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Firewire is flat out faster.

USB won because it was cheap. The chips for USB devices are cheaper, and I don't know if there is any licensing, but that could be a factor. But that doesn't mean FW is dead. FW is still around, and they are still making computers and devices with it. It's clearly not as common as USB, but it is better for some things, like anything realtime (audio or video) and is a little faster for hard drives (and FW 800 is nearly 3x as fast as USB for hard drives). Camcorders used to only have FW to get video off them. That's because tape-based camcorders played video back in realtime, and Firewire was the only thing that could guarantee that transfer rate so there were no dropped frames. Now that a lot more camcorders store data on disks or flash memory, they can use USB. Camcorder makers want to use USB because it's cheaper and more common, and consumers want USB because it is easier to find a computer with USB. As a result, there is decreasing demand for FW because it is no longer required for what used to be one of its main applications (camcorders).

FW 800 never took off. It is probably more expensive than FW400. FW3200 is probably already dead since USB 3 already has an advantage in terms of backwards compatibility and Light Peak is technically better than both of them.

USB is limited to 30m with 5 active hubs. Lightpeak should be good up to kilometers.

I really wish Apple would add an eSATA port. They could make it a combo USB/eSATA port, so they wouldn't even need to increase the number of ports.
The main reason why Firewire never took off (at least, in regards to the wide-spread acceptance for USB), was that at the time that Firewire debuted, not only was Apple wanting to charge a per-port licensing fee, but it also cost extra to integrate Firewire into a system. Around the time that Apple was trying to push Firewire, I believe chipset manufacturers were already beginning to incorporate USB into what was then the southbridge chipset, resulting in no additional costs for motherboard manufacturers. If I recall correctly, USB was also developed by an open consortium of companies, and thus it was agreed upon that there wouldn't be any licensing costs for implementing the standard itself (strangely enough, I do think they require you license the USB logo though if you want to use it, LOL)

To implement firewire usually meant adding in another chip to provide that functionality, and if you're having to pay for that + a per-port cost to Apple for each Firewire port used, you can see how that would quickly add up.

I think Apple ultimately reduced the amount that they were asking for, but by then it was too late, as manufacturers had become embittered. The only reason Firewire survived was because Apple hardware was extensively used by so many professionals, that it made sense to incorporate Firewire as the connection standard for professional and semi-professional AV devices.

(Also, don't consider this as a knock on Apple in terms of them trying to get royalties for Firewire. Most companies try: sometimes they're successful, sometimes they're not. In this case, Apple generally wasn't successful).

And yeah, I wish Apple would implement eSATA too :(
 
The main reason why Firewire never took off...

And Apple killed 1394b (800 Mbps) with its upsell tactics.

For the first few years, Apple's reserving FW800 ports for high-end machines only meant that the market for FW800 peripherals was miniscule.

Had Apple put FW800 on everything, top to bottom, it could have brought about a critical mass of FW800 peripherals, and led other companies to include FW800 ports.

It also would have been nice if the FW800 connectors had been compatible with FW400 connectors.
 
And Apple killed 1394b (800 Mbps) with its upsell tactics.

For the first few years, Apple's reserving FW800 ports for high-end machines only meant that the market for FW800 peripherals was miniscule.

Had Apple put FW800 on everything, top to bottom, it could have brought about a critical mass of FW800 peripherals, and led other companies to include FW800 ports.

It also would have been nice if the FW800 connectors had been compatible with FW400 connectors.
I vaguely remember a few top-of-the-market PC motherboard manufacturers advertising FW800 ports, but that's about it. I think pretty much even the enthusiast aftermarket motherboard available only use 1394a.
 
strike, I know you're just trolling, but for everyone else out there who doesn't get it:

1. Yes, USB is cheaper. USB won the consumer market.

2. FireWire is far from dead, as evidenced by the outrage when Apple removed it. Professional gear uses it for the higher sustained throughput and lower CPU utilization. Professional video gear never uses USB for video transfer and only portable, small number of channels (maybe 16 tops but typically 2-4) audio input devices use USB.

