I hope you're right. And I also hope you keep on thinking the same way after using Vista for a couple of months and installing some software programs on it. That would change my point of view, for sure.
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Vista Impressions (and comparison to OSX) (56k warning)
- Thread starter Chone
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I hope you're right. And I also hope you keep on thinking the same way after using Vista for a couple of months and installing some software programs on it. That would change my point of view, for sure.
Yuck. I think it's maybe the worst design theme in an OS ever.
To the person who said it "makes me feel drunk," I agree with that sentiment.
Well I've been using XP for almost 3 years on my main PC, not one reinstall and it still runs smooth as ever (I can probably count the spyware and virus I've gotten with the fingers of one hand and most of that was deliberate, meaning I got the spyware knowing I was getting it), XP has been on my intel macs since day one (I got the MBP around 4 months back maybe and the Mac Pro, hmm, maybe 2 months?) and they are still rock solid, so I don't think Vista will give any trouble just like OSX has for years (except maybe the earlier days of OSX when frankly, it sucked big time and was a slug of an OS)
Update: I installed a game to see how it would run (F.E.A.R.) the games manager automatically detected the game and downloade ESRB ratings and the cover which was a nice touch I think, the game installed and ran fine and performance was good as well (though not as good as XP, I can't even overclock my card in Vista), maybe I'll compare to XP later on but its definitely playable on Vista.
I can't wait to get my 6800XT to see how it speeds up Aero and finally be able to compare games between XP and Vista decently.
Does Vista do some screen blinking sometimes like XP does? For example, (all of XP PCs I used do this), when you move a document file from the desk top to My Document folder (alias folder on desktop), the screen blinks quickly. ---> I feel this is very un-elegant and un-smooth.
After boot up and as Windows is launching various background software, sometimes it blinks again right around all the background programs have up and running. ---> I feel this is also very un-elegant and un-smooth.
Oh, another thing. When you are using Windows as a standard user, you cannot install any update (except for internet plug in)--I hope Vista fixes that by allowing the similar option under Mac OS X (I can install program by entering the admin name & password under OS X).
After boot up and as Windows is launching various background software, sometimes it blinks again right around all the background programs have up and running. ---> I feel this is also very un-elegant and un-smooth.
Oh, another thing. When you are using Windows as a standard user, you cannot install any update (except for internet plug in)--I hope Vista fixes that by allowing the similar option under Mac OS X (I can install program by entering the admin name & password under OS X).
No, there is no flickering, at least not when the interface is handled by the GPU, it is all very smooth, I think those are bugs related with software rendering. I can't tell you about standard users as I only run an administrator account and thats what I've always used on XP as well but on Thurrott's review of Vista said UAC brought some pretty cool changes to standard users, something along the lines of inputting administrator credentials but I'm not sure, I didn't pay much attention there.
I've been using Windows Sidebar and honestly, it blows Dashboard away (at least for me it does) I'm actually using widgets (okay gadgets, totally different things
) now, the sidebar is very inobstrusive and its only on sight when it needs to be, widgets are easy to attach and detach and overall its very useful, need to do some quick calculations on say photshop? Easy, press on sidebar button, detach calculator, do your needed operations with calculator always on top while looking at the data on the photoshop window, attach it back to the sidebar and forget about it, same goes for currency, length and other kind of conversion, the notes gadget can be very useful as well and all is very useful to use and put in and out of your sight seamlessly and actually lets you use gadgets and work on your application without leaving one out of sight.Ironically THIS actually feels like a dashboard and it just blows Apple's implementation away, this is one feature that after using it well I can honestly say completely blows OSX's implementation away.
Man working on Vista is getting so easy its hard to go back to XP, there are a LOT of features in Vista and everything is just pleasing, like Microsoft puts it, it allows you to create a emotional relationship with your computer and as such, working on it is more fun and more pleasant.
The upgrade has been really worth my while, the plethora of new features and more pleasant interface all around makes Vista one great system, I'll probably stick to WinXP when I need to run a game (and even that will be temporarily) but I think I'll start doing my serious work here, everything works fine and workflow is optimized with all the new features, seriously its amazing.
I've never been this excited about an OS since OSX or when I installed and used Linux (Ubuntu) for the first time.
This drives me nuts. The stinking Intel macs are great, but man...I still need to use software from Classic and I really want the power of the intel core 2 duos to drive that stuff. But that's not a Leopard problem, more of an intel mac problem. A mac system problem nonetheless.
