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We should keep two things in mind:

1) Cingular is about to be transformed into AT&T, which may choose to change its plans to something more competitive.

2) AT&T may have some kind of special data pricing for iPhone customers. Keep in mind, Yahoo! has already struck a deal to give iPhone customers a free Yahoo! Plus upgrade to get the IMAP service. There's a possibility that AT&T may have separate iPhone prices, much like the special Blackberry plans.

Again, we won't know anything until June. So hang on tight, guys.


you've got it backwards i think.
at&t wireless is becoming cingular.
when i lived in FL i had at&t wireless and it became cingular. then i had to get a new phone to keep their service shortly before moving up here to nc and discovering that cingular blows big time up here.
maybe that's not everywhere in the US but it is in these two states anyway......
 
uh huh

(only in the USA and some smaller Asian countries)


Yeah....China and South Korea are "smaller Asian countries."

GSM is the world standard, but CDMA is more widespread than people think. It also has some key advantages. An iPhone on Verizon's (or Sprint's, for that matter) network would have been phenomenal...perhaps it would've had 3G data instead of the slow GSM/EDGE.
 
you've got it backwards i think.
at&t wireless is becoming cingular.
when i lived in FL i had at&t wireless and it became cingular. then i had to get a new phone to keep their service shortly before moving up here to nc and discovering that cingular blows big time up here.
maybe that's not everywhere in the US but it is in these two states anyway......

Im in FL (Bradenton Sarasota market) and I have begun seeing comercials on TV mentioning that Cingular... along with BellSouth is the new AT&T.

I too had AT&T just before they merged with Cingular. They were terrible. I paid over $500 to cancel my accountssince their service was soo bad. I dont understand it. why go back to AT&T branding?
 
i dont think so... there are plenty wireless carrier, but only one apple... and apple electronic is right now the symbol of coolness aside from other factors, so i bet if a wireless carrier can sign exclusive deal, they get much benefit too.

given steve jobs (and the narrative of his meeting shown in one of the thread flowing around) i doubt they (or steve) 'd change THEIR(god, people, spell it right!) demand.

That is the best. Complain about someone's spelling then fill your own paragraph with grammar and punctuation errors.
 
I just took a quick look at other high end phones, the ones iphone will compete with, many were $300 to$400 with contract. So it is a bit more expensive, Apple hardware usually is, but from what I see it is easily worth a couple hundred more in terms of value, and the experience using it.

While it is priced and designed to compete with the top line phones, I bet this will also pull people up the ladder from the "buy one, get one free" crappy phones we see thrown around like party favors. It's that cool.

I doubt people used to getting free phones are going to dump $500 into iPhone because of all the hype.
 
Verizon= greedy SOB's. They probably didn't want a phone interfering with their "crippled bluetooth" business plan.
 
It's not as absurd as you think.

It's common practice in quite a few professions. It's the concept of referrals; if I refer you a client, I will get a portion in your sale. You should be grateful, because if I didn't refer you the client, then the sale never would've happened. The concept applies here.



That's what they said and some still say about the Macintosh and the iPod. I can't wait until next MacWorld when Apple and Cingular prove you wrong.


Whoa there. Apple makes some great products, we all know or we would not be here. But not everything they come up with is "Magic" or "Gold". This will not do as well as the iPod. End of story. Different time, higher price, etc, etc. Will it do well? Likely. Will it change "Cellular" service as we know it? No way.
 
As A Verizon Customer, It Bums Me Out Verizon Was Inflexible Enough To Pass On iPhone

If Verizon was the iPhone carrier, it would make my adoption of it much easier since they are my carrier to date. I live where Verizon works much better than Cingular and thus would be trading better signal coverage for worse if I were to adopt an iPhone. So I'm torn about this. :confused: :eek: :(
 
Apple is predicting 10 million phones by the end of 2008, that's 18 months, not a year. I'm sure they will meet and exceed that, and I bet they have three models out by them..

