Verizon iPhone More Likely When 4G Networks Arrive in 2010

[profets]

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

i do remember reading that LTE was somewhat designed to be backward compatible to cdma2000/evdo networks to encourage current cdma carriers to choose LTE for 4G.

also, bell & telus in canada which are major cdma carriers have announced as well that they will be going LTE for 4g.. as well as putting up umts/hspa network for next year (not sure why they wouldnt just go straight to LTE)

 

[diamond.g]

Partially true, any carrier can use LTE. But LTE is built on the GSM/WCDMA standard. UMB was the CDMA alternative but it never took off. Thus CDMA is a dead technology. Qualcomm itself is no longer in the CDMA market. So while VZW wont be switching to GSM anytime soon, investments in that infrastructure will be slim from here on out.

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

And yes, LTE is intended for mobile devices. Your statement about it being more for stationary devices is just silly.

It is odd for CDMA to be dead if WCDMA isn't. I think you meant CDMA2000 not "CDMA".

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

Sigh, UTMS=WCDMA which in the end is a form of CDMA. CDMA2000 is dead though...

 

[Ted13]

Isn't Apple working with a Chinese mobile company to launch a TD-SCDMA version of the iPhone there? If so, what would be so hard about creating a CDMA phone for VZW and/or Sprint?

...
If the next iPhone has voice dialing (and ideally if they ever fix the Apple Mail To-Do sync that's been sitting there broken since 1.1 or 1.2) and is available on Sprint, I know both my wife and I would snatch one right away. We both carry a cell phone and an iPod Touch around... it'd be nice to consolidate that into one device.

See, you are the perfect example of why Apple *doesn't* do a CDMA phone. You insist on Sprint -- well that's never going to happen, because Sprint is a dead end, as the only US company not committed to 4G LTE tech. So even if they came out with a CDMA iPhone you still wouldn't switch to one because it wouldn't be on Sprint (or not have one of those must have features).

Secondly it surely isn't technically difficult to produce a CDMA phone, but it may be close to impossible to produce an iPhone that is both CDMA and GSM/3G phone (which it would need to be), plus WiFi etc. and not be any thicker and still have decent battery life. RIM didn't manage it: there is no WiFi on the Storm and it is thicker than the iPhone anyway.

 

[yoyomaster]

Are you serious? Compare a current BlackBerry unlimited data plan, and comparable voice plan with Verizon, and AT&T. Verizon's start at $100/month for 450 minutes, where as T-Mo and AT&T Start at $70/Month for the same minutes/data. For $110/month, I can double the minutes on voice with AT&T/T-Mo.

Shouldn't spout how much cheaper another service is, until you've actually done some checking.

Looks like you need to check the facts. Verizon's 450 unlimited premium package is only $79.99, At&t is $39.99+30(personal data)+$20(for unlimited text messaging for a phone which that plan does not include any)=$89.99 for the same plan minus the unlimited N/W which At&t gives you 5000 instead. I don't know where or how you compared Verizon's plan starting at $99.99 for 450, the $99.99 is 900 minutes plus 5 friends, and At&t is $59.99+30(personal data)+20(unlimited texts)=$109.99, so really At&t is more expensive. You shouldn't be spouting either...

 

[iPhoneNYC]

Before my iPhone I used to look forward to getting some fantastic new phone ever two years. Being a NYer I generally signed with Verizon, although I also had ATT contracts early on. I think it would be fun and probably sell more if there were different version of the iPhone out there: say one for ATT and one for Verizon. Different looks, different options - more sales, better for the consumer. And yes, I am absolutely ready for a new iPhone to replace my contract that expires in June.

 

[Thunder82]

Sigh, UTMS=WCDMA which in the end is a form of CDMA.

