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Don't get me wrong, I HATE verizon, but I would have rather switched to verizon then cingular. they're both horrid, and at least w/ verizon we would have gotten 3G/EV-DO service. Knowing have restrictive verizon is with phone software, I'm really not surprised.
 
We'll see how smart cingular is within 5 years when apple decides to start their own cell phone companies and have at their fingertips the phone numbers and contact data for all of cingular customers.

As though starting a cell phone network in a saturated landscape like the US is even within the realm of possibility. Unless Apple starts on a separate range of frequencies that is suddenly freed for civilian use in the US, it is 100% guaranteed that any Apple network which was built from scratch would have crappy coverage everywhere. Same reason why Cingular coverage sucks in some areas where Verizon coverage is stellar: it's not because Cingular doesn't want to sell plans in Northern California; the "good" frequencies are just not available for their use!
 
cingular is about to get a bunch of new customers thanks to the iphone..I already know my dad has said when it comes out we will be switching to cingular and getting two iphones (one for him and myself :D )

my mom is also planning on getting one and switching to cingular...oh and her husband will be doing that too

a bunch of my friends are contemplating the switch as well

the phone is to cool, its the best piece of technology out there right now. 5 years ahead of its time and some people are saying its a bad move? we won't know until a few months after the phone is released

but we should start a tally of how many people (just on this forum maybe a poll?) who are going to switch to get this device

Every single member on this forum could switch, and Cingular wouldn't notice they're there, and the other provider wouldn't notice they're gone.

And Cingular isn't going to get a bunch of new customers. Well, it depends on what you define a bunch as. Maybe to us, a million is a lot, but when Cingular has nearly 60 million customers, the million isn't a lot. It's not even a drop in the bucket....and I doubt Cingular will even get a million new customers.

I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again. The iPhone will not make or break any carrier. We've had a ton of phones come out in their past, that for their time, were just as revolutionary as the iPhone...Blackberries, Treos, Sidekicks, hell, even the crappy old RAZR was revolutionary a couple years ago (well, maybe not revolutionary, but definitely the "cool" phone to have...like the iPhone). The Sidekick was (still is) exclusive to T-Mobile and the RAZR was exclusive to cingular for awhile, and while I'm not sure about the Blackberry or Treo, they might have also been exclusive. And right now, there aren't any carriers struggling because they weren't the first to have a phone, and there aren't any carriers doing ridiculously well because they were the first to have a phone. And considering that the iPhone is twice as much as any of those phones I listed above, it's not going to change anything.

And the iPhone vs. iPod comparison is (no pun intended) Apples vs. Oranges. The iPod doesn't require you to sign a 2 year contract stating that you'll ONLY use iPods or pay a hefty termination fee. The iPod doesn't come along with a monthly data bill. The iPod had hardly any competition when it came out. Unlike cell phones, not everyone and their dog already had an MP3 player when the iPod came out.
 
I am glad that apple choose Cingular over verizon.
I for one will not be buying an iPhone, and will let cingular's crappy network get overflooded with people trying to use their iPhones while my verizon one stays relatively fast. Hell, with ATT, I have had the "network is too busy" error message when I used to use their network in the past for just phone service let alone data.

Part of what makes apple great is simplicity and if any idiot can do it than all the idiots will be browsing the web and using data. BT-DUNning and data x-fer over verizon is still relatively not for the grandma's and grandpa's of the world and weeds out some congestion. That's a good thing.
 
Every single member on this forum could switch, and Cingular wouldn't notice they're there, and the other provider wouldn't notice they're gone.

And Cingular isn't going to get a bunch of new customers. Well, it depends on what you define a bunch as. Maybe to us, a million is a lot, but when Cingular has nearly 60 million customers, the million isn't a lot. It's not even a drop in the bucket....and I doubt Cingular will even get a million new customers.


If you honestly think if a carrier lost one million customers they woulnd't notice/care you've got another thing coming. ONE million customers is 1/60 of their ENTIRE customer base (on Cingular's end, even more with any other carrier). That's an extremely significant number and would represent a very sizable loss of revenue.
 
not that this will get read...

