likely skipping broadwell now...
haswell mba good enough anyways; i just love having new tech
haswell mba good enough anyways; i just love having new tech
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Waiting for Broadwell MBP Thread
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Links please.
I have difficulty believing that Apple might release Skylake MBPs before October 2015 -- at the earliest.
"Theres wide-spread industry speculation around whether these traditional notebook parts will ever come to market. Industry rumors suggest that Intel may cancel Broadwell-H due to Skylake coming so soon afterwards."
That's not news; that's just rumor.
Also, a Tock delay does not directly affect the timing of the next Tock because they are done by separate design teams working in parallel. Similarly, a Tick delay doesn't directly affect the next Tick, though it may tend to indicate how difficult process shrinks are becoming.
That's not news; that's just rumor.
One of the main reasons why Intel adopted the Tick-Tock cycle was to ensure that a Tick delay (of less than a year) would have no effect on the next Tock and that a Tock delay (of less than a year) would have no effect on the next Tick.
Also, a Tock delay does not directly affect the timing of the next Tock because they are done by separate design teams working in parallel. Similarly, a Tick delay doesn't directly affect the next Tick, though it may tend to indicate how difficult process shrinks are becoming.
Still just rumors. Skylake launch in 2H can mean anything. Last year they said Broadwell before holiday season and all we got was Core M. Who says they will not repeat that for 2015? Technically releasing Skylake-Y on December 31 is still Skylake in 2H 2015.
Intel can launch Skylake on the desktop and still release Broadwell mobile with the quads for 2015. Not the update coveted but enough to change some spec numbers and move product. Then release new Skylake mobile first half of next year (or whenever) and so on with the cycle.
Is Skylake mobile confirmed? I have only seen roadmaps for the desktop chips and was not sure if mobile was part of the plan or simply assumed to be lumped into that rollout.
We all have been talking when Intel will release Broadwell and when Intel will release Skylake ! We all here to talk when Apple will have these chip in the rMBP so what if Intel releases it whenever, point is when will Apple include it in the rMBP like in how many days of Intel releasing the chips will Apple put it in their rMBP ! No one seems to be talking about that !
Brian Krzanich - Chief Executive Officer
No further delays
H2 2015
We're releasing fewer SKUs on Broadwell. The rest will come on Skylake. Look at what's being released and what isn't.
So missing that by doing something else with Broadwell would have been in the stake.
We opted to bring out these specific Broadwell SKUs for a reason.
We couldn't do all of them, so we chose which to do.
Finite number of Broadwell SKUs. Stands to reason then that Skylake SKUs will complement this. If something is missing from Broadwell SKUs, it's on Skylake
What makes sense from a margin and Cost of Goods sense? Why delay higher margin high end Skylake products?
Guess they can micro manage the release dates for the different SKUs and how many of each sort gets made keeping the fabs busy.
I'd imagine Apple would put Skylake in asap to rMBPs. Apple can't release Skylake MBPs *until* Skylake launch - I could see Apple being the company that premieres a Skylake CPU launch. I'd imagine they may have some redesigns too.
We know the release cycle for Apple has been hindered by Intel's delays, and we know roughly the cycle for the Skylake release and when Apple launches new MBPs (Mac Pros, Mac Minis are less consistent).
At earliest you're talking Q3. At latest Q4.
In terms of Intel's release plan -
They've put the higher cost Broadwell gaming CPUs out first, which isn't the normal routine. Why?
They've not put any Quad cores out - they're maybe planned 2H2015, at which point Skylake is out.
If Intel wanted to delay Skylake, why wouldn't they fully launch Broadwell? People would take that as a sign (they could also leak that Skylake was not rolling out for a while).
But instead, we have the quarterly earnings call that they can switch the fab to Skylake as and when they like. Doesn't it then make sense to get decent margin 14nm chips out first pre-Skylake (the gaming Broadwell chips) then get out the decent margin Skylake chips out?
