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mrat93

macrumors 68020
Dec 30, 2006
2,289
3,058
So far I see no evidence that this is anything other than 3D TV all over again.
Are you talking about VR or AVP? I’ve seen zero evidence supporting this idea, aside from similar comments as yours.

VR has already long-outlived the few years where 3D TVs were a thing, and it’s only getting better in time. In what world does VR die similarly to 3D TVs? How many people own/use VR headsets compared to those who owned/used 3D TVs?

Like, I get that you can compare them, because 3D or something, but there’s really no comparison otherwise. 3D TVs are long-dead, and VR will continue to grow.
 

Pixelryan

macrumors member
May 10, 2010
38
28
Washington
I can't help but cringe at the thought of them explaining how to use it and people acting surprised even though we all saw the videos that explain all this stuff already.
 

mrat93

macrumors 68020
Dec 30, 2006
2,289
3,058
For a lot of people, the comfort factor is going to quickly outweigh any other concern. Once that's out of the way though, there are other very serious limitations and issues to consider.
It’s tough for people — especially VR newbies — to make that decision in 30 minutes. I think most people will be impressed enough to think “I want this” despite the weight. Cost is a different factor though.

I think that it takes actually bringing it home and setting it up for people to realize, “this is cool, but all things considered, will I actually use this regularly?”
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,102
32,523
It’s tough for people — especially VR newbies — to make that decision in 30 minutes. I think most people will be impressed enough to think “I want this” despite the weight. Cost is a different factor though.

I think that it takes actually bringing it home and setting it up for people to realize, “this is cool, but all things considered, will I actually use this regularly?”

You nailed it

I think most everyone who's tried some VR stuff (myself included) gets into it enough and wowed enough to use it for a while (much more than 30 mins)...

...it's days or weeks later when you start hesitating to "put that thing on" and start getting more annoyed with your face getting hot or your eyes getting tired, etc ... or maybe just realizing it isn't really that useful or great (relative to alternatives)

It's sort of a death by a thousand cuts thing, and in the AVP case, there will be a lot of $3500 paperweights in the months ahead
 

deckard666

macrumors 65816
Jan 16, 2007
1,177
1,162
Falmouth
For most it’s just a question of cost… at this price regardless 99.9 % of people will say nope , when it’s less than 1000 we will see the figures climb.

I mean if I had a spare 3.5k I’d buy one JUST for movie watching And the occasional flight Right now
 
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AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,024
It’s tough for people — especially VR newbies — to make that decision in 30 minutes. I think most people will be impressed enough to think “I want this” despite the weight. Cost is a different factor though.

I think that it takes actually bringing it home and setting it up for people to realize, “this is cool, but all things considered, will I actually use this regularly?”
I think Mark Cuban summed up VR pretty well years ago. He said something to the effect of "You put it on, you think wow, this is pretty cool, then you take it off, and never care about it again."

It's an accurate take for how most people feel about it, and it's really only this crowd that is trying hard to convince themselves to like it that may go further with it...but that's only if they can tolerate it.
 

AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,024
You nailed it

I think most everyone who's tried some VR stuff (myself included) gets into it enough and wowed enough to use it for a while (much more than 30 mins)...

...it's days or weeks later when you start hesitating to "put that thing on" and start getting more annoyed with your face getting hot or your eyes getting tired, etc ... or maybe just realizing it isn't really that useful or great (relative to alternatives)

It's sort of a death by a thousand cuts thing, and in the AVP case, there will be a lot of $3500 paperweights in the months ahead
It's why I laugh when people throw numbers at me like 20 million VR headsets sold. 1) 20 million is not a mass market product at all, and 2) how many of those go into a drawer sitting on top of a bed of 5W adapters after 2 weeks?
 

AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,024
Are you talking about VR or AVP? I’ve seen zero evidence supporting this idea, aside from similar comments as yours.

VR has already long-outlived the few years where 3D TVs were a thing, and it’s only getting better in time. In what world does VR die similarly to 3D TVs? How many people own/use VR headsets compared to those who owned/used 3D TVs?

