VideoLAN Considering Options for VLC as Mac Developers Disappear

[HLdan]

Developers aren't "abandoning" the Mac platform so much as they're re-focusing on areas where they'll be more profitable (i.e., less freeware/open source development and more towards areas such as iPhone apps).

If anything, I'd imagine that Apple software development is at its highest in years overall, given the increases in marketshare that Apple has been experiencing.

I said that it makes sense to me as to why they'd do it: why put in dozens, hundreds or thousands of hours of development time into a project that provides no financial return when you can spend that time working on an app or apps that will provide financial return?

No where did I say that I thought it was a good thing. Understanding a reason =/= thinking it's a good thing.

Edit - I should add that when I mentioned that I knew only a few Mac developers, that's how it's been for years. They're still developing for Mac, and I even know a few people who started off with Windows and eventually switched. It's just when Windows (between its various versions) is at 93ish % of the market, obviously a large portion of your developer base will be developing for Windows, because that's where they're likely to make the most profit.

And nowhere in my post did I say you thought it was a "good thing", I said you seem to be just fine with the fact that they are abandoning the Mac platform. Your words about them focusing on areas that are more profitable is the same thing as "abandoning". What do you call it when developers put their focus towards where the money is, and stop on areas that don't? A vacation? NO. I call it abandonment.

My point was, if this was really the case that it was just about money, I find it hard to believe the Windows customers are really offering much in donations for VLC. There's more behind it.

 

[Blinkwing]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

Apple != my mother.

We are fully capable of doing what we like with our computers. We do not need a nanny supervising our every click.

You can't play downloaded material with Quicktime?

That's because the codec support blows, to say the least. I don't even like QT at all .. it just sucks!

This is a huge shame because VLC is fantastic!

+1

I'm deaf and VLC is the ONLY app that can add external subtitle files (in most formats) to any movie file I have. I have many DVDs with no subtitles, (some even state on the box they have subtitles, but actually they don't) and with VLC it's a quick trip to opensubtitles.org or allsubs.org to get the file, load it up and I'm ready to watch. Even works with DVDs.

Another VLC bonus: due to the various frame rates used internationally, the subtitles often start lagging, or preceeding the dialogue. In VLC it's easy to move the timing of the subtitles without stopping the film. Can any other OSX film viewer do this?

If VLC dies, I'm gonna be left up ***** creek.

EDIT: saw the post above about MOVIST. Never tried it, looked for their website, but all I can find is a Chinese language website.

I'm in the same situation as you ... hate the MPAA/RIAA attitude regarding subtitling the various zone DVDs (American zoned DVDs have the best support for English SDH subtitles whereas equivalent DVDs from a different region often drop the subtitles.) not to mention streaming from local news/media sites. They don't provide subtitles AT ALL. It's just stupid.

You can get MOVIST from the Google Code site. [link]

 

[mdriftmeyer]

VLC in Cocoa for Mac is NOT Dying: Answers below

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes

Official explanation listed regarding Cocoa and the new Lunettes core.

 

[atticus18244fsa]

VLC is used multiple times a day on my MBP and it's fine the way it is. I don't understand why they think they need to constantly update it.

 

[Eidorian]

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes

Official explanation listed regarding Cocoa and the new Lunettes core.

Support past Leopard was getting tough to come by for VLC. Not that I expected Tiger support today. How did this get blown out of proportion?

 

[VanNess]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:

Finally, we have a few issues, since Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why.

That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:

Videolan.org makes the following claim: "Finally, we have a few issues, since Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why."

See http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=59905#p228791

If true, given the state of Quicktime's historical inoperability with a plentitude of media codecs currently and freely available on the web, and given that there has been no apparent solution provided by the default version of Quicktime player - which is offered, presumably, as Apple's solution for media playback on OS X - and given that VLC has offered a convenient, easy-to-use media player that DOES offer practically universal playback for almost all media codecs encountered on the web without the need for any user intervention, the issue noted above may be enough to abandon Apple's OS X platform.

As we approach the year 2010, it is extraordinary that Apple hasn't appreciated what ordinary users may encounter on the web with respect to various media formats "not supported" by Quicktime. It simply touts Quicktime X (and it's predecessors) as if none of these media formats exist. The message from Apple is that Quicktime player is all that users need. While that would be great if true, ten minutes on the web puts that presumption to bed once and for all.

As a user, I could care less about the bragging rights of technology corporations and I could care less about many times a software program has been downloaded. As a user, I want software that "just works" Nevertheless, a side-by side comparison of the current default version of Quicktime player and VLC shows that Quicktime is virtually crippled with regards to it's ability to playback scores of media codecs IN ACTIVE USE on the web. VLC, on the other hand, has no problem whatsoever.

