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Verizon Testing CDMA-Compatible iPads? Possibly LTE 4G?
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I'm still shocked that a country as large as the USA is using such old CDMA technology which is antiquated. Here in Australia the CDMA network was shut down in 1991, and replaced with the NextG network which is faster and operates on 3G UMTS 850mhz network that runs faster, in fact up to 21m/bit.
CDMA or UMTS in 1991? No sir. I think it's more like:
In 1993 Australia started moving from the old analog AMPS system to GSM 2G.
Around 2003 carriers deployed CDMA in addition to GSM in order to get 3G and because CDMA reached further in the outback.
In 2008 the last CDMA tower was shut down and switched to UMTS-3G.
I've spoken with someone I know at Verizon and he's unaware of this. Verizon does have a couple of iPad-like devices they've been working on, but has largely been uninterested in Apple due to their strongarm tactics.
And as for LTE, come the end of the year it will be covering that whole red map. All of Verizon's coverage area that is currently 3G is supposed to launch into LTE in time for a massive Christmas campaign. They have multiple Android devices planned (and RIM is working on a Blackberry) and are hoping to use their year plus advantage to seriously damage both AT&T and Apple. Verizon also knows that AT&T is over a year away from only a partial 4G rollout.
I've been told that Verizon will only take Apple if they come begging for Verizon's help. Apple's initial demands over the iPhone really turned the VZW people off and they've been very happy with Android.
They might take the iPad if there are no strings attached for Verizon. But they're more likely to stick with the Android based pad they've been working on and will probably carry Dell, HP, and whatever other devices come down the line, using their upcoming LTE network as a way to hammer the iPad and the iPhone. They know that AT&T has largely only kept afloat on the back of Apple and Apple's biggest weakness is attaching themselves to AT&T. There's a reason Apple went to Verizon first.
Just imagine when all of that red is LTE at this point next year and most of AT&T is still EDGE with only a few of the blue bits even getting LTE. That's Verizon's attack plan right now. Instead of throwing more money towards placating Apple like AT&T did, Verizon invested in their network infrastructure.
And as for LTE, come the end of the year it will be covering that whole red map. All of Verizon's coverage area that is currently 3G is supposed to launch into LTE in time for a massive Christmas campaign. They have multiple Android devices planned (and RIM is working on a Blackberry) and are hoping to use their year plus advantage to seriously damage both AT&T and Apple. Verizon also knows that AT&T is over a year away from only a partial 4G rollout.
I've been told that Verizon will only take Apple if they come begging for Verizon's help. Apple's initial demands over the iPhone really turned the VZW people off and they've been very happy with Android.
They might take the iPad if there are no strings attached for Verizon. But they're more likely to stick with the Android based pad they've been working on and will probably carry Dell, HP, and whatever other devices come down the line, using their upcoming LTE network as a way to hammer the iPad and the iPhone. They know that AT&T has largely only kept afloat on the back of Apple and Apple's biggest weakness is attaching themselves to AT&T. There's a reason Apple went to Verizon first.
Just imagine when all of that red is LTE at this point next year and most of AT&T is still EDGE with only a few of the blue bits even getting LTE. That's Verizon's attack plan right now. Instead of throwing more money towards placating Apple like AT&T did, Verizon invested in their network infrastructure.
Verizon also knows that AT&T is over a year away from only a partial 4G rollout.
I've been told that Verizon will only take Apple if they come begging for Verizon's help. Apple's initial demands over the iPhone really turned the VZW people off and they've been very happy with Android.
They might take the iPad if there are no strings attached for Verizon. But they're more likely to stick with the Android based pad they've been working on and will probably carry Dell, HP, and whatever other devices come down the line, using their upcoming LTE network as a way to hammer the iPad and the iPhone. They know that AT&T has largely only kept afloat on the back of Apple and Apple's biggest weakness is attaching themselves to AT&T. There's a reason Apple went to Verizon first.
Just imagine when all of that red is LTE at this point next year and most of AT&T is still EDGE with only a few of the blue bits even getting LTE. That's Verizon's attack plan right now. Instead of throwing more money towards placating Apple like AT&T did, Verizon invested in their network infrastructure.
I Highly doubt that verizon's entire network will be 4G by christmas. And also Apple running to verizon? Please give me a break. Apple doesn't need verizon it's pretty much the other way around.
Doubt it if you like. They're running test markets now, but are already installed in all the major cities. They just have to flip the switch.
Apple will need Verizon when 4G hits. Even the iPhone won't be able to survive if AT&T is languishing on 3G for a year plus while Verizon is offering 4G data plans on LTE.
