet. funny you don't mention that Lumia is about 60grams heavier than S3. for a phone, 60grams is considerable weight. i hear losing a just a few grams is HUGE in apple land.

i don't like ios restrictions. so does it make ghetto of os's? or what if i say its smartphone os for dumb people? how would you like that?

and your last bit is also amusing. now you say simultaneous voice/data is useless, but when years later you will get it, you will say it's the greatest thing. i remember when iphone screen was small, people said who needs bigger screen? when LTE was introduced years ago, apple fans said who uses LTE? i can predict same will happen when NFC is used on future iphones.

 

[HD Boy]

Why is this? On my Verizon Galaxy Nexus, when I have a 4G LTE connection, I can access the internet and be in a call with the CDMA radio at the same time. How does the iPhone 5 not work like that as well?

The Android phones that do simultaneous voice/data on Verizon use the first-generation LTE chips that are very power hungry, require huge smartphone batteries and drain power at an alarming rate. These less-efficient designs also employ separate LTE and CDMA radio chips -- and a third, internal antenna too.

It seems likely this is the real reason why all those over-sized Android phones are so large. They look like goofy, over-sized props from a "Land of the Giants" movie remake because they have to be big to fit in all that first-generation LTE technology.

Verizon previoudly has said it will add simultaneous voice/data by upgrading towers with a new VoLTE (voice over LTE) technology in "early 2013", which already is being tested in two unnamed U.S. cities.

Apple elected to skip the old LTE hardware and designs to implement simultaneous voice/ data using the next-generation LTE chips and designs that will be used for all devices in the future.

So, the most important questions are these:
1. Will the existing iPhone 5 hardware be upgradable (and capable of supporting VoLTE when it's rolled out in a few months)?

2. Or, will Verizon VoLTE support on Verizon from Apple be delayed until the nest iPhone hardare (5S?) arrives in late 2013?

 

[b_scott]

That really sucks. It would definitely be a deal-breaker for me if I were considering them as a carrier. People can bash AT&T all they want but I have never had bad customer service, billing problems, or issues with my voice or data failing me. I guess I'm one of the lucky few.

you definitely don't live in Chicago. AT&T is awful here. With my iPhone 5 on VZW, I've had LTE everywhere and never had to worry about talk + data this weekend. I rarely talk anyway.

 

[sha52]

Apple is without an excuse

Apple: You have no excuse this time for creating crippled CDMA iPhone 5. Apple, you should have made the screen wider to leave room for a third antenna that enables simultaneous talk and surf. Suppose mapping system needs to re-route at a critical road and user receives an important call.

Should the user have to struggle to decide about answering the call and thus cutting off the data from the map and thus get lost or reject an important call and let the mapping app do its job by staying connected to data? And there are many other examples of the lack of simultaneous talk and surf. So many new buyers will be disappointed to find out that their iPhone 5's will not have simultaneous talk and surf.

Apple, didn't you and AT&T use to make commercials mocking Verizon for not having simultaneous talk and surf? So now, HTC and Samsung must pay you back with the same mockery to point out your products major and fatal weakness! You never adapted the iPhone well for the CDMA ecosystem. Ahh! I am sick and tired of waiting for Apple to catch up to make the iPhone with this killer feature. I will just stay with Android!

 

[b_scott]

Apple: ..........

"blah blah blah blah I don't have an iPhone anyway, Android RULES! I'm outta here"


This is what you just said.

 

[jhencken]

<sigh>

Good luck with that! I totally agree with you, and didn't know that Verizon lacked a function other iPhone carriers had, until I'd already bought 2 iPhone5s and reupped for 2 more years with verizon.

If I'm going to pay two gajillion dollars for a phone, it darn well better do two things at once.

 

[Joesmith13245]

I find that I do not use this feature that frequently. However, when I do it always seems to be at a time when convenience is important. With excellent AT&T coverage in my home area (DFW), pricing vs Verizon just about the same, the lack of simultaneous voice/data is a deal breaker for me. I guess I would be willing to compromise on this feature if price and/or coverage was lacking. But that is not the case.