I think apple knew that verizon (at the time) was going to have 3g sooner than all the others in the US... so they decided to ask verizon... again, this is 2.5 years ago before the merger of cingular and at&t (i think)... so they were also looking at the biggest US carrier at the time.

Apple is now screwing Verizon the best it can because they snubbed apple. So apple is basically saying, we are exclusive with Cingular for a few years, GSM is god's gift to the world, and did we mention multi-touch?
 
I think apple knew that verizon (at the time) was going to have 3g sooner than all the others in the US... so they decided to ask verizon... again, this is 2.5 years ago before the merger of cingular and at&t (i think)... so they were also looking at the biggest US carrier at the time.

Apple is now screwing Verizon the best it can because they snubbed apple. So apple is basically saying, we are exclusive with Cingular for a few years, GSM is god's gift to the world, and did we mention multi-touch?

Sprint is pioneering high-speed cellular data STOP And has a very large 3.5G network already STOP
 
well apple needed Cingular or Verizon to really have a chance with the iPhone. The other carrier are just 2 small. And they will do just find with out the iphone but if apple wanted to sell an real amount of the iPhones they needed those 2 companies. Based on this I do not think you will see the iPhone ever really spreading outside of cingular because apple demands are pretty damn high.

The % sells maybe. But the ones that I think are over board are the outlets it can be sold, and apple being the only one allowed to decide on repairs and replacement. That 2nd one is a sure fire way to making customers pissed off because they are going to take there broken phone to cellular store they got them from before they would contact apple. I mean it will just piss people off telling them they need to contact apple. And apple would be a lot slower o a turn around time the the stores which can be mins compared ot what from apple more than likely would be days. Something people never can stand.

I can understand the limiting of the subsidizing but apple made a lot of demands that are well over the top and I think it was the correct thing to do by Verizon turning them down.

Oh yeah and pretending I was cingular yeah I would of turned apple down limiting where it could be sold and for the repair and replacement one. both those a great way to piss off customers and risk losing them. Even more so since it appears that insurance will be even less of an option is apple holding all the cards.

But then again those demands are typical apple. if cingular turn them down apple would of had to really back down on there demands. Hell I would not be surprised if cingular force them to because apple needs the cell companies a hell of a lot more than they need apple.

I've always found apple's service on hardware to be really good. That's more than I can say for either of the two carrier's I've been with. I refuse to purchase a phone from a carrier anymore because of their service. I don't see apple not wanting the carrier to do service on their hardware to be a bad thing.
 
I do not know a SINGLE Cingular customer who likes or even loves them.

Well, love is a strong word, but I like Cingular very much. Their customer service is great. They're friendly, return calls, and don't seem to outsource. At least I haven't been unlucky enough to get some tech in India whom I can't understand. My experiences with Verizon have, by comparison, been a nightmare. I think they are by far the most incompetent telco out there. Cingular may not be the BMW of cell carriers, but they blow Verizon away.
 
Sprint is pioneering high-speed cellular data STOP And has a very large 3.5G network already STOP

I'm guessing you were granted demi-god status for more reasons than your quick to judge cell phone carrier abilities, STOP.

Yes, sprint has the largest 3g coverage in the US. But if you read my entire post, I also mention that little fact of subscriber base and actual cell coverage. to quote myself "... so they were also looking at the biggest US carrier at the time."

What is the killer app of the iPhone?... THE PHONE CALLS! Hence verizon, and cingular... the only 2 Apple could partner with at the moment. STOP.
 
hmm i can see hows the flood phone lines when people calls cingular (i mean at&t) customer service about the iphone and upgrade their phone. .. its like that time when i waited 12:01am just for upgrade my phone to a sidekick 3 that day. hmm

and i can see when everybody goes to apple with there iphone and going to the genius bar or going to cingular asking somewhat dumb questions while they have internet at there homes and lazy to search it out.

and flooding the calls on cingular's customer service lines. . lol not to be mean though.