Apple's problem is it thinks it can force its terms on people. The problem for them is that an anti-trust suit from the government is coming. Jobs was really not smart opening his mouth about Flash, especially since its problems on the Mac are all Apple's fault due to their horrid API and the fact that they don't allow direct hardware access to anyone but themselves. Apple likes to make sure anyone developing on their platform can be crushed if they need to be. They've become so much like Microsoft used to be and have lost their way.
Things look good now, but the humble pie is coming and I think the end game will leave Steve Jobs forced out in the next few years. And if Jobs leaves you can bet the value for Apple will plummet.
it's nice to speculate and can i borrow your crystal ball when your done? I would like to see if the chicago cubs will ever win the world series.
Even if Verizon has 4G first that doesn't matter. It's not about who has something first it's about who does it better.
Sure AT&T may take longer but then they can let verizon be the guinea pig and see the hiccups that their rushed LTE network has.
Also when VZ did the LTE trial in boston the network Averaged 8 megs.
now that was on a closed network. And in Sweden where Telia Sonera has the first 4G network the speeds are 12 megs.
But HSPA+ can also average anywhere between 8-21 Megs for data speeds.
So pretty much AT&T is rolling out HSPA + and will be able to compete with LTE while they are building up their network.
Good luck getting ANYWHERE close to those theoretical HSPA+ speeds. Even in great AT&T 3G coverage my Droid still pulls consistently faster speeds (albeit slightly) than my friends 3GS.
True and that's because the chipset in the current iPhone doesn't support it. The 3GS only supports HSDPA not HSPA +. The next one will most likely support it.
True, no one gets the theoretical speeds on any network.
If someone was the only HSPA+ user on a tower, or they were sitting perfectly still, they could probably get 8-13MBps down and 3-5Mbps up.
Real life HSPA+ tests, with other users and while moving, average around 3MBps download speed and 1-2Mbps upload.
Which is excellent for most people. A video call takes about 0.5MBps, HD video watching takes about 1Mbps, server delays become more important for web surfing once you go over 2Mbps, etc.
More speed than that only becomes important when you're multitasking or transferring really large files, such as downloading a movie.
If someone was the only HSPA+ user on a tower, or they were sitting perfectly still, they could probably get 8-13MBps down and 3-5Mbps up.
Real life HSPA+ tests, with other users and while moving, average around 3MBps download speed and 1-2Mbps upload.
Which is excellent for most people. A video call takes about 0.5MBps, HD video watching takes about 1Mbps, server delays become more important for web surfing once you go over 2Mbps, etc.
More speed than that only becomes important when you're multitasking or transferring really large files, such as downloading a movie.
What exactly are you calling outdated? The original GSM network was rolled out in 1990 while CDMA was rolled out in 1995. Both have continued to upgrade to different versions of their protocols over the years.
The GSMA finally dumped the crappy TDMA air interface and went with W-CDMA for it's superior spread spectrum technology like CDMA used.
CDMA is not old or outdated just because the carriers in Australia moved off of it. In fact, it was superior to what GSM was using until their adoption of W-CDMA.
All carriers have different schedules for rolling out and upgrading their technology. The result is that for some time certain carriers have the cutting edge while the others are a bit behind. Usually the other carriers leapfrog and this goes back and forth. Currently Verizon is on the back-side of this leap frog, but the rollout of LTE will put them back in front. Inevitably AT&T will come back and rollout a later spec of LTE or something and jump back to the front. This is just the nature of technology.
If Verizon is really being that arrogant, it's sad. They won't be getting me back as a customer for the forseeable future unless they get the iPhone. At this point I have too much invested in the iPhone ecosystem.
+1
I disagree here. Apple will eventually reach a saturation point with AT&T. To get any decent volume of new customer sales in the US, they will have to add another carrier.
Yes, for the major cities perhaps. But it's very unlikely that the entire coverage area would be LTE. If for no other reason, there's not enough manpower to install all of the equipment in the towers in such a short time.
I'd argue that Verizon's problem is that they think they can force all their terms on the phone manufacturers. It's absolute BS. They've hampered the rollout of the nicest coolest phones for too long by adding all their extra crap to them. It seems they may have seen the light of day with the Droid....this is what gives me hope that they might finally get an iPhone.
You just gave the strangest argument. MS is completely open and allows anybody to develop on their platform. And Apple is not. Your argument makes no sense.
Regardless, I don't think the government gives a crap about flash. They may care about the dev tools, but that's still a longshot.
Steve will have to go at some point, if for no other reason than he's eventually gonna be too old to run the company. But he's still riding high, stockholders are happy, I don't see it being anytime soon.
It makes perfect sense because many issues that people have with programs on a Mac are directly related to Apple's complete control.
