You might want to open your eyes. The price the consumer pays for an iPhone is more than the cost to manufacture it. So Apple makes money by selling just the phone. Then the carrier is giving Apple the subsidization, which is pure profit to Apple. Then Apple is also getting a piece of the pie every month. So having a piece of the contract so they can offer the iPhone at a reduced price is not accurate. They are making money at every turn.
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Vodafone Gets Restraining Order On T-Mobile's iPhone Sales
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You might want to open your eyes. The price the consumer pays for an iPhone is more than the cost to manufacture it. So Apple makes money by selling just the phone. Then the carrier is giving Apple the subsidization, which is pure profit to Apple. Then Apple is also getting a piece of the pie every month. So having a piece of the contract so they can offer the iPhone at a reduced price is not accurate. They are making money at every turn.
Yes they do, they can buy a different phone, wait people in the US can do the same!!!!!!!!!!!
Yet they don't and instead bellyache.
What are you talking about? How is Apple trying to change the market? They are locking you to one carrier and not allowing competition on the service front. This is not different then what we have today. Look at GSM in the US, the phones are locked and you have to ask for the unlock code. In Europe you have stores that sell unlocked phones and they may or may not be associated with a carrier. You don’t have that here.
Apple is only making things worse and shows there is more than enough people willing to locked in and pay a premium for a phone that has some new technology in it but plenty of old as well.
And exactly what is wrong with Apple making money 12 different ways?
As long as people are willing to pay the 12 different ways, they will continue to make as much money as they can. That is why they are so popular with the shareholders. Like most companies in the US, money is king, nothing wrong with that, I work also for a profit, not just to pay the creditors.
You can buy unlocked phones from other manufacturers. You can get the subsidized price from the carrier or buy from another outfit and have it unlocked; it just costs a little more.
You need to take the rose colored glasses off.
Fine one GSM phone besides the iPhone that you cannot get the branded and unbranded version of? Maybe a new release, but in a few months you will see the unbranded version.
Chances are I'll be with o2 since they offer unlimited internet. but it's nice to know that I can swop out to my Vodaphone sim and call my girlfriend for free on a top of the line phone
Where is the 3G, GPS, etc? That is what a top of the line phone has.
I’m all for a company making money, but not in such an anti-competitive nature that Apple is. While you work for profit, if you ask for too much, what happens? You will see your job vanish and probably head over to India. Apple already has a high profit margin on the iPhone. They screwed the early adopters. So what if they got a credit at the Apple store. They still paid too much and Apple is making more money still when they use that credit, as Apple makes money on those goods.
Where is price competition in the Apple equation?
Then don't buy one.
I understand competition laws, entirely. I support them. But I surely do not support the concept that we are all a bunch of dumb bunnies who need to be protected from ourselves, which is how this court's decision reads to me.
Everywhere. Do you seriously believe that Apple doesn't have to compete?
Also, understand that "anticompetitive" is a term with real meaning. It has yet to be demonstrated to me how Apple has thwarted competition in any market in which they participate.
hmmm
Interesting POV. You're very right; it's inconceivable that Apple would walk into Europe without an advance plan. (Maybe the Apple of the early 90's, but not today.)
I do wonder though: If Apple is forced to open the iPhone in Europe, what level of service/support would one expect from other carriers? It's not Apple's way to leave such matters open to too much chance, so I'd expect that there would have to be some amount orientation for employees of the other carriers to provide proper support from their ends. Remember, the vast majority of people purchasing iPhones aren't the 'complain about a closed dev environment/jailbreak my iPhone' crowd. The vast majority are general consumers who simply want their stuff to work.
I'd like to go a little bigger than the iPhone, though. If the iPhone is unlocked what do people think will be the effect on other phone manufacturers and on carrier rates? How do you think Nokia will respond? Since the iPhone is way more popular with the general populace than Blackberry, Blackjack and the like, do you think it's usability with multiple carriers will drive down data plan prices?
Apple took a gamble.. they could have released the iphone and had it bomb completely.. sell fewer than the Newton
Of course now they know that it isn't going to bomb.. sales are going very well. That means they can take a longer view. If they're forced to unlock it in europe well all the better.. they just opened up a market of 100 million people with no effort on their part.. and they can say to AT&T/O2 "Sorry, the nasty EU made us do it!" And you can bet that their contracts have getout clauses just in case of this eventuality.
So apple are happy however it goes. O2, Tmobile and AT&T.. probably not so happy.
Funnily enough my boss (who's real suit and talks about cost centres etc. all the time) said pretty much the above over 2 months ago. It's inconceivable that apple don't have a plan.
Interesting POV. You're very right; it's inconceivable that Apple would walk into Europe without an advance plan. (Maybe the Apple of the early 90's, but not today.)