:p
 
Well, love is a strong word, but I like Cingular very much. Their customer service is great. They're friendly, return calls, and don't seem to outsource. At least I haven't been unlucky enough to get some tech in India whom I can't understand....

The only Carrier that is worth a sh*t where I am is cingular. After the hurricanes a couple of years ago.. the only cell service we had here was cingular. They set up trucks with temporary towers all over Lousy-anna and Southeast Texas.. They also set up places so people could buy those pre-paid phones because NO OTHER carrier gave a crap to come down here and help people have some conneciton to the outside world. SO.. I'm happy with cingular.. even if they are crap.. the fact that I was able to call out of this area in a disaster.. well ..that made an impression.

Ang
 
As though starting a cell phone network in a saturated landscape like the US is even within the realm of possibility. Unless Apple starts on a separate range of frequencies that is suddenly freed for civilian use in the US, it is 100% guaranteed that any Apple network which was built from scratch would have crappy coverage everywhere. Same reason why Cingular coverage sucks in some areas where Verizon coverage is stellar: it's not because Cingular doesn't want to sell plans in Northern California; the "good" frequencies are just not available for their use!


Ever heard of the term MVNO?. Look it up in google.
BTW, it means mobile virtual network operator
 
Yep, those terms from Apple are so draconian. I'm really not surprised they told Apple where they could stick them!

The carriers should be able to subsidise how they like - also, its better for the consumer.

I'm no doubt the iPhone will sell, but I'm in no doubt that they'll be some very disappointed people when they find out how limiting the device is. No way is this device for corporate - it just doesn't have what it needs to fill that hole. This is a consumer device only.

Very, very expensive ( and limited functionality-wise ) phone.
I am no fan of Verizon but some of Apple's terms sounds kinda unreasonable to me.


Restrictions on stores it can be sold in? 2 year contract but no subsidies on pricing? Monthly percentage of user's subscription fees? On top of that the phone costs $600? Exclusive or not we all know how well it is going to sell (read: no better than another smartphone, but it sure is not going to steal a lot of sales from the average-phone-using crowd).
 
Every single member on this forum could switch, and Cingular wouldn't notice they're there, and the other provider wouldn't notice they're gone.

And Cingular isn't going to get a bunch of new customers. Well, it depends on what you define a bunch as. Maybe to us, a million is a lot, but when Cingular has nearly 60 million customers, the million isn't a lot. It's not even a drop in the bucket....and I doubt Cingular will even get a million new customers.

First, any decent company would notice a 1.7% uptick in their customer volume. Not saying Cingular is a decent company, but tone down the hyperbole. They'd notice 1 million new customers, and Verizon would notice the loss.

That having been said, I really doubt there will be 1 million new Cingular customers as well.

My analysis is that there are "hard" and "soft" reasons someone is with their current cellular provider.

HARD:
* Service reliability (in the area where they live, the area where they work, and the area in between at minimum).
* Feature availability (3G networks if needed, bluetooth file transfers if needed, etc)
* [Time-limited] Lock-in from contract

SEMI-SOFT:
* Price of service plans
* Available phone features
* [-] Inability to get "new customer" discount when contract ends

SOFT:
* Previous experiences with companies
* [-] Cool new phones exclusive to other providers

Even the coolest new phone has a hard time going against the "hard" reasons above. While some areas are blessed with decent coverage from multiple cellular companies, I've never lived in one. Everywhere I've lived has had a "good coverage" provider and a slew of "you won't be able to make a call half of the time" providers. There's no sense getting a cool phone if you can't make a call on it. Likewise, if you can't afford to use the cool features on your phone then they're as good as not there; plan pricing will easily trump features when those features use the network (as cell providers wish all cool features did).

My prediction is that Cingular will see an uptick in new subscribers when the iPhone comes out, but not long-term significant. How significant in the short term depends on how well it prices plans to use the iPhone; long-term gains will require network improvements on both the speed and coverage sides. That having been said, the history of the cell provider industry in the past ten years is that such exclusives provide a nice boost, and without any exclusives the provider loses market share in the long term.