Like, I get that you can compare them, because 3D or something, but there’s really no comparison otherwise. 3D TVs are long-dead, and VR will continue to grow.
Where do you see growth in VR? I really haven't seen any. When a new one comes out, it sells to the same handful of people who already have one or two sitting in a drawer somewhere, soon to be followed by the new one. The lack of use and engagement leads to a lack of content, and the lack of content is the real indicator of growth. There isn't any. It's as stale as stale can be. AVP was never meant to be a VR device, but they couldn't make the AR device they wanted to, so they had to ship the AR experience inside VR hardware, which is ultimately going to drag it down to the depths with every other VR product.
 

jumpcutking

macrumors 6502
Nov 6, 2020
300
182
loved your impressions of the demo, thanks.

I will say this.. you were in a brightly lit Apple Store (I think that definitely helps with the crispness of the pass-through), but at home I use it in rooms that are only moderately lit and have never experienced the flash bang taking it on and off. Guess now I will have to take it into work and test it there :)
My eyes were blinded. lol.
 

StarbucksCoffee

macrumors newbie
Nov 18, 2020
14
7
The Netherlands
Having just completed a demo, I have no shortness of ideas.

The demo was brief and every time I tried to explore beyond the demo restrictions. The sales person must like let me help you let me guide you. Get a chance to explore some of the things I wanted to, but I thought all in all this is one of the best deals demonstrations I have ever seen of a complex product.

The used the machine to gauge my lens prescription and it was flawless didn’t share prescription information just to QR codes so they could lock in the right type of lenses to magnetically attach to the device.

I will say the field of view in normal every day operations the home screen, the app space and workflow was pretty bad. When you’re in a massive experience, such as a video or an environment, the field of view becomes much better. The live view is un obstructed by the dithering or blur effects of the field of view, but I will say reading text in Safari was extremely harmful for my eyes. Tried moving Window back. Try the window closer tried tricking them window and well text is Crisp the one or two sentences you’re focusing on everything else just seems to be almost crisp but not crisp enough so it hurt my eye is trying to focus on it cause it something I could focus because my eyes would have to move that location and I very much read differently, consuming more text than normal person would as their eyes scan.

I had some interesting alignment issues and I could see where a lot of people have pressure on their brow and then eventually becomes pressure everywhere noses and cheekbones and such.

I had some interesting odd artifacts when I was in normal app mode. The very corner of borders had this kind of red blue outline, shimmer shatter thing on the very very edges of the screen or the bounding box of the app. Again, I think that spatial photos were almost fake 3-D like you can kinda tell it kind of 3-D but remind me more of a holographic, print out where you can tilt a little little bit kinda see how a little three object is trying to be there, but it was extremely compressed really really bad.

Now the 3-D spatial video, unbelievable how you could see everything and you could move and you moved like you were in the scene and you really felt like you were there present. The video capturing might be a little bit compressed and I know a lot of people said it’s a square experience, but you really felt like it didn’t matter what the dimensions were cause you were in the scene.

Seeing spatial video recorded by an iPhone 15 was unnecessarily smaller than the actual video, but it definitely felt the same. Definitely felt a little bit more sharper and less compressed.

Now the demo they walk you through they show you a trailer of the 3-D movie and that trailer was again extremely compressed but you could see the 3-D dimensions and it felt almost right.

The immersion Apple experiences all they were phenomenal. They definitely took you into the scene and you fell like you were there 180° filled of view. I noticed I couldn’t see much of the floor, but I could see a lot of the ceiling and I didn’t have any artifacts and my field of view was crystal. Clear 180° a lot sharper and a whole better experience than looking at safari. Now because it’s a 3-D lens you can kind of see some distortion you’re like there was a scene where people were dancing and they kinda see their hands are a little bit distorted as they were dancing because of how the 3-D langues captures and I’m sure the industry will fix many of these issues.

I will say I took the headset off wrongly and it fell apart magnetic stuff fell all over the place oops. But I did notice when I took the headset off. It was a blinding light.

so when you use the headset, your eyes automatically adjust to the darkness if you will of the displays, not that their intentionally dark because they’re bad quality, but I think they’re intentionally darker because that way you can view the screen longer without damaged to your eyes and your eyes automatically adjust so it was definitely a high definition HDR display.