Flash doesn't cause the slightest flicker of a CPU hit on my Win7 machine because it can directly access the GPU. Apple prevents that. Only Apple programs can directly access the hardware on a Mac. That means that Apple ensures it has a competitive advantage over all of its developers. If you cross Apple, they'll just come out with a product that'll blow yours away on the platform performance wise because Apple makes sure their developers don't have the best tools.
Same thing for their customers. They make sure as many people become co-dependent on them as possible. The whole iTunes infrastructure is based on that. The iPhone and the iPad are massive grabs to completely control their user bases.
If this were a marriage then I would say that Apple had all the qualities of an abuser.
Presently the Feds are looking into how Apple has used its position with iTunes to dictate terms in regards to competitors. If that happened, it can result in an anti-trust suit. And the Justice Dept has expanded the inquiry.
The problem is that Apple has pissed off a lot of people by trying to claim "openness" first and then creating a closed ecosystem where they hold all the cards.
Justice is talking to record companies and others in the industry to get a feel for if Apple is using its leverage to stifle competition. If they are then the anti-trust suit will come. And Apple will probably end up swinging a deal where they will be forced to open up the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, and the Mac completely and bascially give people the option of not using iTunes, allowing others to sell apps and create fully functional products that can interact with those devices. And a large fine will also likely be part of that.
And then Jobs will "resign" in frustration, though he'd likely be forced out.
I see it in the building backlash towards Apple. While many continue to buy their products, many are beginning to loathe them. They are no longer the little engine that could. They are now Goliath. They are what MS was in the 1990s to many people. Controlling, manipulative. They have a better cult built around them because they've gotten people emotionally attached to their products, but the backlash in brewing.
Within the next two years Apple will take a big fall. That's why I'll be selling my shares by the end of this year. I see it coming. I know I went from a huge Apple fan to one that loathes what they're doing. They just seek to squelch competition and Jobs essentially made a power play that I think he hoped would cause Adobe to pull CS5 in protest so that Apple could come out with their out photo software that throw into Final Cut Studio. Steve Jobs goes to bed every night hating that he can't seem to get rid of Photoshop and make Apple users even more dependent on him. You need to give Steve complete control. Only then can you be truly happy.
That's how Jobs thinks.
Again, you compared Apple to MS....they are not alike in this area so not sure how you mean they have "become so much like Microsoft used to be".
Not sure why the justice dept cares about their dev platform. There's no real legal issue there. They don't have a monopoly, far from it. The iTunes issue makes much more sense due to the power that Apple wields in this area. But this in no way translates to other areas of their business.
I Disagree with that look at Sumner Redstone, Warren Buffett, Rupert Murdoch, Ed Whitacre and lots of other people and they are all CEO's ranging from their 60's to age 82. So they would qualify as Old" to you but yet they are going strong.
So Steve Jobs could be the same..
Hahaha...well I meant when he was phyiscally too old to do it. So yeah, he could still be going strong for quite some time.
Doesn't anybody pay attention to Apple's strategies regarding technology? The reason we don't have a CDMA iPhone or iPad is because CDMA is on the way out. GSM is a worldwide standard and allows Apple to increase its economies of scale by producing large quantities of a single device that can be used in as many markets as possible.
Apple could have allowed Flash, but HTML-5 is the future and Flash is the past. The same goes for CDMA. LTE is the future, and when Verizon gets on board with a technology that will allow Apple to produce one iPhone for AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint, that's when we will see it.
Apple could have allowed Flash, but HTML-5 is the future and Flash is the past. The same goes for CDMA. LTE is the future, and when Verizon gets on board with a technology that will allow Apple to produce one iPhone for AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint, that's when we will see it.
Doesn't anybody read up on wireless technology before posting about it? CDMA is no more on it's way out than UMTS. GSM is no longer a technology, it's actually the GSMA which is the association that sets the technology standard given the generic title of GSM and the current horse they are riding is UMTS (W-CDMA to be specific)....it's NOT a "global standard" anymore than NTSC is for TV. It's just that a lot of carriers have chosen it, and in Europe it is mandated.
At least you got the LTE part right, but what you forget is that CDMA will be supported for the next 10 years and will most likely still be the voice protocol for most phones in for the forseeable future. Any LTE phone produced will have the ability to fall back on CDMA and or UMTS.
Regarding economies of scale, the 522M CDMA subscribers allow Apple to hit that scale easily.
I prefer paying attention to actual iPhone history. Apple first approached Verizon in 2005. After a year of no Verizon contract, Apple gave up and signed with AT&T.
The reason there's no CDMA iPhone is because Verizon said no to some of Apple's conditions five years ago.
Verizon's said that CDMA will be around until at least the end of the decade.
So you're basically claiming that Apple is unable to profitably produce two versions like every other phone manufacturer ? That's a pretty big diss of Apple.
Perhaps you meant that you think Apple doesn't _want_ to produce two versions, which at least could make some real life sense.