Ever heard of the term MVNO?. Look it up in google.
BTW, it means mobile virtual network operator

Yeah. You buy coverage from the established companies and market it to customers. While it is a possibility, MVNOs will always (assuming no massive regulation of the industry) lose to the primary networks. While Apple could make itself another "me too" in the industry going that route, they couldn't shape the industry because they would always be beholden to the actual infrastructure owners.

IMHO, not a likely scenario for Apple to pursue. It is possible, but not likely. And becoming an MVNO would not, by any stretch of the imagination, have the effect on Cingular the original poster claimed (stealing all of Cingular's customers because they have the call list and can annoy said customers with dinner-time calls until they relent and bow down to their new cell phone overlords).
 
First, any decent company would notice a 1.7% uptick in their customer volume. Not saying Cingular is a decent company, but tone down the hyperbole. They'd notice 1 million new customers, and Verizon would notice the loss.

That having been said, I really doubt there will be 1 million new Cingular customers as well.

My analysis is that there are "hard" and "soft" reasons someone is with their current cellular provider.

HARD:
* Service reliability (in the area where they live, the area where they work, and the area in between at minimum).
* Feature availability (3G networks if needed, bluetooth file transfers if needed, etc)
* [Time-limited] Lock-in from contract

SEMI-SOFT:
* Price of service plans
* Available phone features
* [-] Inability to get "new customer" discount when contract ends

SOFT:
* Previous experiences with companies
* [-] Cool new phones exclusive to other providers

Even the coolest new phone has a hard time going against the "hard" reasons above. While some areas are blessed with decent coverage from multiple cellular companies, I've never lived in one. Everywhere I've lived has had a "good coverage" provider and a slew of "you won't be able to make a call half of the time" providers. There's no sense getting a cool phone if you can't make a call on it. Likewise, if you can't afford to use the cool features on your phone then they're as good as not there; plan pricing will easily trump features when those features use the network (as cell providers wish all cool features did).

My prediction is that Cingular will see an uptick in new subscribers when the iPhone comes out, but not long-term significant. How significant in the short term depends on how well it prices plans to use the iPhone; long-term gains will require network improvements on both the speed and coverage sides. That having been said, the history of the cell provider industry in the past ten years is that such exclusives provide a nice boost, and without any exclusives the provider loses market share in the long term.

yeah I think that going to be the case. I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to switch over to cingular and really regret it. A lot of those people are on this board. They reason they are switching is for the soft reasons you listed. Always a bad bad idea if they pay no attention to the ones above it because after the newest factor wears off (2-3 weeks) the regret will set in and now they are going to be dealing with a network that could easily be really bad where they live and the coverage will be poor (which I think is the number one reason to figure out which provider to go with. Always choose one that network covers well where you are).

The reason I switch over from Verizon to Sprint was Verizon network coverage was crap where I spend about 1/2 my year and then 2 years later I switch to cingular because cingular coverage is better where I spend most of my time. Spint was get at my university but it coverage on my drive home was poor and there where more dead spots. Also Cingular mobile to mobile was a huge plus to me because most of my friends are cingular.

The phones that cingular has compared to the others plays no part in who I will choose. I pick my phone after I choose who I am going to go with and for that that is cingular.
 
My quandry is simple; Verizon clearly sucks, they have horrible customer service and lock down everything so they can make money off of it. Unfortunately, in my area, the only cell phone company with reception worth using is Verizon; Cingular's "Least Dropped Calls" argument does not hold up here. TMobile is gaining on Verizon in reliability, but I don't really want to use them for personal reasons (I worked for a TMobile store once, didn't like their practices). The thing is, I'd love an iPhone, but in this area, I'd definately be sacrificing reliability.

Disclaimer
: I want to clarify before a TMobile employee attacks; I worked for a TMobile authorized retailer and it was their practices I did not like, not TMobile as a whole. As a result, I would just prefer to not work for them. Strangely enough, they are now a Sprint authorized retailer.