Don't quite understand what this has to do with what I posted at all. WCDMA uses a similar air interface to CDMA, but thats about where the similarities end.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

It would be interesting to see another iPhone competitor. LTE is 100% digital data, i.e., "voice data" becomes a relic, so I'm not sure it's really going to matter at that point. The two carriers will have roaming agreements so the service for both carriers will be similar. As far as evilness ATT and Verizon share the same horns too.

 

[diamond.g]

Don't quite understand what this has to do with what I posted at all. WCDMA uses a similar air interface to CDMA, but thats about where the similarities end.

It was more of the whole CDMA is dead thing, which isn't true. CDMA2000 is though. I think it sucks that CDMA is being crapped on when the idea of Code Division Multiple Access is what is driving UTMS (well the Wideband version). Qualcomm did a good job making everyone believe that CDMA2000 is CDMA. Which is a shame...

 

[davidbrummy]

Competition is good for all of us. Screw this exclusive deal. I want options.

+1

Hopefully it will stop the whole "when are we getting a CDMA phone" conversations that happen every 5 mins.

It has been highly reported that Apple went to Verizon and got turned down and then went to AT&T. I often wonder if that is sour grapes fro Verizon as Apple was considering a number of options (MVNO) at the time and may have just gone with AT&T in the first place.

 

[ccrandall77]

See, you are the perfect example of why Apple *doesn't* do a CDMA phone. You insist on Sprint -- well that's never going to happen, because Sprint is a dead end, as the only US company not committed to 4G LTE tech. So even if they came out with a CDMA iPhone you still wouldn't switch to one because it wouldn't be on Sprint (or not have one of those must have features).

Secondly it surely isn't technically difficult to produce a CDMA phone, but it may be close to impossible to produce an iPhone that is both CDMA and GSM/3G phone (which it would need to be), plus WiFi etc. and not be any thicker and still have decent battery life. RIM didn't manage it: there is no WiFi on the Storm and it is thicker than the iPhone anyway.

Nonsense. First, I didn't insist on anything. I'm on Sprint... maybe if it came to VZW I'd switch. All I said was IF it came out for Sprint, I'd probably get one today.

Is Sprint a dead-end company, time will tell... at least they are already rolling out 4G while others are only talking about it. If they can fix customer support and if the Pre does well, who knows. Again, there's no real technical reason if Apple really wanted to make a phone compatible with a certain carrier that they could not do so.

Why would a CDMA iPhone have to support GSM as well? This makes no sense. They can do what plenty of other companies have done, like RIM... make a GSM version and a CDMA version. Whether or not Apple finds it in their best interest to do this is a different matter, but technically I don't see a reason why they couldn't do a version for VZW and/or Sprint.

 

[xxmjumpman23xx]

Hmmm my Verizon contract expires in December of this year. I was thinking of ATT but I just may have to wait and see if Apple comes to Verizon. Hopefully we get more info later in the year.

 

[Thunder82]

Hmmm my Verizon contract expires in December of this year. I was thinking of ATT but I just may have to wait and see if Apple comes to Verizon. Hopefully we get more info later in the year.

Time will certainly tell. An iPhone on Verizon certainly isn't impossible, just not very probable in my opinion.

 

[gkarris]

LOL....

Yeah, like AT&T is gonna let another carrier in the US have an iPhone...

Plus, isn't Verizon a TOTAL JOKE?

Last I heard, Verizon nickle and dimes you for everything. Like if you want to sync your computer contacts with your Smartphone, Verizon charges $9.99/month for it. You have to buy all the music and videos through them only and you need a dataplan to do so. You can't play your own ripped CD's/DVD's.

With the iPhone, Apple allows you to play your own content, and sync your info without a monthly fee. Verizon hates this sort of thing.

Verizon, users, please don't get angry and insult/flame me. Please feel free to correct me. I'm working off of info from years back (too lazy to search for the latest info). Thanks...