Cingular is the only carrier that reaches into my house which is kind of in a low spot here on Long Island. The lower GSM frequency they use in the US penetrates better, even into my finished basement. And my contract is up for renewal in May, which means they offer a phone upgrade, so I'm sitting pretty, ready to get an iPhone.

My area already offers Cingular's 3G and my contract gives me access to it, so I was upset that iPhone won't have it, but I'll wager before a year is out they will, so I'll pick up the new model and try to sell the old. So that's two sales for Apple already lined up, and I bet I'll even get a decent resale price for a cell phone.
 
Ehhhh, iPhone, may be revolutionary (but I just say it has a better interface which is more of an evolution than revolution) and the price of it at $600 is a little overboard for average consumer for a cell phone WITH a contract. Hell I can get a Sidekick here for free with a 2 year contract. Best selling cell phones are in the $100-$150 range. Of course people on this board which most are Apple fans will probably buy it but there is not a lot of you out there.

IPhone in the best case scenario will be a niche product (unless they will drop it's prices), not a lot of people in their right mind will buy a $600 cell phone no matter how cool it may be, the main function of a phone is to call other people, all those other gadgets are secondary. Another thing, according to various statistics Verizon offers the best phone reception which is an important issue because no matter how cool of a phone you can have, if there is no reception the cell phones main function is useless.
 
Verizon= greedy SOB's. They probably didn't want a phone interfering with their "crippled bluetooth" business plan.
Please explain what you mean. :confused:

Probably something to do with the fact that Verizon cripples the bluetooth on their handsets to "encourage" consumers to pay for over the air downloads. In fact, they recently lost a significant class action lawsuit based on what they did to the V710, so I'd say MacFan is on to something on this one.
 
I prefer to be more subtle... but Chundles has a whole load of facts wrong.

Australia has CDMA nationwide via Telstra (with EV-DO in the major cities) and the coverage is considered excellent (better than any other network's GSM coverage), though Telstra will shut the network down in 18 months. They are replacing it with a new 3G network on the same frequencies that they've called "NextG" (equal coverage to CDMA, give-or-take a few swings and roundabouts). NextG is regular 3G, but on the lower (non-standard) frequencies, and it has HSDPA (high speed data). Vodafone and Optus are trialing HSDPA on the regular 3G frequencies.


3G has been here since 2003 when Three (Hutchison) released it to a couple of cities (Sydney & Melbourne only to start?), in a joint venture with TelecomNZ and roaming onto Telstra 2G when out of range. It was October 2005 before Vodafone and later Optus released 3G (sharing much network infrastructure), mainly in the capital cities. Vodafone really has a very similar setup in Australia and NZ (just a much lower market share in Australia).

Telstra did a deal with Three and expanded their joint network some. Telstra were a little behind on the whole 3G thing, until they did an amazingly fast rollout of 3G nationwide on their existing CDMA frequencies (850Mhz) after they convinced the government that CDMA was too expensive. They're now using the same frequency Cingular are using for 3G, which may bode well for Australia being one of the only countries that could use the 2nd generation iPhone??? (though personally I hope Apple supports regular 3G frequencies!!)

Is there any reason that you guys discuss this other than that you live in Australia? Like when you post these things are you of the opinion that most readers are interested in telecommunications markets in Australia or that these markets significantly impact Apple and AT&T's business development and relationship?

These questions could apply to any of you that live in far away places and for, what generally appears to be little more than simple narcissism and want for attention, like to remind everyone about your place. That Japan has such and such, in England we don't know about this and that, but we have this, the rest of the world has whatever, South America, where is it again, Antarctica, to the extent that it remains (shrinking) exists as well, and Canada likes Apple as well, I'm sure there are people with phones in Micronesia, but what about Madagascar, oh them also I suppose, and Ireland has plenty, heck even Sadr City probably expects to have 3G at some point.

For so long, I was optimistic about our chances of adding anything insightful. But day-by-day we fill these pages with what seems an endless, a cacophony, a plethora, a deluge, a lot of words and little else. We ramble on endlessly, never caring when, and if, we repeat each other. In fact, getting more posts rewards us as the all-important metric will go up as a result regardless of repition or whether what we say has anything to do with the issue at hand.

