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Maybe you should try one first before you jest. I used to think fps at back is ridiculous too but not anymore.
OK accepted, my estimate might have been too conservative/wrong :)
So how did you solve the MightyMouse dilemma that seems soo ehh...cumbersome (digging a hole in your bureau, sit upside down in your chair, whatever...)
 
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What's so ridiculous about sensor at the back? Once you get over the mental block, it is a much better position than front. Even with the off-center S8 fps, I can unlock faster using single hand than one located in the front since I dont need to twist my thumb to reach the fps or need to use both hands.

Well your hands obviously work differently than mine - whenever I pick up my iPhone with one hand my thumb is always conveniently placed on the bottom of the screen, where the current sensor is.

If I pick it up with one hand with the intention of operating it with the other I have an Index finger ready to activate the sensor on the front of the phone.

Placement on the rear is unnatural in my opinion.
 
Placement on the rear is unnatural in my opinion.

I switched from a 7 Plus to an S8+ and thought similar at first, after getting used to the iPhone FPS from the 5S through to the 7 Plus. You'd be surprised how quickly your muscle memory can change with a new device. I have no problem unlocking the S8+ with the FPS. I find it works as quickly as the iPhone too, I wouldn't say one is faster or better than the other.
In saying that, I do hope both companies can get the sensor in the screen working for mass production. While for me both are easy to use, I'd prefer a sensor on the front.
 
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Well your hands obviously work differently than mine - whenever I pick up my iPhone with one hand my thumb is always conveniently placed on the bottom of the screen, where the current sensor is.

If I pick it up with one hand with the intention of operating it with the other I have an Index finger ready to activate the sensor on the front of the phone.

Placement on the rear is unnatural in my opinion.

You must be using 7. With the bigger phone, it is easier with index finger. When I take the phone out from pocket or using it one handed, my index finger resting position is always nearer to fps.
 
What's so ridiculous about sensor at the back? Once you get over the mental block, it is a much better position than front. Even with the off-center S8 fps, I can unlock faster using single hand than one located in the front since I dont need to twist my thumb to reach the fps or need to use both hands.

I also prefer it on the back
 
Consult the many patents on the subject that never were materialised.

If you think patent = ability to ship said patented design in hundreds of millions of products annually you're sadly mistaken my friend. From design, to development, to testing, to production capacity. It's not as simple as someone having an idea.

"The most brilliant idea, with no execution, is worth $20.
The most brilliant idea takes great execution to be worth $20,000,000.

That's why I don't want to hear people's ideas.
I'm not interested until I see their execution."


http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/post/ideas_are_just_a_multiplier_of.html

Besides you have no idea what Samsung, Apple, Google or Microsoft (amongst many others) have cooking their research labs, they may be trying to produce the things you originally listed.

Also I imagine the reason you want a folding design is to reduce the footprint of a device. Which is exactly what this embedded fingerprint reader tech helps achieve.
 
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If you think patent = ability to ship said patented design in hundreds of millions of products annually you're sadly mistaken my friend. From design, to development, to testing, to production capacity. It's not as simple as someone having an idea.

"The most brilliant idea, with no execution, is worth $20.
The most brilliant idea takes great execution to be worth $20,000,000.

That's why I don't want to hear people's ideas.
I'm not interested until I see their execution."


http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/post/ideas_are_just_a_multiplier_of.html

Besides you have no idea what Samsung, Apple, Google or Microsoft (amongst many others) have cooking their research labs, they may be trying to produce the things you originally listed.

Also I imagine the reason you want a folding design is to reduce the footprint of a device. Which is exactly what this embedded fingerprint reader tech helps achieve.
Compare Apple with carmakers in a real competitive market.
It is 20+ more times the size of Toyota, that has multiple model programs in multiple countries (and far more complex prod/distri)
Toy does not pile up patents in libraries, it simply works them out. And I don't know about any car that would ever recycle old designs into the market.
=> Apple with the largest R&D expenditures should accomplish more than a few things worldwide.
Stop excuses, as they are unacceptable.
 
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Compare Apple with carmakers in a real competitive market.
It is 20+ more times the size of Toyota, that has multiple model programs in multiple countries (and far more complex prod/distri)

Who cares what Toyota do, what next shall we compare Kraft Foods with Dyson? Pointless comparing across industries. It's hard enough comparing sprawling companies that are supposed to be "tech".

As an Apple user (amongst others I use like Microsoft, Samsung etc.) the thing I care about most is that they produce good products. I don't care if they have 2 or 300 products.

Toy does not pile up patents in libraries, it simply works them out.

Uh huh, sure they do buddy, coming Summer 2018, the Toyota Aerocar!!! /s

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160176256.pdf

And I don't know about any car that would ever recycle old designs into the market.

Well funnily enough the car industry has a history of "Facelift" models, so that's a pretty terrible example. One (out of hundreds) would the the BMS 5 Series F10. Which received a small upgrade in 2012 (2 years into its production) but largely looked just like the original F10, or as you would say "recycled":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_5_Series_(F10)#2012_facelift

The F10 was manufactured for 7 years.

=> Apple with the largest R&D expenditures should accomplish more than a few things worldwide.
Stop excuses, as they are unacceptable.

Yeah laptops, desktops, tablets, phones, watches, media streamers, routers, accessories from stylus to headphones. A media store for music, movies and TV, streaming for music. Producing original TV show content. A payments service. A cloud service which backs up hundreds of millions of devices each day as well as syncing between a users products. Almost 500 retails stores self owned and managed for sales, support and user training. A maps service. Software for movies, photos and office tasks. Operating systems for each of their platforms. In house programming language and file system, Push into health with ResearchKit, HealthKit and CareKit, push into AR with ARKit etc. etc.