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

HSPA : UTMS/WCDMA :: EDGE : GSM. On the other hand, LTE : UTMS/WCDMA :: UTMS/WCDMA : GSM. Or, in other words, the GSM to UTMS transition was one that required a different radio in the phone and different software. Likewise, the UTMS to LTE transition will be the same. HSPA is a modification of UTMS for higher speeds, just like how EDGE was a modification of GSM for higher speeds.

 

[DisturbedLen]

Verizon? Yawn...
We need a provider that doesn't rip us off on overpriced voice plans. How about a data only plan that allows voip? We're not gonna see that happen until a new carrier startup comes around.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

Nonsense. First, I didn't insist on anything. I'm on Sprint... maybe if it came to VZW I'd switch. All I said was IF it came out for Sprint, I'd probably get one today.

Is Sprint a dead-end company, time will tell... at least they are already rolling out 4G while others are only talking about it. If they can fix customer support and if the Pre does well, who knows. Again, there's no real technical reason if Apple really wanted to make a phone compatible with a certain carrier that they could not do so.

Why would a CDMA iPhone have to support GSM as well? This makes no sense. They can do what plenty of other companies have done, like RIM... make a GSM version and a CDMA version. Whether or not Apple finds it in their best interest to do this is a different matter, but technically I don't see a reason why they couldn't do a version for VZW and/or Sprint.

Remember, we're discussing a thread where VZW is stating that any iPhone for VZW would happen after the LTE rollout. EV-DO carriers and UTMS carriers alike are switching to LTE. Except for Sprint. The iPhone will never be available for Sprint.

 

[kingtj]

I just attended an AT&T "lunch and learn" session....

I was at an AT&T sponsored event at the local Mariott hotel just yesterday. The topic was the future of mobility with AT&T wireless products.

Honestly, they didn't have a *whole* lot to say that most of us don't already know, but they implied that the LTE data network upgrade is a big part of their overall picture for future offerings. (EG. AT&T takes the position than the concept of a phone primarily being a device you carry around to talk on is becoming "outdated", and people need to start viewing cellphones as "portable data platforms" instead. They acknowledge that the relatively slow data speeds have hindered this "vision" - but once a 4G network is running, new opportunities open up.) They also claimed that the new network was projected to begin by 4th. quarter of 2009 (though that may just mean it's ready for internal testing purposes, and not ready for public use yet?).

Among other things, they mentioned the iPhone as a big part of their vision for future offerings, and suggested such things as streaming video to the iPhone being a complimentary component to "big events" viewed on television. (EG. You'd watch a major sporting event in high-def on TV with your AT&T U-Verse subscription, and that would include the ability to use your iPhone as a secondary display, showing an alternate camera view or "replay views" of things in tandem with the show.)

Verizon won't have anything close to a nationwide rollout of LTE in 2010 though (even though they're starting this year), and the phones still have to fall back on CDMA, whereas the AT&T LTE phones fall back on GSM. I can see an LTE phone working on BOTH once there is sufficient coverage. I can't really see a Verizon LTE iPhone in 2010 unless they really move their ass in rolling it out. 2011 or 2012 certainly. 2010 seems too soon. If they offer all customers femtocell base stations at least they can get coverage in their houses, lol.

Don't forget AT&T is supposedly starting their LTE rollout in 2010 also.

 

[kdarling]

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

LTE is a clean break from both GSM and CDMA. Its underlying IP network is totally different from, and incompatible with, either of those old ones. Same for the air interface.

This is why any LTE based phone will require older radios and networks to fall back on, outside of LTE coverage, for quite some time to come.

Partially true, any carrier can use LTE. But LTE is built on the GSM/WCDMA standard.

No, it's not.

UMB was the CDMA alternative but it never took off. Thus CDMA is a dead technology.

And GSM is also dead technology, if everyone moves to LTE. But that won't happen for another decade or so. Both GSM and CDMA will continue for a long time.

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

Totally ridiculous. UMTS is based on old GSM backends, with WCDMA as the air interface. LTE is based on an all-IP backend, with OFDMA as the most common air interface.