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No, not according to news sites; according to rumor sites.
No, Intel were asked that in the earnings conference call by the Deutsche Bank analyst and both the CEO and CFO of Intel responded without directly answering the question with a clear Yes or No. The essence of what they said is that Skylake will ship whenever Skylake is ready; that Intel will not hold Skylake back in order to sell Broadwell over a longer period. They avoiding making any commitment to H2 2015.
While they don't make a definitive "It will absolutely be out by XXX date" timeline commitment, they imply that they're currently on track for Q2 2015 and don't intend to delay Skylake (although as you pointed out in another thread, that just means they'll ship a handful of SKUs by then). The wording is a bit vague, but the CEO seemed to imply they won't be further developing Broadwell.
Source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/282...-earnings-call-transcript?all=true&find=intelKrzanich said:
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No, there is no evidence of an implication that they are on track for Q2 2015. They only say that they will not delay Skylake past when it is ready, that they will not delay Skylake just to sell more Broadwell parts. They don't intend to delay Skylake does not imply that Skylake will not be delayed. It only means that management will not order a delay. It doesn't even begin to suggest that Skylake could not be delayed by low yields. Intel never intends to have low yields.
While I agree that there is always the potential for issues, I still think the implication is clear that they're currently on track.
Krzanich said:
He later says:
I'm not reading this with the same experience level you are, but it seems they're confident.
The latter quote just says that Broadwell and Skylake both use the 14nm process. It's clear that the 14nm process which held up Broadwell is not holding up and will not hold up Skylake. What keeps Intel from shipping Skylake today is that the design is not ready. Intel are still working bugs out. When Intel have Skylake steppings that don't have any serious bugs, then they can start shipping.
Intel partners already got some Skylake samples late last year. Broadwell has been ready for some time now, which is why they can announce and ship within a month in systems. The design is set--they're more likely to be actually tweaking 10nm than revisiting any architectural changes in Skylake right now.
Yields are a different thing but it's too early to conclude anything.
Yields are a different thing but it's too early to conclude anything.
No, those samples are early steppings that are not shippable. They have errata. With a Tick, the yields are what holds back shipping. With a Tock, it is the design i.e. working out the design bugs that holds back shipping. There are no significant yield issues with a new Tock such as Skylake.
The margin/COGS angle is an interesting thing in favor of Skylake coming out asap - they can then get high margin Skylake CPUs out.
How can holding back Skylake help Cost of Goods or margins?
(IDF China is April 2015. Maybe we'll see some things by then).
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Yes, I'm aware of that. Point is, the chip designs are laid out and they won't be doing any major architectural changes now. Yields and bugs during manufacturing are another thing and most likely the cause of any future delay, not the design itself that will required a lot more time outside of fabs to fix.
MacBook Pro speculations
What do you think about these speculations ?
"Macbook Pro Retina QHD+ 2015 Expected Specs.
>)Processor : Intel Skylake i7-6770HQ ( 40% Faster & 50% Power Efficient Over Haswell)
>)RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 2400 Mhz.
>)Display : Retina QHD+ (iPS/OLED 30% Power Saving!)
>)Hard Disk : 3rd-gen PCIe SSD 2.1Gbps Read Speed 1.6Gbps Write Speed.
>)Graphics Card : Intel & GTX 970 M 4GB DDR5 256Bit. (300x Faster & 50% Less pwr vs 750m)
>)Body/Looks : New Thinner Design & 3 Color Options.(Radical New Look)
>)Security : Touch ID integration.
>)Webcam : Improved Face time HD Camera 1080p @ 60fps
>)Keyboard : New Multi Color LED Backlight Keyboard.
Overall 2x Powerful than current Gen RMBP and 50% Power saving Hardware but New thinner Body will reduce room for battery so we will get about 10 to 12 Hours of Batter backup! + 30% Less Weight!