All this is like trying to gain an understanding of the ecological state of the world by tuning in for the sound bites of an army of amnesiac and narcissist single-species watchers. Someone over there saying mosquitoes are dying in mass. Someone else saying the Water Bufallo has lost their footing, in large part thanks to the advances in recent generations of some sort of cat or some other nasty predator. The rabbits are breading like hotcakes this year. But what about the mosquitoes again, I forgot.

And what hubris we have, always thinking that the people for whom these predictions and analyses matter most are the ones who get it the most wrong. That some how we got it right cause we thought about this or that. Because we know about what signals are being sent in and around Northern Beaches.

And where are all of us who are willing to say maybe and let’s wait and see. In a few months, we’ll know more, for example, about whether we have a revolution or a flop.
 
Remember Verizon changes the UI of their phones

I don't know how Apple and Verizon would have done business together anyway. Verizon likes to have control over the UI and tend to cripple the functions of the phones they offer. The first thing they do is remove the ability to transfer files of Bluetooth. Although the iPhone full details hasn't come out yet, I am betting on it performing OBEX. Also I cannot see Steve allowing a company that has such horrendous UI, to put input into the look and function of the iPhone.
 
This included limited distribution to Apple Stores and Verizon stores only, leaving Wal-Mart, Best Buy and other Verizon distributors out of the loop. Apple also reportedly insisted on "sole discretion over whether to replace or repair the phone" with regard to customer service.

That part seems awkward... Does that mean the whole new phone every two years from most cell phone companies not apply to the iPhone? That would suck. No replaceable battery and a weak battery life spells disaster for the iPhone in a couple of years of use.

Nevertheless, Verizon rejecting the iPhone should be no surprise. With Verizon's crummy "features" added into all phones and really crippling the phone, it's no wonder Apple didn't get far in talks with Verizon. Although, with this story uncovered, maybe Apple and Verizon will make a compromise so that I won't have to change providers next year to get an iPhone (although AT&T is looking better by the day).
 
Here in the U.S., adoption of GSM came after other digital cellular technologies like TDMA (replaced by GSM) and CDMA.

GSM coverage is still lacking outside metro area in lower population states like mine.

Here, if you go as little as 3 miles outside the city limits, or 1 mile off the major highways, chances are you won't have GSM coverage, but you will have CDMA or analog coverage.

I expect this to improve, slowly, but note that companies "cherry-pick" where they put new GSM towers (i.e., GSM coverage is very good in rural resort areas, with $1 million+ new homes)

Living in the UK, I can't understand the difference between Cingular / Verizon / Sprint / etc. What I do know is, on the day the iPhone was announced, on MacRumors all I saw were you guys in the US saying what a tragedy it was that it was exclusive to Cingular...
 
I don't know how Apple and Verizon would have done business together anyway. Verizon likes to have control over the UI and tend to cripple the functions of the phones they offer. The first thing they do is remove the ability to transfer files of Bluetooth. Although the iPhone full details hasn't come out yet, I am betting on it performing OBEX. Also I cannot see Steve allowing a company that has such horrendous UI, to put input into the look and function of the iPhone.

I was proved wrong on this one a while back. take a look at the Verizon Blackberry. Blackberry interface.
 
Can ewe hear me now?

Verizon saw that this was not a good deal. And it's not.
(I recall that Cingular-ATT has rollover minutes. VZW would never do that. They should. But they won't. Look at all the money they lose).
I can't wait to read about the iPhone theft rate and "unlocked" models sold on eBay...or DIY battery replacement kits that VOID warranty from both Apple and ATT.
You Jones' can have the first wave of iPhones. I'll wait. I'm happy with my plain old cell. That works. Sheeple.
 
Here in the U.S., adoption of GSM came after other digital cellular technologies like TDMA (replaced by GSM) and CDMA.

GSM coverage is still lacking outside metro area in lower population states like mine.