Yeah. You buy coverage from the established companies and market it to customers. While it is a possibility, MVNOs will always (assuming no massive regulation of the industry) lose to the primary networks. While Apple could make itself another "me too" in the industry going that route, they couldn't shape the industry because they would always be beholden to the actual infrastructure owners.

IMHO, not a likely scenario for Apple to pursue. It is possible, but not likely. And becoming an MVNO would not, by any stretch of the imagination, have the effect on Cingular the original poster claimed (stealing all of Cingular's customers because they have the call list and can annoy said customers with dinner-time calls until they relent and bow down to their new cell phone overlords).


Well, you don't know what is likely. Even if it is not likely, why bet it is not?. Even if apple were to annoy cingular customers with dinner calls and half of them tell them to go to hell, the point is that they have a list to work with. If that was trivial, every company would have a list and no one would pay for it. Are you aware that companies pay a lot of money for customer lists?. This is free to apple. Whether they take advantage or not is irrelevant, the point is, they get tangible priceless property for free. Now, it may just be that cingular agreement with apple forbades them from poaching their customers but that is difficult to enforce... more likely would be an agreement with cingular not to enter the cell market for X number of years, otherwise, cingular is just selling its soul just to get a cool phone of the month. After the iphone, there will be other cool phones.. remember the razr?. When it came out, everyone and their cat wanted one. All the teeny boppers had one and even adults. (i did not and am sure there are many that did not but you get the point, the phones were hot). If I ran Cingular, you could never get me to sell my soul for a cool toy of the week.. i am sorry. Consumer taste are too ficke for apple to gurantee sales of this phone for any significant period of time. My customer list would be 100 times more valuable than any new cool toy.
 
Yep, those terms from Apple are so draconian. I'm really not surprised they told Apple where they could stick them!

The carriers should be able to subsidise how they like - also, its better for the consumer.
I don't think they're draconian. Apple has a unique way of designing and selling and it's part of the reality distortion field (rdf). Every advertiser does their own version of an rdf... Apple just does it well. I'm sure it's in Apple's best interests (for now), and that should be good for the network provider too.

A bad move by Apple would be to make one deal and then force a change to one that wasn't good for the network provider (I'm sure they'll change their deals & methods over time!).

While some areas are blessed with decent coverage from multiple cellular companies, I've never lived in one. Everywhere I've lived has had a "good coverage" provider and a slew of "you won't be able to make a call half of the time" providers. There's no sense getting a cool phone if you can't make a call on it. Likewise, if you can't afford to use the cool features on your phone then they're as good as not there; plan pricing will easily trump features when those features use the network (as cell providers wish all cool features did).
Agreed on both counts - coverage and plan costs. Atleast when you're at home or work, the costs for data should be nothing.

If Apple allowed you to seamlessly switch to VoIP when at home or work (still charging something, and even giving Cingular a cut?) you could be guaranteed of great coverage at home and work and, probably, quite adequate coverage elsewhere on most networks.
 
For all those bashing Verizon or Cingular, factor this in... according to Consumer Reports (the only non-biased source on this board), Verizon is generally tops all-around in service/support but only by a couple percentage points (which aren't meaningful in their tests). So whatever bed Apple decided to get into, they knew it wasn't going to be very pretty for whatever carrier they chose.

Why would Apple NOT want it's iPhone in as many distribution channels as possible?
Because Apple is trying to position this product as more of a computer than a phone. And nobody knows Apple products better than Apple itself. Apple tried the sales/support things years ago when they tried to put Macs in Best Buy and other retail stores—the sales people were generally clueless about Macs in general and Apple ended up pulling the plug on the whole ordeal and ended up going with their own stores. (The best move they could have made.) Verizon/Cingular/etc has a lot of phones—you think every employee who works at a Cellphone kiosk knows the ins/outs, how it syncs with iTunes, using widgets, etc? I doubt it. If your iPod breaks, you generally don't go back to the store for support—you call Apple. I'd imagine most of the support requests for the phone aren't going to revolve around Cingular; they're going to involve the software aspects of the phone.
 