Both have a very valid market. USB's is much larger due to cost but USB doesn't replace FireWire for the specialized applications it's required for...
 
sure is but what computers come with an external eSATA port? im sure there are some but i dont know of them, also do many external hdd's have eSATA interfaces? I wish more computers DID have the eSATA port but well.. they dont.

I believe eSATA is faster than Firewire 800, but the problem with eSATA is it doesn't provide power. Not so practical, which is why I think we haven't seen wide adoption.

However, there's always FireWire S1600/S3200, USB 3.0 to look forward to. :)

Back on-topic tho, does this mean I have to wait for DisplayPort 1.1a cables? Or can/will the Mac be updated later with something like an EFI update?
 
if full sized display port and HDMI fit on a netbook why would you want to make a "Mini DP"?

macbooks and mbp's arent small at all, they are 13.3" or larger
an MSI Wind U210 netbook has BOTH VGA and HDMI out as well as 3 USB Ports.

there is no reason to use Mini DP, just use full sized DP like dell does,
 
I believe eSATA is faster than Firewire 800, but the problem with eSATA is it doesn't provide power. Not so practical, which is why I think we haven't seen wide adoption.

However, there's always FireWire S1600/S3200, USB 3.0 to look forward to. :)

Back on-topic tho, does this mean I have to wait for DisplayPort 1.1a cables? Or can/will the Mac be updated later with something like an EFI update?

not for long, the new eSATA will be 6 Gbits and will provide power, however, 6Gbits actually isnt fast enough for the newer SSD's that copy at 550MB/s, the bus will be saturated with 2 of those drives in a stripe
 
I've seen a few Dells with combo eSATA/USB ports. A large number of external drives have eSATA, and sSATA enclosures are very cheap because no "brains" are required to connect eSATA to a SATA drive. It costs very little to add eSATA to an enclosure that already has some other interface. An enclosure with eSATA, USB, and power can be had for under $20, while the cheapest FW800 enclosures are still at least $60. (My desktop motherboard came with an eSATA bracket and an eSATA to SATA cable and a SATA power cable that connects to the bracket so I can connect any SATA drive with no enclosure at all).

FW and USB can only power 2.5" drives, and 3.5" drives need power no matter what interface they are hooked up to. My 2.5" eSATA/USB enclosure has a USB cable that can provide power only if the enclosure is connected by eSATA. Of course a 2-cable solution is not very elegant, and the USB-power cable might as well be proprietary, but at least that gives the full speed of eSATA. It should be possible, in theory, to make a combo eSATA/USB cable that gets data from eSATA and power from USB. maybe they already make one of these, but I haven't seen one.
 
Yay. Another absolutely pointless type of connector. Why does Apple insist on doing this? It's going to be a huge failure just like Firewire.

firewire is a failure?
of course, thats why ALL poweruser external drives use it, and ALL worthmentioning audio interfaces use it.
bravo.

please, stop trolling and take your kiddie nonsense elsewhere
 
My ATI card offers audio and video through HDMI to a TV ;]
hdmiaudio.jpg

Meet the Apple's LED Cinema Display, which has audio via mDP.

http://www.apple.com/displays/
 
sure is but what computers come with an external eSATA port? im sure there are some but i dont know of them, also do many external hdd's have eSATA interfaces? I wish more computers DID have the eSATA port but well.. they dont.

Lots of computers and external hard drives now come with eSATA. So many, that I have now purchased an eSATA card for my MacBook Pro.
 
HDMI can't do that. Neither can VGA or DVI, because all three are protocols that are stuck in the 60s. This is the entire point of DisplayPort. It's packet based. It can do all kinds of magic.


That was kinda my point (hence the rolleyes) but thanks for pointing out my inability to portray sarcasm in textual form!
 
Yet, the "Mbox Pro" is firewire... As is the 003....

And the HD|3 System I use is PCI Express, and the 002 I use is FireWire (better Pre-amps in my opinion than the 003). I make money from all of them. Just because I use a USB device on occasion makes me no Amateur.