Here, if you go as little as 3 miles outside the city limits, or 1 mile off the major highways, chances are you won't have GSM coverage, but you will have CDMA or analog coverage.

I expect this to improve, slowly, but note that companies "cherry-pick" where they put new GSM towers (i.e., GSM coverage is very good in rural resort areas, with $1 million+ new homes)

well it is understandable why the US GSM coverage is weaker than the CMDA. CMDA/Analog both have a wider cover range per tower so it take fewer towers to cover everywhere.

On top of that the US has a lot much lower population density than other countries that has good cell phone coverage and a hell of a lot more land area to cover. That takes time and money and you have fewer people using each tower. I would not be surprised in the least to see Canad in the same boat just because there is just a huge area to cover with relatively few people in range of each tower. And the towers I believe I saw a figure that put them at about $800,000 each to put up. That not counting operational cost that goes with each tower as well.
 
I hear a bunch of people complaining about how Apple wants to control so much, including which stores sell their product. I think the reason is obvious there. If you have ever been to a Target or Wal-Mart, you know how they display their items, a box away from looking like COSTCO (or someother warehouse store). They put the iPODs right between the CDs and Cassette Tapes...The phones are on these giant display counters that have been tampered with by every teenager that has ever walked in the store. You can't help but want to stay out of those places.

Stay out of the discount stores... keep the quality up.
 
People said the very same thing when the iPod was introduced.

I would argue for what the iPhone does, in relation to competitors like Blackberry, the price is very attractive. Businesses will snap up iPhones for their employees like crazy.

The iPhone does not offer the same service that a Blackberry with Enterprise Server and Exchange integration does. And that's the type of service businesses need. Most businesses are also practical, they don't spend extra hundreds of dollars just so their employees can play music. An iPhone doesn't offer any increased productivity over a Blackberry.
 
Shake Up the Dynamics

Well, somebody needs to shake up the dynamics of the wireless industry in the US. The wireless carriers seem to control every aspect of your phone once you're locked into a contract. Is it true that Verizon blocks you from installing 3rd party applications on your phone and also blocks you from an open internet connection? Screw them. It's *your* phone! I have a camera phone but Sprint charges extra to upload the photos from my phone. Some companies severely limit the Bluetooth capabilities of your phone and even disable some features that the phone manufacturers build in. Screw them.

What if Internet service providers forced you to buy computers only through them, blocked you from installing an application that you didn't purchase from them, and limited the features of your computer because they can't find a way to charge you extra for the service that those features would give you?
 
iPhone

The article mentions what Apple's demands were for Verizon and that Verizon rejected them. We don't know if AT&T kept those demands or did they come to some compromise.

The percentage Apple are asking of AT&T depends on if this is still the case. Also, considering Apple wants to take responsibility in the customer service side, this is work AT&T don't have to do any more, so maybe that's why they want something for it.

Considering quite a few people said they wouldn't get the iPhone because of the price, quite a few others say they will! I think it depends on AT&T's service plan as if it is less because you are buying the 'phone, I'm sure people would buy it.

Apple are a premium company - not in the same league like Bang & Olufsen, but still more than other companies. They charge more because of the desirability of their products. However, this can pay off. iPods were considered ridiculously expensive just for a digital music player, but people still bought it in droves.

Product placement for the iPhone will be sky-high and it will become a sought-after 'phone no matter what the price. The public are influenced by what celebrities have and it's pretty much guaranteed they will all have an iPhone.

Apple are enjoying publicity for the iPhone just like the iPod. You couldn't open a magazine without some mention of the iPod and this was before the commercials were out. 6 months before the iPhone is even out, everyone already knows about it.

As for these conditions set on Cingular/AT&T, I think a little sacrifice will go a long way. Their brand recognition has shot up massively. Not just in the US, but internationally. Most people I have spoken to have never heard of Cingular, but as soon as the iPhone was accounced with a Cingular contract, everyone has now heard of them. Just from one Keynote speech. You can't buy publicity like that.
 
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