There simply is no justification for Apple to interfere with the development of VLC, as alleged by the development team at Videolan.org, and offer NOTHING to users as a substitute. Apple should be well aware of the importance of universal web access, and the consequences of actions that result in erecting barriers to entry.

 

[Bafflefish]

And nowhere in my post did I say you thought it was a "good thing", I said you seem to be just fine with the fact that they are abandoning the Mac platform. Your words about them focusing on areas that are more profitable is the same thing as "abandoning". What do you call it when developers put their focus towards where the money is, and stop on areas that don't? A vacation? NO. I call it abandonment.

Semantics much? Here's the quote I'm referring to:

Your post certainly sounds like you're just fine with the fact that developers are abandoning the Mac platform

Sure, I guess "fine with" isn't the same as "a good thing", but seriously, you worded it to suggest I thought it was ok and that I was content with the notion that developers were abandoning the platform. I never think it's a good thing for developers to abandon a platform, unless it's dying and soon to be irrelevant anyway.

What *YOU* call something, only matters in *YOUR* view. Now, in this situation, if a developer completely ceases support or development on a product to shift to an entirely different area, are they abandoning that area? Sure. But what if they step away for awhile to work on something else, and then come back later? I've known plenty of developers who do that because, quite honestly, when you work for months or years on a project, sometimes you just want to do something else for a change. And often enough, people will go back eventually to continue working on their prior project.

And the reality is, many of the people who work on open source projects, do it as a hobby and don't actually do it for financial incentive or such. I've known developers who did development at work, worked on their own side projects at home, and thus often didn't have a lot of time outside of those activities, including for one guy his family. Sometimes people have to step away, and the reality is, as the number of VLC Mac developers diminished, that meant more and more work for the remaining developers. Ultimately it likely got to the point where they were simply spending too much time, and so they stopped.

My point was, if this was really the case that it was just about money, I find it hard to believe the Windows customers are really offering much in donations for VLC. There's more behind it.

Who said anything about Windows customers offering much in donations? The reality though of even donations is that there are likely many more Windows VLC users than OS X VLC users. As such, any call for donations would potentially see a larger amount come from Windows users, since a) that's the larger user base for VLC and b) the Windows version is more regularly updated, thus resulting in users of that version seeing more of a reason to donate.

 

[Berio]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:


That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:
(...)There simply is no justification for Apple to interfere with the development of VLC,

Apple should be well aware of the importance of universal web access, and the consequences of actions that result in erecting barriers to entry.

why do they need to justify anything to anybody?

the more they follow their business strategy, the more computers they sell, the more money they make - why would they care about all this VLC nonsense?

if their powerful rise continues they will dictate which formats and codecs are 'allowed' on the web, there will be no need to have anything besides QT. i presume this is the dream they are working towards. why should they give a damn about VLC and all the moaning on these boards, they will steamroll, destroy and/or swallow all competition and all 3rd party stuff.

 

[totoum]

u.

mplayer might be kind on resources, as reported, although we don't actually know, but otherwise it's crap, I don't know why anyone would choose it over quicktime and vlc that are more feature rich and powerful. But to its his own I guess.

Maybe i'm just in a small "market" but vlc's reputation in the anime subbing community is terrible,mainly because it doesn't handle mkv or h264 well

mplayer extended beats it out in both of those features

 

[AidenShaw]

All the key apps on Windows are made by Microsoft and given away for free by Microsoft.

I'm sure Adobe love Expression studio
I'm sure Lotus were delighted with Excel
I'm sure WordPerfect were delighted with Word
I'm sure Netscape were delighted when Explorer arrived etc.

Wow - just wow!

Expression® Studio 3Estimated Retail Price (ERP)
Full Version $599 USD
Upgrade $349 USD

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Purchase.aspx?key=studio#PageTop​

And I'm sure that most of the readers here were surprised to learn that Microsoft Office was now free.

But you're right that Explorer is included with the OS. Internet Explorer is also included.

 

[Eidorian]

Maybe i'm just in a small "market" but vlc's reputation in the anime subbing community is terrible,mainly because it doesn't handle mkv or h264 well

mplayer extended beats it out in both of those features

VLC's miserable seeking during playback of h.264 in MKV is legendary.

I didn't even need the filename to know what was being played back.

 

[Corrode]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:


That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:

Thanks for writing such a coherent and well though out letter. I hope it makes a difference.

As for .mkvs and H.264, VLC plays them back flawlessly on my mac.

 

[ccdan]

If apple continues on this path, there are good chances that at some point in the future no one might be able to play any media that wasn't bought from apple... they're completely crazy with this control/vendor lock-in thing... they want you to buy from them just about anything you use on your mac/iphone/ipod/etc. ... and even more disturbing is the fact that they try to control even the nature of the media/software used on their devices - for example thy banned "adult content" from app store, certain applications deemed "offensive" (baby shaker) and various applications that might compete with their software/services...

and this idiotic atittude could lead to the collapse of apple in the end...