However, it really felt like a flash bang went off when I took the headset off and was in the store outside of the headset.

The Atmos sound pods are fantastic of course being in Apple AirPod Max user I was disappointed to find out that it isn’t supported on the headset. Although I have seen some of yours at attempt to use the AirPod maxes with the current headset and fan that it doesn’t fit.

The controls became intuitive within within 20 minutes, and I was mind blown how easy it was. I kept turning my head to point at things supposed to rolling my eyes around the screen until I got used to it. a lot of the features such as seeing a face come into an immersion view is a little bit different than what they showed during the demonstrations on their product pages and in the keynote. It’s like a thin film, overlay on top of everyone that kind of keeps you in the immersion but you kind of see them and it if you keep looking at them, they come up clear and focus but they never come truly 100% into your immersed environment.

I think that this is a phenomenal product and has a lot of potential and I look forward to the second generation where I may make a purchase at that time. In the meantime, I did take home MedQuest three because at least it was cheaper and has a wide range of games and experiences in it that the vision pro does not.

I will say Apple is trying to showcase this product as an entertainment product. They didn’t focus on game development and boarding some AAA titles or some cool VR experiences in games. They could find themselves being great video gaming system if they chose to support real 3-D environments, with the pro or maybe a max chip powering the immersive 3-D environments. However, they’re trying to make it seem like you need infinite displays will not being able to do a lot with the device.

I left not feeling like I was being sailed too, but have a good demonstration of the product. At least a decent demonstration. The sales guy wasn’t able to answer some mechanical questions I was able to answer more of my consumer level questions and all and all it was a good experience.

I was very pleased that Apple wasn’t forcing a sale. Instead, they left you with the ability to purchase on your own time. Here’s an email scan the QR code and then the demo was concluded. But they are definitely shoveling people in and shoveling them out because they only give you 30 minutes 20 minute demo and five minutes on each tail to set up the device collect the information and prepare the experience or reset the experience for the next person.

at the end of the day, it’s a phenomenal product, but it is not worth anyone purchasing it for $3500. It’s very expensive, very heavy, and still very glitchy… However, if one of my clients wants to build an apple vision pro app then I would be, open to developing an app and building with this experience. I will say the presumer version of this that we all expect to come out in 6 to 8 months or maybe a year or two from now will be a more stable version and I’d recommend people to buy that and wait for that to come out.

But if you have $3500 to spend and your OK with a lot of the downfalls of the new technology, go for it.

because Apple is trying to make this in AR experience as opposed to a VR experience expected it to be more flawless now it was very intuitive and I learned to use it but seeing through it, it took a lot of me to undo and refocus in from using my peripheral vision, all the time to focusing in on a small part of the screen, and I don’t think I could ever do work in this thing. I don’t think I can write code in this, I don’t think I could write documents in this, I don’t think I could design in this… I might add it in it, I might do some tests in it, I might use some of the virtual experiences, but that’s all I can think of for now.

If you have timeslots available for the demo at your Apple Store, I strongly recommend that everyone try it out as it is 100% the future of computing and it won’t be long before laptops iPads go away in place of a more AR augmented reality, spatial computing experience.

my thoughts,

Also, I apologize. Many of this is text to speech because apparently the mobile version of Safari is broken a little bit and it deletes multiple letters when you try to hit the backspace as opposed to just wanted at a time. God love beta versions of the OS.
I'm in a coffee place right now and read your (very detailed!) comment while drinking my coffee! Thank you for sharing this, very insightful!

I agree to waiting for the next-gen. With all the feedback that Apple is collecting right now, I'm sure the next Apple Vision (Pro) will be an instant-buy for me.
 

pugxiwawa

macrumors 6502
Nov 10, 2009
481
1,082
I can't help but cringe at the thought of them explaining how to use it and people acting surprised even though we all saw the videos that explain all this stuff already.
Why? It's a brand new UI, definitely takes some time to get used to. And if you don't look at the things the right way, it's really a struggle.
 