Are there any classic emulators for Macs that will run on the intel macs?
The blurry behind the glass stuff means it takes the eye longer to scan the screen and locate what it wants to read. This could become very tiring for people sat in front of computers all day and I agree with many others - what is the point? The 3-D shuffling of windows looks good but in practice is this any easier or better than the Command Tab that you can do in OS X or Windows XP. If the whole system slows down and makes a big song and dance about doing it then I suspect the answer is no, it's just eye candy with a limited function.
You are not supposed to try to read whats behind it, its supposed to give a flashy look and more depth to the way windows look, the whole point about glass is not being able to read whats behind, otherwise your mind would be processing data you are not supposed to be reading, it can become extremely distracting, hence glass.
In any case it can be turned off and customized...
I do agree about 3d shuffling of Windows, it looks good but not nearly as functional as Expose and I still find alt+tab and the taskbar better for finding and managing Windows.
See, legacy support is the number one thing that PISSES ME OFF about Vista. Divorcing Classic from the system was the number one GREAT THING about OS X, and Vista would be much better off if it'd just start lopping off backwards compatibility past a certain point. And honestly, OS X has been out for five years now. If you're still using Classic apps, there's something wrong here. Likewise, if you're still running 80's Windows apps in Vista, you should probably be punched in the face.
Actually what pisses me off is how disingenuous the whole argument is, since none of MS's operating systems have had 100% legacy support. Applications keep breaking on every release but somehow they manage to keep this idea that they are completely backwards compatible.
Until the x86 change, Apple legacy support has been far better than Windows legacy support, and considering that they've only dropped it after their _second_ CPU architecture change is frankly amazing.
If you have an application that was written for Win 3.1 or Classic, you really need to consider it abandoned and look for an alternative. You've had 10 / 5 years to figure that out by now.
Insistence on, what is now, a ridiculous backward compatibility policy is what is keeping Windows as insecure and crash prone as it is.
And yes, when I say crash prone, I do mean from my experience using Windows XP at work. Stability wise it is better than 3.1 / 95, and much worse than NT/2000. NT 3.51 was bulletproof, and its been downhill since.
Since that's the price they're paying for pretending to be backwards compatible (specifically absolute destruction of the HAL and security rings so poorly written games could directly access hardware), I definitely prefer a system that makes decent design decisions instead.
Microsoft needs to do what Apple did and make a clean break. All the problems with development and cancelled features have shown that.
Amen. They're already giving away VPC for free, so just include it with the OS, as well as earlier versions of Windows and run older apps in a VM sandbox.
B
This occurred to me after I wrote my diatribe--
The irony is they already had the clean break and released it with NT. It had so much of what they are trying to gain now -- an amazing security model. rock solid stability. robust networking. platform independence. well organized codebase. reasonable legacy support.
NT even had me salivating over the details of its OS design. I dumped OS/2 to use it instead.
But rather than work with that and move forward, they made the decision to practically throw it away and move forward with the 9x codebase instead. I wonder how many people are wandering the halls of Microsoft today cursing that decision...
And OS/2 is probably why they won't even consider it.
One of the things that killed OS/2 was its ability to run Win32 apps, albeit poorly, in a sandbox.
B
Well I added the OSX comparison shots (check first page), as far as the four initial features discussed I think they are (for me)
Aero~Aqua (that means they are more or less the same, with some advantages for one and others for other)
Sidebar>>Dashboard (Sidebar is amazing compared to Dashboard, I've never used widgets ever but I'm starting to use Gadgets more and more everyday)
Windows Search=Spotlight (at the end of the day, they will both do the same thing just as effectively)
Flip3D<<<Expose (Just like Dashboard is a useless novelty I never use compared to Sidebar, Flip3D is the same, a useless eyecandy-filled novelty that does not work half as well as Expose, I never use it while Expose is an integral part of my OSX experience)
There are a few other OSX nods in Vista but nothing that screams "blatant rip off".
Aero~Aqua (that means they are more or less the same, with some advantages for one and others for other)
Sidebar>>Dashboard (Sidebar is amazing compared to Dashboard, I've never used widgets ever but I'm starting to use Gadgets more and more everyday)
Windows Search=Spotlight (at the end of the day, they will both do the same thing just as effectively)
Flip3D<<<Expose (Just like Dashboard is a useless novelty I never use compared to Sidebar, Flip3D is the same, a useless eyecandy-filled novelty that does not work half as well as Expose, I never use it while Expose is an integral part of my OSX experience)
There are a few other OSX nods in Vista but nothing that screams "blatant rip off".