I think the apple move to cingular is great. This gives cingular the chance to gain more clients and improve there network coverage and high speed internet on your phone.

I switched from nextel/sprint in Oct 2006, signed up with cingular and there service has been great so far.
 
This should have more positive votes than negative. Verizon is known to cripple their phones. If Verizon got this then there wouldn't be any wifi and limited bluetooth. Also, iPhone, welcome to two years. My Pocket PC is way beyond you.
 
For all those bashing Verizon or Cingular, factor this in... according to Consumer Reports (the only non-biased source on this board), Verizon is generally tops all-around in service/support but only by a couple percentage points (which aren't meaningful in their tests).

A year ago a friend of mine went with Verizon because of this Consumer Reports source. Every time I talk to him he drops 2 or 3 times a call and the poor guy has to put up with me making fun of him (because he insisted I was making a mistake going with T-Mobile).
 
For all those bashing Verizon or Cingular, factor this in... according to Consumer Reports (the only non-biased source on this board), Verizon is generally tops all-around in service/support but only by a couple percentage points (which aren't meaningful in their tests). So whatever bed Apple decided to get into, they knew it wasn't going to be very pretty for whatever carrier they chose.

Being reliable and being open/pro-consumer are two VERY different things.
 
This should have more positive votes than negative. Verizon is known to cripple their phones.
That's what I absolutely hate about Verizon... they cripple their phones (not to mention they're anti-union but let's not go down that road atm) so they can nickel/dime you for other things. The article doesn't mention it but I'm sure Verizon would have wanted VCast integrated in some way with the iTunes Store—of course sharing profits with Apple. The iTunes store is Apple's baby—God forbid let's not taint it with Verizon. Verizon's slogan should be.. (How) Can we screw you now?!
 
Maybe the contract in only applicable to the first iPhone and not the entire line of things to follow.
Also, I've bounced around from carier to carier and have settled on Verizon for solid coverage. I don't use Vcast or any other entertainment features. I just want my phone to work where ever I am. One user posted that "I don't need my phone to work in the back of a cave". I don't understand that comment. I don't "need" my phone to work in a lot of places but its nice when it does. Isn't that the point of a cellular telephone is that you can use it anywhere? I've heard variouse comments that dispute which company has the "largest network". I've heard Cingular has it and I've heard that Cingular is refering to number of subscribers it has when it touts those numbers. Emperical evidence for me is that Verizon works more places without droped calles than any of the providors I've tested. Also, I havn't seen too many coverage complaints on this forum about Verizon. I see complaints about the geek features (ie bluetooth music, ringtone, wallpaper transfers) but not too many on the coverage most people actually buy a phone for in the first place. I even see comments that say that "Even though Cingulars coverage isn't that great I'm still switching to the iPhone."
Maybe Apple is on to something here. People are willing to sacrifice their phones main use for a built in iPod. I love my iPod, my Mac and my PDA, it would be nice to have them all together but I'm not willing to to sacrifice coverage for features.

Obviously coverage is very relitive to where you live and even more so, where you use your phone. There is always going to be one apartment complex where carrier "A" doesn't work. That said, I'd like to know what coverage experience others on this forum have had.

Also, I'm tired of the iPhone GSM CDMA issue. Isn't the iPhone pushing their internet browsing and isn't CDMA currently better suited to the data task? Then there is the "world standard" but according to this article from apple insider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1770) The US instalation base for iPods is around 70%. That means the whole rest of the world combined only comes up with about 30% of Apples iPod business. Thats still a lot when combind but considering that the US is still the large majority of their iPod income I don't see it as a huge issue. If it is that profitable they could just make a dual mode phone as a few manufactures already have at a cost well below the iPhones cost. Also, do that many of the posters on this board regualry travel abroad? I would wager that of the one ones who do regualrly that most are on business trips. As has been stated, the iPhone will not replace the blackberry or other such device that the majority of business users needing PDA's would want.
 
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