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InfoTime

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2002
500
261
I think Mark Cuban summed up VR pretty well years ago. He said something to the effect of "You put it on, you think wow, this is pretty cool, then you take it off, and never care about it again."

It's an accurate take for how most people feel about it, and it's really only this crowd that is trying hard to convince themselves to like it that may go further with it...but that's only if they can tolerate it.
That's how I feel. I bought a PSVR the day it came out. Used it a bit for a month, then it sat unused for a couple of years. I got interested again and sold it and bought an Oculus 2 (I think). It was cool too, but I returned it before the 30 days were up as I figured it would gather dust like the PSVR did.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,102
32,523
That's how I feel. I bought a PSVR the day it came out. Used it a bit for a month, then it sat unused for a couple of years. I got interested again and sold it and bought an Oculus 2 (I think). It was cool too, but I returned it before the 30 days were up as I figured it would gather dust like the PSVR did.

Same

I've done with this with Oculus, Quest 1, 2 and 3, HP Reverb, Index, PSVR2
(I'm forgetting one or two more)

I've stopped buying at this point
 

doelcm82

macrumors 68040
Feb 11, 2012
3,796
2,808
Florida, USA
That doesn’t make it a scam, that is literally how sale demos work. Apple did the same with the Apple Watch. It doesn’t mean it isn’t an impressive product. I’m in the UK, we don’t have it here, but i will do the demo if and when they bring Vision Pro here. I’m not even sold on VR or AR, but if anyone can do it, it’s Apple.

That's about as wrong of a take as you could muster. Apple could easily offer no demos, and force people to pay full price up front just to try the thing and sate their curiosity. And only a fraction of those people would go through the hassle of returning it, so they would win in the end if they went that route.

Though personally I believe AVP will have a high return rate and is expensive to restock, so Apple wants to minimize returns, and thus offers the demos.
My comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Sent from Apple Vision Pro.
 
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sphark

macrumors member
Oct 30, 2012
95
169
This isn’t something you can really evaluate in 30 minutes, especially if you’re new to VR tech. I’ve owned headsets from the original Rift, to Quest 3, to AVP — and I’m still not sure if I want to keep this.

For a product that “isn’t designed for the masses” and isn’t expected to have super high sales, it seems like Apple is putting a lot of effort into pushing sales and demos.

I think its biggest selling point is watching media on a giant screen — but my gripe with that is the FOV of the headset. If I make a video larger than my 65” TV, the picture extends outside of the FOV of the headset for each one of my eyes, and I can see the distortion in my peripherals.

That being said, I’m still really tempted to keep it — but I think for this generation, I might just end up buying a nicer OLED TV and waiting for v2.
Agree with you on the FOV, which is why I will likely return it and wait for the next model.
 
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CIA

macrumors 6502a
Jun 17, 2003
659
475
Does anyone know if during the 30 minute try out you get to do the dinosaur demo thing? Because that app, while basic, is amazing.
 
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sphark

macrumors member
Oct 30, 2012
95
169
Does anyone know if during the 30 minute try out you get to do the dinosaur demo thing? Because that app, while basic, is amazing.
I would assume so. This was the first thing I did after I set mine up. Was blown away… couldn’t keep my jaw off the floor, and I’ve been using the Quest 2 and Quest 3
 
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Blackstick

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2014
1,249
6,046
OH
Does anyone know if during the 30 minute try out you get to do the dinosaur demo thing? Because that app, while basic, is amazing.
I didn't do the dinosaur one but I got one with rhinos that blew my mind.
 
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Osxguy

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2010
200
289
Keizer Oregon
hahahah ..

TMI but this was the episode I knew I was gay.... Thank you to Wil Wheaton.. anywho.. this was the future I was promised.. and the Apple Vision Pro is what we got..
I'm getting some TNG "The Game" vibes here
57311161951_0.jpg
 
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Will Tung

macrumors newbie
May 11, 2020
13
18
Going for a demo Friday PM. Excited to try it!
Let me know if you'd be willing to Airdrop the sample spatial videos they show, to your phone (with their permission, of course) during the demo and share the file with us
 
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