Only off the top of my head but I counted more than a "few" things.
 
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Who cares what Toyota do, what next shall we compare Kraft Foods with Dyson? Pointless comparing across industries. It's hard enough comparing sprawling companies that are supposed to be "tech".
As an Apple user (amongst others I use like Microsoft, Samsung etc.) the thing I care about most is that they produce good products. I don't care if they have 2 or 300 products.
Uh huh, sure they do buddy, coming Summer 2018, the Toyota Aerocar!!! /s
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160176256.pdf
Well funnily enough the car industry has a history of "Facelift" models, so that's a pretty terrible example. One (out of hundreds) would the the BMS 5 Series F10. Which received a small upgrade in 2012 (2 years into its production) but largely looked just like the original F10, or as you would say "recycled":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_5_Series_(F10)#2012_facelift
The F10 was manufactured for 7 years.
Yeah laptops, desktops, tablets, phones, watches, media streamers, routers, accessories from stylus to headphones. A media store for music, movies and TV, streaming for music. Producing original TV show content. A payments service. A cloud service which backs up hundreds of millions of devices each day as well as syncing between a users products. Almost 500 retails stores self owned and managed for sales, support and user training. A maps service. Software for movies, photos and office tasks. Operating systems for each of their platforms. In house programming language and file system, Push into health with ResearchKit, HealthKit and CareKit, push into AR with ARKit etc. etc.
Only off the top of my head but I counted more than a "few" things.
Appreciate your documented response, and the aerocar is absolute nonsense (/fun) indeed.
You're right that direct comparisons across industries go wacky at some point.
But....most people here forget that Apple is bigger than many carmakers together and (to fullfill its core customer expectations) really should do more in its core markets. To fullfill its investor expectations they should probably do less...but there are broader interests than just those.
Actually a facelift is what I'd expected from a brilliant designer like J.Ive: he should know that a new design can stem from a small twist or refinement. I really do not understand what he has been doing over the last 4 years, other than denying younger design talent getting their projects into reality.
Toyota's brilliance is that they adapt and remodel exactly to each continent's customers different taste at exactly the right amount of cars. I am not saying that Apple should do that, but it reflects the relative ease of bulk logistics planning for the iPhone maker.
I am a fan of all sw-kits and Craig's insane energy across all SW initiatives, but I never asked for Music, Beats, content, TV, Maps and other services where Apple simply runs behind market leaders at cost of overall focus and money I invested in them to develop their core stuff.
 
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Actually a facelift is what I'd expected from a brilliant designer like J.Ive: he should know that a new design can stem from a small twist or refinement. I really do not understand what he has been doing over the last 4 years, other than denying younger design talent getting their projects into reality.

And IMO that's exactly what we've got. Pretty much all S versions are the equivalent of Face lifted car models. Not only do the internals get tweaked and improved, additional power in the SoC, the cameras and screens. From 6 to 6s we also got 7000 to improve structural integrity.

I'm looking forward to the next wave of iPhone design starting later this year hopefully. I imagine it will be refined over the next 3 years just as the 6 design has. Who knows possibly longer.

As far as i know the design team are very secretive and unless you have a great source the last line you wrote is nothing but conjecture.

Toyota's brilliance is that they adapt and remodel exactly to each continent's customers different taste at exactly the right amount of cars.

Certainly not in the UK, they've been declining since they hit a peak about 15 years ago.

I am a fan of all sw-kits and Craig's insane energy across all SW initiatives, but I never asked for Music, Beats, content, TV, Maps and other services where Apple simply runs behind market leaders at cost of overall focus and money I invested in them to develop their core stuff.

And on the flip side other people didn't ask for the various kits but absolutely love the Apple Music, iCloud (and its many sub-services I personally really like iCloud Backups, iCloud Photo Library, iCloud Documents and Desktop from my Mac, and Continuity/Handoff) etc. Maps has worked well for me in England and in Europe, it was also excellent in China - where GMaps was awful for me in the past.

Apple can't please everyone with all things - there is no point in being upset if they focus on some things you have no interest in. They're a company, if it wasn't popular they'd drop it (aside from more niche features like Accessibility which I hope they continue with).
 
And IMO that's exactly what we've got. Pretty much all S versions are the equivalent of Face lifted car models. Not only do the internals get tweaked and improved, additional power in the SoC, the cameras and screens. From 6 to 6s we also got 7000 to improve structural integrity.
I'm looking forward to the next wave of iPhone design starting later this year hopefully. I imagine it will be refined over the next 3 years just as the 6 design has. Who knows possibly longer.
As far as i know the design team are very secretive and unless you have a great source the last line you wrote is nothing but conjecture.
Face lifting is different from spec improvements - it would have addressed the antiquated bezel tragedy by now (which isn't solved with the intro of iPhone 8 or iPad 10")
What you call conjecture is derived by logical concatenation of available information:
Apple has many talented designers that that do pilots every day (the opposite would mean they are hanging around or do obsolete things which is hardly plausible)
Then, with so few new designs actually introduced on the market, it must be that what they do actually gets stuck, disapproved, denied, or blocked otherwise in the development pipeline.
As an example, take Marc Newson, who was an arrived designer before entering Apple. He is there for a couple of years. There isn't a single design that can be attributed to him (name a example...)

The diversification into non-core things shouldn't come at cost of core business, core quality.
If it doesn't qualify to be "the best in its category" (though it will always attract customers) the Board should decide it just doesn't fit the brand - instead of degrading the brand and losing focus on core products as they do now.
 
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