And yes, LTE is intended for mobile devices. Your statement about it being more for stationary devices is just silly.

Verizon's public LTE roadmap states exactly what I said... their LTE will be first used for non-phone functions.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Verizon just bought out T-Mobile. So it is all Verizon now. No more T-Mobile.

You mean Alltel. T-Mobile is a GSM network which is totally incompatible with Verizon's own CDMA network, so it would make absolutely no sense for Verizon to buy out something that they couldn't make use of. The Alltel network, on the other hand, is 1xEV-DO (3G CDMA), same as Verizon's.

But yeah, T-Mobile blows. Their coverage is always horrible and I hate their stupid pink-and-white theme.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Plus, isn't Verizon a TOTAL JOKE?

Last I heard, Verizon nickle and dimes you for everything. Like if you want to sync your computer contacts with your Smartphone, Verizon charges $9.99/month for it. You have to buy all the music and videos through them only and you need a dataplan to do so. You can't play your own ripped CD's/DVD's.

With the iPhone, Apple allows you to play your own content, and sync your info without a monthly fee. Verizon hates this sort of thing.

Like I said earlier, Steve will set his RDF phasers to "Maximum" and the Verizon suits won't know what hit them. The conversation will begin, "Sorry Steve, no iTunes, it's going to be VCast on the...." BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT! And when they wake up, they'll simply sign on the dotted line.

But in all seriousness...Apple would never. If Verizon tried to pull that crippling crap, the deal wouldn't happen and Apple would walk.

 

[cleric]

Before my iPhone I used to look forward to getting some fantastic new phone ever two years. Being a NYer I generally signed with Verizon, although I also had ATT contracts early on. I think it would be fun and probably sell more if there were different version of the iPhone out there: say one for ATT and one for Verizon. Different looks, different options - more sales, better for the consumer. And yes, I am absolutely ready for a new iPhone to replace my contract that expires in June.

I assure you this will never happen

 

[dave4122]

Yeah! Screw AT&T! I get no service where I live, and they overcharge a lot. Here's hoping Verison keeps it under $80/month

I pay about $97 for my bill(unlimted everthing except for my minuets yet i have 900) with verizon(Voyager) which i totatly hate this phone. So im willing to pay the same if the iphone comes to verizon. Hopefully apple will let the vznavigator work on the iphone. The vznav has to be the best mobile phone GPS out there or at least that i have seen.

 

[Ted13]

Why would a CDMA iPhone have to support GSM as well? This makes no sense. They can do what plenty of other companies have done, like RIM... make a GSM version and a CDMA version. Whether or not Apple finds it in their best interest to do this is a different matter, but technically I don't see a reason why they couldn't do a version for VZW and/or Sprint.

Because a CDMA only iPhone would be a brick the moment someone got off the plane in Europe and most of the rest of the world. Apple would never stand for that -- the iPhone really shines when you are traveling and need your email, last minute travel/hotel/tourist/business info, etc. And iPhone users as a demographic travel more.

You should have seen the faces on a bunch of Verizon users when we were all off the plane and waiting for a shuttle on a recent trip, and everyone with an iPhone or other T-Mobile or AT&T phone were happily calling or texting that we had arrived. The Verizon people were very, very upset once it was explained to them that their phones were useless for their duration of their trip. I can only imagine how much more upset they'd be if their super-duper iPhone didn't work.

 

[Nermal]

That's interesting. If I go to Europe or another country without CDMA2000 then my carrier will give me a GSM phone to use while I'm away (just a cheapie, a Nokia 6070). Alternatively I can supply my own GSM/WCDMA phone and just get a SIM card for it.

This will all change when my carrier launches its new WCDMA network in June

 

[Ted13]

I have never paid for a ringtone on vzw....you can mms them to your phone.

And that MMS service is free is suppose? Trust me, you are paying for the "privilege" of loading your ringtones, one way or another.