New Thunderbolt Ports : Codenamed Alpine Ridge, Intel's new Thunderbolt 3 controller will double the bandwidth to 40 Gbit/s (5 GB/s), reduce power consumption by 50%, also offering support for PCIe 3.0, along with compatibility with other protocols, including HDMI 2.0 (allowing for 4K resolutions at 60 Hz), and DisplayPort 1.2 or 1.3 (depending on final implementation), which due to the doubling of the available bandwidth will enable next-generation Thunderbolt controllers to drive two 4K displays (or Apple's separate 5K displays) simultaneously, where current controllers can only drive one. "
What do you think about these speculations ?
"Macbook Pro Retina QHD+ 2015 Expected Specs.
>)Processor : Intel Skylake i7-6770HQ ( 40% Faster & 50% Power Efficient Over Haswell)
>)RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 2400 Mhz.
>)Display : Retina QHD+ (iPS/OLED 30% Power Saving!)
>)Hard Disk : 3rd-gen PCIe SSD 2.1Gbps Read Speed 1.6Gbps Write Speed.
>)Graphics Card : Intel & GTX 970 M 4GB DDR5 256Bit. (300x Faster & 50% Less pwr vs 750m)
>)Body/Looks : New Thinner Design & 3 Color Options.(Radical New Look)
>)Security : Touch ID integration.
>)Webcam : Improved Face time HD Camera 1080p @ 60fps
>)Keyboard : New Multi Color LED Backlight Keyboard.
Overall 2x Powerful than current Gen RMBP and 50% Power saving Hardware but New thinner Body will reduce room for battery so we will get about 10 to 12 Hours of Batter backup! + 30% Less Weight!
New Thunderbolt Ports : Codenamed Alpine Ridge, Intel's new Thunderbolt 3 controller will double the bandwidth to 40 Gbit/s (5 GB/s), reduce power consumption by 50%, also offering support for PCIe 3.0, along with compatibility with other protocols, including HDMI 2.0 (allowing for 4K resolutions at 60 Hz), and DisplayPort 1.2 or 1.3 (depending on final implementation), which due to the doubling of the available bandwidth will enable next-generation Thunderbolt controllers to drive two 4K displays (or Apple's separate 5K displays) simultaneously, where current controllers can only drive one. "
>)Processor : Intel Skylake i7-6770HQ ( 40% Faster & 50% Power Efficient Over Haswell)
We haven't had benchmarks. Wouldn't want to guess. Power efficiency seems a bit high.
>)RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 2400 Mhz.
Default is currently 8GB for 12" rMBP, 16GB for 15"rMBP. Seeing as they bumped that last time, I don't see them making 32GB default. DDR4 as per Skylake.
The 12"MBA announcement will be a first glimpse at what Apple may have in store for the MBPs.
>)Display : Retina QHD+ (iPS/OLED 30% Power Saving!)
Don't see them changing the screen much with every other change going.
>)Hard Disk : 3rd-gen PCIe SSD 2.1Gbps Read Speed 1.6Gbps Write Speed.
Skylake dropped PCIe 4. Boo.
>)Graphics Card : Intel & GTX 970 M 4GB DDR5 256Bit. (300x Faster & 50% Less pwr vs 750m)
300 times faster? 300% / 3x faster maybe.
>)Body/Looks : New Thinner Design & 3 Color Options.(Radical New Look)
Thinner is possible. Color wise... who knows.
>)Security : Touch ID integration.
Nope
>)Webcam : Improved Face time HD Camera 1080p @ 60fps
Maybe
>)Keyboard : New Multi Color LED Backlight Keyboard.
We can't even get full travel keys these days. Ain't gonna be blinged up multicolor.
>Overall 2x Powerful than current Gen rMBP
Unless you're counting the GPU+CPU power, no.
> and 50% Power saving Hardware but New thinner Body will reduce room for battery so we will get about 10 to 12 Hours of Batter backup! + 30% Less Weight!
Nope. That's like wanting to have your cake, and eat it, and expecting there to be cake left.