I do wonder though: If Apple is forced to open the iPhone in Europe, what level of service/support would one expect from other carriers? It's not Apple's way to leave such matters open to too much chance, so I'd expect that there would have to be some amount orientation for employees of the other carriers to provide proper support from their ends. Remember, the vast majority of people purchasing iPhones aren't the 'complain about a closed dev environment/jailbreak my iPhone' crowd. The vast majority are general consumers who simply want their stuff to work.
I'd like to go a little bigger than the iPhone, though. If the iPhone is unlocked what do people think will be the effect on other phone manufacturers and on carrier rates? How do you think Nokia will respond? Since the iPhone is way more popular with the general populace than Blackberry, Blackjack and the like, do you think it's usability with multiple carriers will drive down data plan prices?
Easy (neither T-Mobile being the exclusive reseller, nor T-Mobile being the authorised maintenance provider is illegal or in question - just tying device and contract is):
- Apple has to provide manufacturer warranty, if it offers it
- The reseller (T-Mobile) has to provide 24 months mandatory implied warranty
- T-Mobile is the dedicated support and maintenance provider. This does not change. The question is, if the calculation still works for them (if a customer buys the phone from them and the network service elsewhere - this might not be fully considered under the current terms)
- The other network provider will support its network, it will not deal with any phone specific issues. Normally they will provide profiles or instructions for setting up particular services though. If Apple is really interested in the overall customer experience, they can certainly supply support materials to them - they do not have to.
German mobile phone operator Debitel has also lodged a complaint with Germany's telecoms regulator about T-Mobile's iPhone deal.
"It is not permissible to link the use of the iPhone exclusively to T-Mobile's network," a Debitel spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
She added that Debitel complained to the regulator last month and was now waiting for a response from T-Mobile.
A spokesman for the federal network agency said it had asked T-Mobile to respond, but declined to divulge details.
Source Yahoo news sourced from Reuters
"It is not permissible to link the use of the iPhone exclusively to T-Mobile's network," a Debitel spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
She added that Debitel complained to the regulator last month and was now waiting for a response from T-Mobile.
A spokesman for the federal network agency said it had asked T-Mobile to respond, but declined to divulge details.
Source Yahoo news sourced from Reuters
There are suckers that bought the iPhone. On my phone, I can use any playable sound file as a ringtone, not the ones that Apple is willing to sell me. I can install any app that is written for my phone; not the ones that Apple has authorized. My phone is unlocked and came that way; even if it didn’t it could be unlocked. It has WLAN as the iPhone, in fact, for nearly 2-years I have had WLAN on a phone. I have also used email on my phone for the past several years. It also has GPS and I can use Google Maps or the map software the manufacturer provides. It has VoIP built-in as well. BT 2.0 + EDR is also there. My phone can also play movies on its widescreen display. Did I mention it has 3G? In fact, for nearly two years my phones have had 3G capability. I can also add more storage capacity, up to 8GB now and will be higher once higher capacity cards are released. I also have a nifty app that will give the caller a fast busy signal; great for the people you don’t ever want to talk too.
Apple is locking people into a two-year deal on a phone they have already paid for. Then Apple makes money every month off of them and charges for some of the most basic parts of customization.
You don’t need a majority share of the market in order not to compete; you can have a small sliver of it.
Technically, my phone has almost as many cores as a MacPro.
Nokia will probably make some corrections. You will see touch screen based phones from Nokia next year, but those have been planned for quite some time. Nokia had two major smartphone platforms; S80 and S60. S60 was more open and they allowed other manufacturers to license it, where S80 was only for Nokia. S80 is basically dead and Nokia is in the middle of integrating S80 and S60 into one platform. Nokia did have a touch screen smartphone platform; S90. S90 is also being merged and will ultimately be part of S60. This was in the works long before Apple ever even announced the iPhone; they have been working on this for a few years. A major part of it was getting to the new Symbian OS and they didn’t want to go to the new OS and merge three platforms together.
So when Nokia has touchscreen phones out next year, it was not from Apple. I’m sure Nokia will take some cues from Apple, but they are entitled to as there have been plenty of Nokia designs that have been copied by others.
Also keep in mind that Apple had a goal of 10 million iPhones in a year? Every quarter Nokia sells around 100 millions phones. Smartphone wise, Nokia controls around 48% of the market and their nearest competitor earlier this year was RIM with their BlackBerry and they sold 6 million phones and had less than 8% of the market.
I don’t think data plan prices will be driven down, but will remain flat.
I'm sure the Finns have something cooking in their Nordic labs. In the run up to the initial intro of the iPhone, a buddy of mine at Nokia expressed the sentiment of some in the company: the hope that the iPhone would be released unlocked because such an act might spur a more aggressive timeline for the development of their own competing products. (Knowing Nokia, they don't want to rush out something like the HTC Touch, though.)
Nokia does hold a sizeable majority of the mobile marketshare, but are seeking a bit more name and brand recognition to go along with their marketshare. (Also the goal of their flagship stores in NYC and Chicago.) We're talking about them here as a market leader, but the general consumer is oblivious to that. They know Apple and iPhone.