Vista is certainly a copy of OS X. Everybody knows that!
Its logical to copy features from other OSes. I don't blame Microsoft for that. I blame Microsoft for its inability the last 20 years to innovate!
They spend 4 billion Dollars a year in research and haven't made a single innovation!!!
Microsof lives by copying the others and implementing the copied features in their own way...
Vista is just a slightly better XP. It has a nicer front end. Its not a new interface! When the user finds his way through this front-end, the same old dialogues appear! There are no interface concepts, nothing...
If someone would like to make a list of all the features Microsoft copied this time then:
Make no mistake, behind this front-end, there are still Dlls, the Registry and the same old i386 architecture design!
NOTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED!
There are some nice features but that doesnt make for the 6 years of waiting
Please don't also forget that the 64bit version of Vista is pretty much unusable! Just read Paul Thurrots Review!!!
If someone still doesn't see OS X in advantage, then he/she has a real problem!
Its logical to copy features from other OSes. I don't blame Microsoft for that. I blame Microsoft for its inability the last 20 years to innovate!
They spend 4 billion Dollars a year in research and haven't made a single innovation!!!
Microsof lives by copying the others and implementing the copied features in their own way...
Vista is just a slightly better XP. It has a nicer front end. Its not a new interface! When the user finds his way through this front-end, the same old dialogues appear! There are no interface concepts, nothing...
If someone would like to make a list of all the features Microsoft copied this time then:
- Windows Search ---- Spotlight
- Windows Explorer ------ Finder
- Gadgets ----- Widgets
- Flip 3d ------- Expose
- Windows Calendar ----- iCal
- Windows Mail ------ Mail
Make no mistake, behind this front-end, there are still Dlls, the Registry and the same old i386 architecture design!
NOTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED!
There are some nice features but that doesnt make for the 6 years of waiting
Please don't also forget that the 64bit version of Vista is pretty much unusable! Just read Paul Thurrots Review!!!
If someone still doesn't see OS X in advantage, then he/she has a real problem!
Lipstick on a pig
The "Lipstick on a pig" one reminds me of a disturbingly entertaining Information Week cover from several months ago. Maybe it should be recycled when the time comes for a "real-world Windows Vista security review" ...
I don't post here often, so maybe you can overlook my attitude. Sorry to start off with...
Vista really does = teh Shiny®. It is a fisherman with a dazzling lure, trying to catch a large-mouth bass. People will bite, but it's not what they think it is.
Vista is flamingos in the lawn.
Plastic covers on the couch.
Gold leafed picture frames of the prom.
Faux fur.
Lipstick on a pig.
Cubic zirconium wedding rings.
New car-scented candles.
A postcard mailed from home.
Your weird cousin _____________.
A stirring rendition of Mama, a Boo Boo by Belafonte.
Vista: look away.
The "Lipstick on a pig" one reminds me of a disturbingly entertaining Information Week cover from several months ago. Maybe it should be recycled when the time comes for a "real-world Windows Vista security review" ...
Attachments
Copy? Windows Search is not a copy, similar technology (from microsoft and google) existed way before Spotlight and even then, you could say Apple copied the Quicksilver guys, who provided a similar feature for Jaguar... Apple does not own the credit to indexed searching.
Ask anyone and they will tell you the Finder in OSX sucks and Windows Explorer (especially in Vista) is much better, plain and simple, even Windows XP's explorer is better then OSX finder and you know what? They hardly have anything in common...
For the record, widgets are hardly an original idea, Konfabulator had them way before Tiger and Dashboard is suspiciously rather similar looking to Konfabulator, why don't you call out rip off there as well? Besides, Vista does Gadgets WAY better than Tiger ever will.
Don't throw out stupid comments please and stop being such a mac drone, its not like Apple doesn't "borrow" ideas as well, prime examples are spotlight and dashboard and even the new virtual workspaces feature... I'm not criticizing Apple for doing that (its not even copying) because its great but if you are going to bash Microsoft for the same thing and praise Apple... well I think you can figure out what you are.
And Vista's UI is not just a front end... and I really hope you have used the system because otherwise I'll lose all my faith in mac drones...