>New Thunderbolt Ports
Hopefully. No word ehard on Alpine Ridge (and technically USB 3.1 could drive a 5K ACD).
We haven't had benchmarks. Wouldn't want to guess. Power efficiency seems a bit high.
>)RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 2400 Mhz.
Default is currently 8GB for 12" rMBP, 16GB for 15"rMBP. Seeing as they bumped that last time, I don't see them making 32GB default. DDR4 as per Skylake.
The 12"MBA announcement will be a first glimpse at what Apple may have in store for the MBPs.
>)Display : Retina QHD+ (iPS/OLED 30% Power Saving!)
Don't see them changing the screen much with every other change going.
>)Hard Disk : 3rd-gen PCIe SSD 2.1Gbps Read Speed 1.6Gbps Write Speed.
Skylake dropped PCIe 4. Boo.
>)Graphics Card : Intel & GTX 970 M 4GB DDR5 256Bit. (300x Faster & 50% Less pwr vs 750m)
300 times faster? 300% / 3x faster maybe.
>)Body/Looks : New Thinner Design & 3 Color Options.(Radical New Look)
Thinner is possible. Color wise... who knows.
>)Security : Touch ID integration.
Nope
>)Webcam : Improved Face time HD Camera 1080p @ 60fps
Maybe
>)Keyboard : New Multi Color LED Backlight Keyboard.
We can't even get full travel keys these days. Ain't gonna be blinged up multicolor.
>Overall 2x Powerful than current Gen rMBP
Unless you're counting the GPU+CPU power, no.
> and 50% Power saving Hardware but New thinner Body will reduce room for battery so we will get about 10 to 12 Hours of Batter backup! + 30% Less Weight!
Nope. That's like wanting to have your cake, and eat it, and expecting there to be cake left.
>New Thunderbolt Ports
Hopefully. No word ehard on Alpine Ridge (and technically USB 3.1 could drive a 5K ACD).
40%? Unless Skylake-H is a 6-core chip, that is wishful thinking. Comparing a Sandy Bridge dual core with a Haswell dual core, the increase in processing power over the past 4 years is just 30%.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/1659963?baseline=1293132
I think something like 10-15% will be more realistic.
The only 6-core Skylake CPUs will be for servers, with TDP over 100W and no integrated graphics.
It's not realistic.
Skylake with GT3e or the newer GT4e Iris Pro configuration. 16GB as before, maybe DDR4 but DDR3 is just fine since it's soldered on anyways. DDR4 is gobbled up by server industry right now so it may be a supply issue more than technical. 10-15% IPC increase over Broadwell/Haswell, like always.
Nvidia has a GTX 960M and 950M in the pipeline. Thermal constraints and battery life matter to Apple so these are far more likely than a 970. You might see a 970/980M on the non-Retina iMacs though if 1) Nvidia sticks around and 2) Apple updates it. Maybe a switch to AMD, maybe if they get that 20nm die shrink in time and on their next architecture.
Doubt PCI-E SSDs will change much. Same drives as before since few drive controllers are even in PCI-E yet. Same display. Same monitor quality. More or less same design. There isn't much reason to change and what you've listed would drive the price up significantly, at least into the $2700 range for a base model due to all those wishful choices. Kind of pointless to spend that much more on things that don't add much to a workflow.
It'd alienate a lot more people rather than spur them into buying something at the high-end of Apple's product line.
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Interesting, I usually make my Mac upgrades according the the Intel CPU cycle i.e. when there is a significant jump in performance/battery life etc. As a secondary I look at the Apple innovations.
I also try an make sure that I'm able to recover significant $ from selling my current notebook given that I usually get Apple care. i.e. selling with 1 year warranty still remaining provides a significant upside to recovering money.
On average this has meant that I upgraded every 2 years, however, given the delay from Intel this time around this might mean that I keep my notebook for 2.5 to 3 years. Don't know what will happen this year.