It might cover the cost to manufacture but you then have to consider the Tech Support that Apple is providing as well.
As a company, Apple has the right to make "money at every turn." I would rather have a company making money so as to sustain it's existence to support their products as well as be there to stand behind their warranty.
I hope Apple says screw Germany and just pulls the iPhone. (Here comes the flames.)
BTW, why is it OK for Sony to release some movie titles exclusive to BlueRay and not be required to put it out on HD-DVD?
As a company, Apple has the right to make "money at every turn." I would rather have a company making money so as to sustain it's existence to support their products as well as be there to stand behind their warranty.
I hope Apple says screw Germany and just pulls the iPhone. (Here comes the flames.)
BTW, why is it OK for Sony to release some movie titles exclusive to BlueRay and not be required to put it out on HD-DVD?
Because you can buy the Blue-Ray Movies at different Retailers and play the movie in which ever Blue-Ray Player you want
If Apple would pull out germany? Well, I think the one who wanted to have this iPhone so bad already have one. For the rest, it is not interresting at all - under this conditions.
I think it is not much a success over here. Trust me, T-Moblie would have been the very first shouting out the amazing sales figures!
a kick up the arse for carriers and manufacturers alike
i think that, as this plays out in europe, the end result will be to separate phones from contracts and make things better for consumers.
at present, the carriers offer us 'free' or very cheap phones, but claw it all back with expensive tariffs.
because the phones are 'free' or very cheap, the perceived value of them is low, so consumer expectations of them are also low. if this changes and phone are no longer (or are less) subsidised, the phone manufacturers will have to up their game to meet the expectations that a higher price tag brings!
similarly, the carriers will no longer be able to differentiate using 'free' or exclusive phones etc. and their costs will be laid bare for all to compare on a level playing field. this means that they will have to become better value for money and improve services/network etc. etc.
i think that, as this plays out in europe, the end result will be to separate phones from contracts and make things better for consumers.
at present, the carriers offer us 'free' or very cheap phones, but claw it all back with expensive tariffs.
because the phones are 'free' or very cheap, the perceived value of them is low, so consumer expectations of them are also low. if this changes and phone are no longer (or are less) subsidised, the phone manufacturers will have to up their game to meet the expectations that a higher price tag brings!
similarly, the carriers will no longer be able to differentiate using 'free' or exclusive phones etc. and their costs will be laid bare for all to compare on a level playing field. this means that they will have to become better value for money and improve services/network etc. etc.
Heard about contracts?
Honestly how in hell do you think Apple could pull out of their contract to provide the iPhone?
In case you don't know the full picture, those telco's are playing real dirty. We'll have to wait for T-Mobile's reaction, but the current estimating is a penalty of up to 250,000 per sold iPhone, if T-mobile doesn't change. (source: SPIEGEL) Just think about it. T-mobile has said, they will counter-sue.
But what if (just a tiny little hint) T-mobile and AT&T sue Apple about the contract, making promises they couldn't hold?
And if you don't know about the German iPhone model, do me a favour - ****!
You can pick up the iPhones exclusively at the T-Punkt, T-mobile's retail chain. There is no chance to order it online (no, you can't get it via Apple or Amazon). Most Apple resellers (Gravis, Cancom) are really angry, as they are not allowed to sell it. And you don't see an iPhone close to the concurrence, when walking through those gib electronics markets (MediaMarkt, Saturn), despite them having dedicated Apple and iPod spots in their buildings.
So basically the Average Joe has to walk into these nasty T-Punkt or they are screwed. And you call that consumer-friendly?
All this whining will eventually stop when and if Apple just totally pull iPhone out of Germany. Problem solved for Germany and Apple. And you think the consumers won?
Honestly how in hell do you think Apple could pull out of their contract to provide the iPhone?
In case you don't know the full picture, those telco's are playing real dirty. We'll have to wait for T-Mobile's reaction, but the current estimating is a penalty of up to 250,000 per sold iPhone, if T-mobile doesn't change. (source: SPIEGEL) Just think about it. T-mobile has said, they will counter-sue.
But what if (just a tiny little hint) T-mobile and AT&T sue Apple about the contract, making promises they couldn't hold?
And if you don't know about the German iPhone model, do me a favour - ****!
You can pick up the iPhones exclusively at the T-Punkt, T-mobile's retail chain. There is no chance to order it online (no, you can't get it via Apple or Amazon). Most Apple resellers (Gravis, Cancom) are really angry, as they are not allowed to sell it. And you don't see an iPhone close to the concurrence, when walking through those gib electronics markets (MediaMarkt, Saturn), despite them having dedicated Apple and iPod spots in their buildings.
So basically the Average Joe has to walk into these nasty T-Punkt or they are screwed. And you call that consumer-friendly?
That would be Universal Music who wanted a cut of iPod revenue. They get a cut from Zune revenue (up to $1,00 for each one sold), and feel they are entitled to a piece of hardware revenue from all manufacturers, which is silly.