And please tell me, why is OS X so superior? Why do I have a real problem when I use Windows? Do you think OSX is flawless? Do you think OSX was not once an incredibly CRAPPY system (did you ever use 10.0?), do you think OSX never crashes and never misbehaves? Do you think that in my 6 years of OSX experience I've never had to troubleshoot and reinstall the OS?
I'm sick of hearing all this anti-windows and pro-osx crap, at least be objective, seriously some of your comments just scream "mac fanboy", yeah yeah, the microsoft copy jokes are fun and all but some of your borderline on absolute stupidity and ignorance, I do all my work in Windows, why? Because many apps are either not available in OSX or just run faster in Windows.
There is this negativity on Microsoft and fanboyism on Apple that has just GOT to STOP!, why is Apple such a genious at creating fanboys not fans? I'm a diehard mac user and lover but hell, I'm not going to be an ass about anything non-apple like some of you guys are.
Honestly, you sound just as bad as the 12 year olds who discuss consoles, you have no idea how childish and downright stupid and ignorant some of you guys sound. This is macrumors.com, not macdrones.com and if you are going to give an opinion on an operating system... at least make sure you use it for ore than 5 minutes (or hey, at least USE it).
I've read that you can't save anything in Gadgets-- notes for example. That's original thinking if I ever saw it. Like a solar powered flashlight.
I am biased against M$, but mostly for their approach to business and tech. They took perhaps the most amazing tech breakthrough in human history and made it craptastic, all the while knuckling under competitors who were creating far better products. I don't respect them because instead of turning out amazing stuff, they dump onto the market things that are "good enough."
I'd rather my money go to artists who move things forward. If I could remember where it was, I'd post a link, but a former M$ employee has recently posted on his blog that inside M$, there really is a pin-up of OS X used to copy the look and feel for the new Vista UI. Gee, blatant much?
M$ is a money making machine. Hopefully their focus on their tech is getting better, now that they've had 20 years to stop pumping out half-assed garbage.
I'd rather my money go to artists who move things forward. If I could remember where it was, I'd post a link, but a former M$ employee has recently posted on his blog that inside M$, there really is a pin-up of OS X used to copy the look and feel for the new Vista UI. Gee, blatant much?
M$ is a money making machine. Hopefully their focus on their tech is getting better, now that they've had 20 years to stop pumping out half-assed garbage.
OS X has not crashed on me yet
OS X has not even had an application freeze on me yet
OS X is very easy to use
OS X is virus free
OS X has very good programs for it
OS X makes me happy
I don't care if Vista is better than OS X (probably wont be though), OS X is easy to use and offers everything that I need and want so I am very happy with my choice of switching to it from Windows.
Yes! It makes me happy too! 
You do raise a good number of fair points. At this point in time Vista is too obscure for most mac users to have gotten the chance to use it, therefore they base their judgements on the media and what is posted on the internet.
It is a very valid point the Explorer vs Finder arguement. On the whole explorer is a lot faster and has better features. Some things are done better in finder but it has to go to explorer on this one.
I have had the chance to use and I will use it again in the future as my University uses Windows and windows only applications. I do have a problem with the AERO interface but as you have said this can be turned off. I do have a problem with Flip3D (does this support dragging between the windows by the way). I do not have a problem with Microsoft releasing a better more secure OS. I hope it does become mainstream pretty quickly as I am getting really sick of XP. I will miss some of the features of Vista that were dropped, Monad or whatever it was called, look like it would have really helped to improve my windows workflow, as i currently have folder actions and custon scripts all over the place to save me time in OS X.
Vista has its place and will take over XP as the most widely used OS in the world. However it will not get me to switch or purchase a license, i will stick with my XP install in boot camp / parallels to get done the windows only things that i need windows for, i.e. Fluent, MotoGp.
Rich
Different kernel doesn't mean different architecture. It's still based on dll-hell. It's got the same install/uninstall distribution nightmares. Compatability with XP is problematic because many programs do not save under the My Documents tree, but within the program directory which UAC frowns upon.
This is a needed and long overdue upgrade. But the foundation is the same and it still sucks. Vista is not to XP what Win95 was to Win3.11 or OS X was to OS 9. It's a modern version of XP -- no more, no less.
Driver and software issues will be long forgotten when the migration is complete, but if the architecture bothered you before, don't expect that to change with Vista.
You have read incorrectly then. I use Vista at work and save notes on my sidebar all the time. And personally, I think the gadgets implementation is much more useful than widgets out of the box.
Damo