As far as I'm aware, The MBox Pro requires an External Power Supply, so you can't really take it to the Beach or on location to find some 'found-sounds'

It matters not which connector my MBox uses, the point I was trying to make is whilst FireWire is the typical accepted standard and best in most-cases standard, if you happen to have some USB devices, you're by no means 'Amateur'
 
DisplayPort is capable of carrying sound.

Too bad it doesn't currently support lossless audio. It appears that it currently only support up to DD+ (6.1Mbit/s). Where Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA both can be up to 18Mbit/s-24Mbit/s. Hopefully the newer specification allots some of that bandwidth to sound as well.
 
What problem is mini displayport trying to solve? Displayport connectors are too large? It's the size of an HDMI port, which is hardly cumbersome for anything larger than a Blackberry.

Um,

IMG_0705.jpg


Not to mention the technical advantages but it is one of the smaller display ports available.
 
MDP has little advantage besides size. The size benefit is only useful on notebooks. I'd rather DVI or HDMI on my desktop

Although it has finally gained VESA approval, there is no incentive for display manufacturers to produce it. It'll die just like the other apple connectivity ventures.
 
Um,

IMG_0705.jpg


Not to mention the technical advantages but it is one of the smaller display ports available.

What brand of connector is that HDMI cable? Apple's own? I have seen HDMI connectors without the large surrounding plastic and they are certainly not oversized. Around the same size as USB.
 
VGA ad DVI are more prevalent right now, but you have obviously never had to mess with plugging in a monitor where the connector is behind the computer and almost impossible to get to. the mini Display Port is much much smaller and from what it looks like is more like a USB connection. This is much easier to plug in and not have to worry about screwing down the DVI connection, etc.

From what I have seen it is most hard to get the monitor producers to switch over. They tend to stick with the older DVI/VGA instead of moving to the newer connector types. I think graphics hard manufacturers are moving a little quicker. It took them a while to do HDMI (which never really caught on in the computer monitor area, but did for TV's) but I think they will be quicker to move to Display Port.

What brand of connector is that HDMI cable? Apple's own? I have seen HDMI connectors without the large surrounding plastic and they are certainly not oversized. Around the same size as USB.

Umm that is not the point of the picture. Look at just the connector (not all the plastic crap around it). HDMI is by far larger.

As for your comparing it to USB that is another fail. HDMI are roughly about 2 times the sides a of USB port. and they go in 2 times deeper than a US port.

The Mini DVI I do not see replacing the DVI on desktop because it is is not screwed into place and can get yanked out to easily but on laptops the quite disconnecting is an assets not a draw back.

As for HDMI not taking off on desktops I can give a entire list of reasons. The big one is it offers nothing useful over DVI. Transmitting sound is worthless because monitors do not have speakers in them and any one semi-serous about sound quality is going to a separated speaker system completely killing the point.
Add in the fact that HDMI reqiure a lot more depth build onto the graphic card is another killer. They are already cramped for room and what HDMI would eat up would be painful deal with.

Largest reason HDMI never took off on computer is it offer nothing over DVI that is useful. For TV HDMI added a lot since it reduced the wire requirement and most TV today offer digital sound outputs to transmit to the a sound system.
 
if full sized display port and HDMI fit on a netbook why would you want to make a "Mini DP"?

macbooks and mbp's arent small at all, they are 13.3" or larger
an MSI Wind U210 netbook has BOTH VGA and HDMI out as well as 3 USB Ports.

there is no reason to use Mini DP, just use full sized DP like dell does,

Uhm... what does screen size have to do with available motherboard space and thickness of the device?
 
like others said, let's hope that port will not fail just like firewire. And also let's hope that will be a standard also on pc

Why is firewire a failure again? It's faster than USB and readily available, and is the connector of choice among video professionals.

I'd hardly call that a failure.
 
Maybe you should take your own advice and do your own homework - LOL. A USB cable can be extended via active hubs. I am currently running 32 feet via two daisy chained splitters form my server to my dock.

Sorry but I was talking about normal cables without hubs etc. :rolleyes:

258Troll_spray.jpg
 
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