 

[ampdigitl]

Maybe i'm just in a small "market" but vlc's reputation in the anime subbing community is terrible,mainly because it doesn't handle mkv or h264 well

mplayer extended beats it out in both of those features

that is so true, i just timed it with my iphone.

latest Naruto Shippuuden in 720p mkv on MPlayer OS X Extended 12 - 5 sec to start playing vs 56 seconds on VLC 1.03! I know MPlayer is 64 bit vs VLC being 32bit but dang! I'll download VLC 1.02 64 bit and try again..

EDIT: tried opening the same file with VLC 1.02 64-bit and VLC crashes everytime!

 

[KnightWRX]

Mplayer OS X Extended is fine. And with all the keyboard controls and logging Mplayer offers, it's definitively the superior choice.

Not to mention it at least as a good Icon that doesn't look like total crap on my dock. Seriously, a cone...

 

[jon08]

So if you want to play .avi, .wmv and other type of unsupported types of video in QT with WMV + Perian installed, you'll always have to wait for them to convert those vids, and only then will you be able to watch them?

 

[OllyW]

if their powerful rise continues they will dictate which formats and codecs are 'allowed' on the web, there will be no need to have anything besides QT. i presume this is the dream they are working towards. why should they give a damn about VLC and all the moaning on these boards, they will steamroll, destroy and/or swallow all competition and all 3rd party stuff.

Is it possible to "dictate which formats and codecs are 'allowed' on the web" when you've only got a 3.5% market share?

 

[50548]

Perian's latest release from today...

"Plays AVI, FLV, and MKV file formats
MS-MPEG4 v1 & v2, DivX, 3ivx, H.264, FLV/Sorenson Spark, FSV1, VP6, H263i, VP3, HuffYUV, FFVHuff, MPEG1 & MPEG2 Video, Fraps, Windows Media Audio v1 & v2, Flash ADPCM, Xiph Vorbis (in Matroska), and MPEG Layer II Audio
AVI support for: AAC, AC3 Audio, H.264, MPEG4, and VBR MP3
Subtitle support for SSA/ASS and SRT"

Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

 

[homsar]

Perian's latest release from today...

Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

Hahaha funny.

 

[RedTomato]

Plex does all of this plus so much more.

Thanks - I didn't know Plex could adjust subtitle timings.

I'll have to check out Plex, Mplayer Extended, and MOVIST over the Xmas holidays. Nice to see subtitle support on OSX is moving forwards.

 

[weckart]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:

Finally, we have a few issues, since Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why.

That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:

You should have dug a little deeper before jumping to conclusions. Apple's 'blocking' consists of not listing VLC on apple.com/downloads. according to one of developers, who emailed osnews.com.

That is all.

 

[dyn]

You should have dug a little deeper before jumping to conclusions. Apple's 'blocking' consists of not listing VLC on apple.com/downloads. according to one of developers, who emailed osnews.com.

That is all.

In other words: the story is completely different. The only way of describing this I can think of would be "epic fail". The problem with this is that people will not take VLC seriously any more because the story might be completely different the following day. Idiots.

 

[jon08]

So if you want to play .avi, .wmv and other type of unsupported types of video in QT with WMV + Perian installed, you'll always have to wait for them to convert those vids, and only then will you be able to watch them?

Anyone?

 

[VanNess]

You should have dug a little deeper before jumping to conclusions. Apple's 'blocking' consists of not listing VLC on apple.com/downloads. according to one of developers, who emailed osnews.com.

That is all.

Thanks for the update and clarification. I was aware that I was writing based on pretty sparse information, which is why I qualified the allegation with "if true."

 

[KnightWRX]

Perian's latest release from today...


Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

Perian is total crap. It's a stop gap measure for people who just won't let go of Quicktime. Seriously, I don't want to wait 10 minutes each time I want to watch a mkv because Quicktime as to load the entire thing in memory before it starts playback.

I don't know why you keep bringing it up when people have suggested much better quality alternatives that can actually start playing back an mkv file without having loaded it entirely.

So if you want to play .avi, .wmv and other type of unsupported types of video in QT with WMV + Perian installed, you'll always have to wait for them to convert those vids, and only then will you be able to watch them?

Not, only unindexed formats, from their FAQ (which you didn't bother to look at) :

Why does it take so long for MKV to load?

QuickTime expects to know about the entire movie when playing it, but that's not possible with many formats, including MKV and MPEG. Ask Apple to support seeking without an index if you'd like this to go away!